GTS or Radeon or V5 Need opinions fast!!!!

[rampage2001]

I am going to order a new card because I sold my MX and I am shipping it out soon. What is the most for your money and the most future proof, basically I want GTS performance which to my knowledge is about double of either competitor but if it is going to fall on its face when DX8 is popular and FOR SURE the radeon will easily wipe the floor with it as the GTS does to the radeon in Q3 today.. then I'll go with the ATI.

And the no TnL aspect to the V5 is more than disapointing to someone who is looking forward to playing Giants. If someone could actually have a decent arguement why the V5 is the best choice I'd like to hear it because I run a Asus A7v and they do not like Geforce cards running in AGP 4x. According to Asus' website, they recommend their own Geforce cards to not be run on anything but intel boards.

I'm stuck with AGP 2x on the MX and will most likely on the GTS also but I do not think that it affects performance much if at all.. I'm leaning more towards the GTS right now because of their enormous performance compared to the radeons offering and the even weaker voodoo. I have trouble paying more or the same and getting 50fps less in Q3A.

Give me well informed answers, try not to just cast your ballot shouting out nvidia or 3dfx.. because we all know that recounts can be hell and I want to know the voter's true intention!

Thanks in advance, im going to place an order tomorrow night.

 

[RoboTECH]

you need to list your system specs and what games you play

include your monitor type and how mcuh you care about 2d

i'll say this much, if you want a "DX8 card", then wait.

None of the cards out now are fully DX8-capable

 

[Comp10]

This is an easy one, Radeon all the way. Unlike the Geforce cards, the Radeon has the hardware to be able to take advantage of DX8, so future proof wise it's by far the best card out. In addition to that, the Radeon's 2D and 3D image quality is superior to the Geforce. And while the Radeon might not be as quite fast as the Geforce presently, it isnt that far behind (especialy in 32 bit color), and will likely catch up ground and perhaps take over the lead with DX8 and future driver releases.

 

[Edgy]

high framerates are most important thing, then get gts, no question.

I bought radeon cause I used alot of 2d time on my screen, watch tv on my computer (VCR, DVD), record stuff off cable to mpeg2 & save to cdrw. Don't play too many 1st person shooter but when I do, am satisfied with performance. Play mostly D&D or HOMM type games so VERY MUCH satisfied.

But that's just me. I don't think it is smart to purchase a graphics card solely based on how many fps it does on what game.

gluck

 

[MustangSVT]

simulation flying/racing = voodoo5

Quake 3 or some FPS = Geforce GTS

DVD, Gaming, lot of other stuff = Radeon.

first of all, Geforce does not wipe the floor with Radeon.
and Dx8 wont matter that much within this year at least.

if you must get a videocard soon then i suggest Radeon.

If money is no object to you i suggest Geforce Ultra.

 

[Looney]

Here's the cards i've had in the past 3 months and what they've changed to:

G400DH got upgraded to Creative Labs GF2 32Mb... which got upgraded to Radeon 64DDR VIVO.

Moved GF2 to my new rig, but upgraded that to Voodoo5.

So in both cases, i replaced the GF2. The GF2, although may be fast in benchmark, is a sh1tty card compare to what's out there IMO. The Radeon is the best of the bunch. Sharp, bright colors (you really do have to SEE it to believe it). The Voodoo5, although not as sharp and bright as the Radeon, shines in FSAA. FSAA is just toooooo awesome. Anybody that tells you it doesn't matter, haven't tried it. Anybody that says 'why don't you just bump your resolution higher?', well, some games you just can't... or that playing in 1600x1200, even on a 19" monitor, is just crappy. As soon as my AIW Radeon, which i've been waiting well over a month now, comes in, it's going to replace the VIVO. The voodoo5 is now my primary gaming machine, and it's just awesome.

 

[RoboTECH]

i'll have to agree with that statement.

I had a TNT2U, upgraded to a 32MB GTs, hated how texture compression looked on it so I ordered a (backordered) 64MB GTS. While waiting for it to come in (I had just sold the 32MB GTS), I picked up a 5500 from EB cuz I figured I could return it as soon as I got the 64MB GTS in.

Well, the 64MB got to me about 3 days after I installed the 5500, and I didn't want to take the thing out. Reluctantly returned it, and started using the 64MB GTS. Once I was done with the "joy" of 3dMark2000, I found the GTS to be an inferior card, so I sold it, and the 5500 resides happily inside my rig.

I don't have any direct experience with a Radeon, so I can't comment on that.

DX8 will be non-existent for awhile. Unless you plan on keeping your card awhile, ignore DX8 support. If you have a large trinitron monitor, dismiss the GTS, as it has very poor 2d on those types of monitors. If you are obsessed with benchmarking, or you have a slower CPU, then avoid the 5500. It needs a high-end CPU for it's strength to come out, and it doesn't benchmark all that well. Of course, in games, it's perfectly smooth and playable, but it doesn't have the super-high "top end speed" to tilt the benchmark averages in its favor.

 

[Deeko]

If you want more future proof, go with the Radeon. It may be a little slower than the GTS, but it has 3 texture units which will help in future games that support them, and it has DX8 that the others don't have.

 

[Looney]

If anybody's notice, i've probably been spouting a lot about the Voodoo5 lately. But that's because i'm so impressed with it. I had it for 2 weeks sitting it aside before i decided to install it (i had a GF2, so with all the hype, i wasn't even going to keep the V5, it was for somebody else). And boy, was i floored when i saw games with FSAA. I don't play too many fast shooters like Q3 or UT (occasionally UT), mainly games like Everquest... so quality, and not speed, is what i'm after.

I like the V5 so much i'm looking for another for my girlfriend's rig.

Compatibility is also a big plus for the V5. Unlike the Radeon, who's 3D is awesome too, there are just way too many incompatibility problems (at least for me). The V5 works flawless with everything i've tried, something that i can't say for the Radeon.

 

[DominoBoy]

I have to agree with everybody else. The Radeon and the Voodoo5 are better overall choices than the GTS. They have a lot more to offer. And I own a GTS, so that should tell you something. It's really a pain in the ass. I would say Radeon should be your first choice, Voodoo5 second, and GTS third.

 

[sandorski]

With the recent drop in the Voodoo5 5500's price, I couldn't help myself and ordered one today. It'll replace my 32mb Viper2 which is awesome for UT and Q3, but less so with anything else. I don't know, ever since seeing nonFSAA/FSAA comparison screenshots last spring, I just haven't been able to ignore the jaggies in all the games I play. Besides, it'll be nice to once again have a vidcard that just works properly no matter what you try to do, something that I haven't had since using my Voodoo2.

That said, if I would have stuck to my schedule of waiting for spring to upgrade my vidcard, I would've went with a Radeon. The Radeon is more DX8 future proof then any other card available, is plenty fast in games, has the best DVD feature set, excellent 2d/3d quality, and TnL. Geforce2 just seems to be too much of a compromise for me, but it screems in Q3 and 3dmark2k.

 

[StickHead]

This question has been beat into everyones face for a while now. No computer component is future proof, or one more than the other. Either of the three would be a good choice, however I am a nVidia fan so the GTS would be my first choice.

 

[Impact55]

I have a really stupid question: Does the Voodoo TV have TV out , hehe

 

[RoboTECH]

VoodooTV 200 page

 

[rampage2001]

oops

 

[rampage2001]

Thanks everybody for your input. I ordered the Radeon All In Wonder card. It is a little expensive but it looks like it has a lot of goodies and Radeon DDR performance. I hope they improve their drivers like the detonator 3 drivers.

I'm looking forward to seeing how it looks compared to ye olde MX. The deciding factor was the incompatibility with my A7V.. even Asus' own geforce cards say not recommended with anything but intel chips.

 

[nippyjun]

If you like glide games like: Deus ex, any ea sports games, rune, UT, Deep space 9 the fallen, Diablo 2, then definitely get the Voodoo5.

If you like image quality and pretty fast performance then get the voodoo5.

If you play Quake3 based games then get the Geforce

If you like a jack of all trades card with mediocre drivers and great performance then get the radeon.

 

[rampage2001]

"If you like glide games like: Deus ex, any ea sports games, rune, UT, Deep space 9 the fallen, Diablo 2, then definitely get the Voodoo5.

If you like image quality and pretty fast performance then get the voodoo5.

If you play Quake3 based games then get the Geforce

If you like a jack of all trades card with mediocre drivers and great performance then get the radeon. "

Sounds like a prop to your own buying decision.. but I'm going to rightfully defend both Nvidia AND ATI.

Everyone says the image quality on the radeon is excellent in every aspect.. I can understand a arguement for paying for a geforce over a radeon or vice versa but this V5 talk is like spitting in the wind.
Its a $180 card with no exceptional benefits besides FSAA which I personally find a unattractive feature.. I just pump up the res instead of play 800x600 in 4xfsaa. I could see using it if you have a small monitor and want smooth images without running a res thats ugly on a 15 incher. What kind of gamer or even casual user with a job that pays over $5 an hour is going to be stuck in that situation?
You get no TnL, which is just unacceptable in a card that you are paying over $50 for (editors note: I sold my MX for $60 and it easily bests the V5).. 64mb of memory that is only around 48mb in use.. the performance in Q3A, probley the most popular game recently and the most important benchmark for gaming due to the engines popularity and realizing that a card that does poorly under this engine will fall on its 3dfx face when people mimic the engine and especially expand upon it. The voodoo is lackluster in every department besides FSAA, and according to some individuals stability but I have had little problems with my MX and I have friends who find absolutely NO conflicts with the radeon. FSAA is featured by the competition and if you play flight sims (yipee) it *might* be useful.

I guess this is a good rebuttal to your first statement

"If you want to play any game that has been released in the last year or any of the other games coming out such as the upcoming game Giants, Duke Nukem Forver, Doom 3 then go with a Geforce or Radeon"

...And that is just a few of many... The voodoo 5 will not even be playable on those games if at all while a GTS is what Doom 3 is being used as a standard. FSAA doesnt hold much of a arguement when it doesnt help your card operate in the future.

ATI might have to replace its TV add in card line with a add-in video cards for all those V5 owners who require something to boost their Q3 performance, AKA the direction gaming is going, and hardware TNL. A second line should be produced offering 3dfx's V3 owners 32bit color, large texture size and more performance other than tired old glide..

I just hate 3dfx's poor cards and then making insane claims to try and back their lackluster products. The voodoo might have a wonderful image but so does matrox .. nuff said?

Not trying to be a a** about it but I wouldnt mind hearing a logical explanation why a V5 could even be considered over the competition givin its outdated status. The card had technologically inferior features before it was released. I must admit tho that I have not seen a V5 in action only Radeons, GTS, and GTS Ultra the absolute sh*t compared to any of these weakling competitors but the price just isn't right. Not for me and I have over a $5 hour job!!

 

[Looney]

I have an ATI Radeon 64DDR VIVO in one rig, and a V5 in the other (i had a CL GF2 back in Sept, but got rid of it because i hated the 2D). The radeon rig is primarily my DVD, surfing, and whatever else i decide to do on it... the V5 is purely for gaming, and is the one i use more often.

I have NEVER EVER IN MY ENTIRE LIFE played a game that supports TNL. NEVER. I've played these games within the last year: AOE2, EQ, Asheron's Call, Diablo2, Deus Ex, BG2, UT. And a few others i can't recall right now. Why in the life of me would i get a GF2 that has the sh1ttiest 2D in the world, which like you said, anybody with a job over $5 an hour should have a 19"... who's going to have a 19" and set their 2D resolution at 800x600? I have two 19", both of which are at 1600x1200. I would NEVER in my life buy another nvidia product if their 2D does not improve.

But for FSAA, that's the reason why i love it, and everybody i've known that used it loved it too. Like i said, if you've never seen it, you can't appreciate it... and i'll bet that you've never seen FSAA in action. Why buy a GF2 for it's TNL when hardly any games support it? Maybe 6 months down the road games will come out with TNL, but by that time, most of us would have upgraded anyways. As for upping resolution to 1600x1200 so you don't need FSAA. Please. You're ignorant if you believe that. How many games can you really play in 1600x1200 even on a 19 or 21" monitor? Name me some games that you have played at 1600x1200 on a 19" and actually enjoy.



<< FSAA is featured by the competition and if you play flight sims (yipee) it *might* be useful >>



ATI's FSAA is NOTHING compared to the V5... i should know, i just did some serious comparison last weekend. And it's not only for flight sims... any sims. Any RPG, any adventure, any strategy game, etc, etc. The only real place where FSAA is useless is probably in FPS like Q3 or UT, where things are so hectic that you don't to pause and appreciate the graphics.

 

[GNY]

Is the 2D on the Voodoo 5 good enough for running Photo editing Programs?????

 

[rampage2001]

I've seen a Geforce 2 Ultra play very well in 1600x1200 in a Q3 game.. it was not on a 19 tho it was a 21 incher.. it looked very good and very smooth. I think the biggest downfall to the V5 is that games have gone to 3D, look at Warcraft 3, the Myth games, the new Monkey Island.. and its no doubt that the Quake engines have been the leader in the 3D field for years. If a card performs poorly on that particular engine that is a major downfall for the future viability of the card. The second point why a V5 is a second hand choice is price, you are paying more for less features and less speed. Why pay more and get less? A Radeon or GTS is now $150 while a V5 (surprisingly) is $175. These are not features that are simply cast aside in claims of &quot;I'm going to be upgrading soon anyway&quot;, if that is the case, we are wasting our time and money for sure buying a card that we know is already obsolete before its even in your hands.

The V5 has one great quality, and it is a great asset I agree.. the FSAA. My favorite two games are Q3A and HOMM. Sometimes I do turn on FSAA on my Geforce for a game of HOMM but I don't see the need for it, it doesnt improve that game very much.
If the need for high speed FSAA is small as you pointed out, then why do we need such a great high performing FSAA like on the V5?
My GeforceMX does great 4x4 FSAA in those non-hectic games you point out..

I'm not getting the &quot;put me in my place&quot; type response I wouldnt mind hearing.. we've dug far enough to find out that FSAA does NOT need to be used in fast paced games, or even wanted. We both agree there. If the Geforce and Radeon cards do 4x4 FSAA as the V5 does in the non hectic games, is the quality of FSAA in the big 3 significantly different? I couldn't tell you this only someone who has seen both in action and willing to not front for his favorite chip say for sure.

 

[RoboTECH]

rampage 2001:

<< You get no TnL, which is just unacceptable in a card that you are paying over $50 for >>

I'm sorry, I seem to have forgotten how many games actually show a noticeable benefit from T&amp;L right now. Oh yeah, that's right. NONE. In a few months? Maybe. Kinda like last Christmas, there would be hundreds of T&amp;L-based titles out. d'oh!

<< editors note: I sold my MX for $60 and it easily bests the V5 >>

omfg, that is hysterical. You obviously &quot;play&quot; 3dMark2k and nothing else. Ever play any game (GAME) at a resolution higher than 800x600? Guess not.

<< 64mb of memory that is only around 48mb in use >>

for the price of a 32MB GTS, and about $100 less than a 64MB GTS or Radeon

<< The voodoo is lackluster in every department besides FSAA >>

yet another mindless statement. it's lackluster in exactly zero areas.

<< The voodoo 5 will not even be playable on those games if at all while a GTS is what Doom 3 is being used as a standard >>

that's interesting. I believe last Christmas there were supposed to be a few hundred T&amp;L titles out. Wh00ps, still waiting. You're also assumign the MX will be able to run those games with it's lightweight fillrate. Oh yeah, Doom3 won't be out for almost 2 years. The GTS-Ultra will be to Doom3 what the V2 is to Q3. A super low-end card. Wake up. If you honestly think ANY piece of performance-oriented computer hardware is &quot;future-proof&quot;, then you're the type that would buy oceanfront property in Kansas sight-unseen.

<< all those V5 owners who require something to boost their Q3 performance >>

I get similar performance on the 5500 with the newest drivers as my GTS when I have TC disabled on the GTS (since it looks $hitty). I also get slightly superior performance on the 5500 than with the GTS in Q3:Team Arena. Wh00ps again. The 5500 smashes the MX @ Q3 in *worthwhile* resolutions. Keep trying.

<< I just hate 3dfx's poor cards >>

That's obvious. You may want to get some form of treatment. Hatred of a video card company for no reason other than &quot;brand disloyalty&quot; is truly pathetic. Have you ever owned a 5500 or are you just mindlessly parroting what you've read? Sounds like Gary Tarolli stole your girlfriend or something.

<< Not trying to be a a** >>

you mean you're like this without even trying? Heaven help your parents!!!

<< about it but I wouldnt mind hearing a logical explanation why a V5 could even be considered over the competition givin its outdated status >>

Why bother? You wouldn't listen. Logic obviously escapes you, and your mind is already made up.

<< I must admit tho that I have not seen a V5 in action only Radeons, GTS, and GTS Ultra >>

Gee, why am I not surprised? There, young mindless one, is the crux of the problem. You are talking out of your a$$ about something you know nothing about. Thx for proving yourself a dunderhead. Have a nice day.

 

[RoboTECH]

<< I'm not getting the &quot;put me in my place&quot; type response I wouldnt mind hearing >>

see previous response

and yes, there is a huge difference in FSAA quality

BTW, the MX doesn't actually do 4x4. It does 2x2, and it looks quite pitiful and runs slow as a tree sloth on a cold winter morning.

also, if you have a decent trinitron monitor that is 19&quot; or larger, the MX has really poor 2d compared to a 5500 or a Radeon.

There is exactly ONE reason to own an MX over a 5500. 3dMark2000. If that's your thing, then enjoy yourself.

 

[Looney]

<< I've seen a Geforce 2 Ultra play very well in 1600x1200 in a Q3 game >>



Who in the right mind, even with a high enough FPS, play Q3 at 1600x1200? It might be a fun experiment, but to really play that high of a resolution you'll need a monitor bigger than 21&quot;. And look, you're comparing a $500 card to a $130 card. Can't you see the discrepancy in that?



<< I think the biggest downfall to the V5 is that games have gone to 3D, look at Warcraft 3, the Myth games, the new Monkey Island >>



What are you talking about? Are you saying FSAA is only for 2D?!



<< The second point why a V5 is a second hand choice is price, you are paying more for less features and less speed. Why pay more and get less? A Radeon or GTS is now $150 while a V5 (surprisingly) is $175. >>



First off, the prices for the Radeon, GF2, and V5 are about the same now... and if you check the Hotdeals section, the V5 are going for $130 retail.

But how are you losing features and speed with the V5? What feature do you lose? TNL, and what do you gain? FSAA? Didn't several of us agree this already in this thread? To those of us who are pragmatic, FSAA is more important because we can use it in games TODAY. Not think about 'what ifs' of tomorrow. People that choose TNL are HOPING that more games will have TNL, but i highly doubt you'll find many people buying GF2 because of the TNL they could use on games today, because very few have TNL. Like I said, i've played about 15 games this year, and NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM HAD TNL. So how about this, with the GF2 you gain a feature that's useless, but it's a nice feature nonetheless. With the V5 you gain a feature that's VERY practical today. So think of it this way, V5 feature is useful today, and tomorrow. GF2 feature is useless today, but HOPEFULLY it'll be useful tomorrow. Which do you think is more advantageous now?



<< we've dug far enough to find out that FSAA does NOT need to be used in fast paced games, or even wanted >>



And is 110FPS as opposed to 80FPS far superior? I mean, can you REALLY see the difference between 110 and 80FPS? Or even 70FPS? I'm sorry, but i certainly can't, but that could be because i don't play first person shooters as often so i may not be as good at noticing those subtleties. I would sacrifice 80FPS to play at 60FPS if i could get FSAA (But i haven't played a first person shooter in months, so i haven't tried... so i don't know if that's all the FPS you'll lose... if you went down from 80FPS to 40FPS, then i wouldn't, but i'm too lazy to look up the benchmarks, so i'll just note my discretion here).

And of course the GF2 FSAA is nothing compare to a V5 FSAA (but i haven't tried GF2 FSAA in about 2 months so i don't know if anything has changed). I just downloaded new beta drives for the Radeon, win2k to be exact. I think this is the first version that supports FSAA in Win2k. I booted into EQ and looked at the FSAA. I thought they'd done an awesome job, so i loaded EQ on my V5 machine, and instantly i could tell a difference. The Radeon FSAA IS better than before, but still far from what the V5 is.

God, people that think FSAA is insignificant, i just want to wrangle their neck and send them a V5 to have a look at. If you would only see the difference, i'm sure you'll appreciate it. But maybe there are 2 types of people in this world... those who care about quality in games, and can appreciate that quality, and those whose cards is an extension of their ego (not to insult, because i'm like this too).

I will agree that TNL is the future, but it's not absolutely necessary here and now. So buying a card for TNL is like buying hte Radeon 3 months ago for DX8, it's a useful feature in pretty much but a tiny segment of use. I agree with RoboTECH, if 3DFX doesn't have TNL in their next card, it will die, no doubts about it. And i give credit to nvidia for taking the plunge into TNL, because even though the feature was ENTIRELY worthless in the original GeForce, it has spurred the TNL revolution that's to come.

Another reason why i will not buy the NV20 even if their 3D is way superior to the competition (high unlikely seeing how the Radeon2 sounds very competitive) is 2D. Monitors are getting bigger and bigger. I have 2 19&quot;, and i will probably get a 21&quot; within 6 months. I ALWAYS have my 2D resolution at 1600x1200. I had a GF2, and at 1600x1200, i was literally sick to my stomach. I had constant headache from that resolution, and couldn't stand the 2D.

Anyways, i enjoy my Radeon and V5. The Radeon is a truly nice card too, great 3d, great 2d, and great features. If the Radeon FSAA equals the V5 (and it's gotten a lot better since the beta i just downloaded 2 hours ago), out will go the V5 (well probalby not, another benefit of the V5 is compatibility).

Anyways, you won't go wrong with a V5 or Radeon.. just don't choose an Nvidia card if you plan on using high resolution, especially in 2D.

 

[Looney]

<< I must admit tho that I have not seen a V5 in action only Radeons >>



BTW, grab a V5 from Electronic Boutique (i think they allow open returns without a restocking fee) or anywhere else that allows you to return things without a restocking fee, play with it for a day, then come back and tell us if FSAA is not worth it.

Do this and your argument will be sooo much stronger. But i doubt you will be able to take a look at a V5 FSAA and say it's useless. Hell, where do you live? If you live in Southern Ontario I'll even lend you the card to have a look at.