GTI? MS3? Wait for focus st?

[Monster_Munch]

Do they sell BMW 3 series touring in the US? It has plenty of luggage space and a choice of great engines.

 

[JCH13]

I just want a fairly reliable, good looking, hatch with a decent amount of power, with a dual clutch paddle shifter combination, under 30k w/ options.

Do they sell BMW 3 series touring in the US? It has plenty of luggage space and a choice of great engines.

There is your problem.

 

[Demo24]

Do they sell BMW 3 series touring in the US? It has plenty of luggage space and a choice of great engines.

They do, but only in 328i form so 230hp and auto only. Not exactly the most exciting BMW, the hot hatches would be more fun.

 

[Monster_Munch]

They do, but only in 328i form so 230hp and auto only. Not exactly the most exciting BMW, the hot hatches would be more fun.

Over here you can get a 335i touring with a 3 litre twin turbo 6 cylinder. I've seen a 2006 car with flappy paddle gear shift for around £16k. Pretty sweet if you want a family wagon that's fun to drive.

 

[Anubis]

You can prob get a great deal on a Legacy GT wagon. larger then all those you listed but they are great cars

 

[exar333]

I ranked the turbo-hatches as follows in my test drives: WRX, MS3, GTI.

After getting used to RWD cars, FWD is just not tolerable for me anymore. If you want FWD though, the MS3 is an AWESOME car. Loved the car and how it felt to drive (minus the FWD).

GTI was a little more comfy, but lacked the 'oomph' that the MS3 had. That car was a blast to drive, and for the $$$$, is really hard to beat.

Focus RS could be really good too, but probably MT (no paddles). Does the Ralliart have a similar paddle-shifter option as the Evo? If so, that might be an option too. I am not a big fan of the styling, but it could be pretty good too. More $$$ than a MS3 though...

 

[ballmode]

Lancer ralliart with flappy paddles.

Ditch the stock wheels as they weigh alot

 

[digitaldurandal]

I'll throw my $0.02 for the MS3. Recently took it camping and stuffed it to the gills with equipment and still easily had enough juice to drive stupidly fast on the awesome roads leading up to the camp site (just ask JLee, he was leading the caravan).



I did the RMM on my MS3 with a friend in less than an hour, it was a breeze. I also installed a Mazdaspeed cold air intake (and many other things). It was the first car I've ever modded and was pretty easy. If you can turn a wrench you're probably good to go. It's also something a garage should install for a minimum amount of labor.

If you go the MS3 route, just getting the CAI (cold air intake) will add 25whp as dyno'd by several outfits. That'll get you up to 250-275whp depending on who you ask. Silly amounts of power for a $23k car and a $400 Manufacturer approved mod. Mazdaspeed also makes a full suspension kit, and cat-back exhaust for it (and probably a few other things) so you could add a bit of power straight off the show-room floor and keep it all 100% warranty legal.



True story. The stock levels of boost are pretty good, and the car can generate some serious torque down low. So low, in fact, that the oil pump couldn't keep up with the amount of torque. Once people figured out that it was bad to hit 18psi at 2,500rpm (I'm perhaps exaggerating a little here), and changed the tuning to limit boost below 3,000rpm or so, the peak power numbers started to skyrocket. The stock transmission, clutch, and bottom end have all proved to be good for 400+whp with a good tune. Hypertech and the Cobb Accessport have both proved to be great engine controllers, Hypertech geared more for 300whp or less and AP good for 300+whp.

At stock power levels, or even a few bolt-ons with the stock ECU like I have, the car strikes me a very reliable. I haven't had any issues with it at all. So far it's survived me learning to drive stick, some VERY spirited driving, and several long road trips.

I'll be honest if I get a MS3 I wouldn't do much modifications to it until it was older. A cold air intake is no big deal, especially if the manufacturer is not complaining about them.

I don't have an issue with installing a RMM and oil catch either but have never done it and though the RMM would be kind of a pain to do just thinking about it.

Honestly I don't need a race car with 400 whp, I just want something that would be fun at SCCA or going down a winding road ya know?

When you guys are talking about the MS3s here are the new generation much different from the old?

Also, what is the real gas mileage on these things? Is it REALLY worse than my wife's 350z? The ratings show it as 17/25 or something crazy like that.

 

[digitaldurandal]

Lancer ralliart with flappy paddles.

Ditch the stock wheels as they weigh alot

Mitsubishi transmission, I will pass. It sucks too because the lancer looks really good.

My wife owned a 3000gt and I have a ton a friends with DSMs and all of the cars have tranny issues. Bulletproof engines with a transmission made of glass, I don't think the engineers for each one actually communicate with each other.

 

[digitaldurandal]

There is your problem.

Ya I really don't want to spend more than 30k. Less is better actually.

@Monster: not really interested in getting a car that is too old. I am a fan of used but only one or two years used.

My current car is a 2007 civic ex automatic. I got it october 08 with 9800 miles for 17400 out the door. Saved me about 4 grand to get a car a little more than a year old with a negligible amount of miles on it. I think the car had a fender bender and the hood was repainted but the engine is pristine and I have not had any issues with it at all.

The only bad thing is packing the car for 3 people camping meant putting things into my brother's lap and not being able to see out the rear window very well, and of course the fact that the vehicle is not exactly fun. Although it really is not as slow as you would think a little 140hp car would be.

 

[MotF Bane]

After getting used to RWD cars, FWD is just not tolerable for me anymore. If you want FWD though, the MS3 is an AWESOME car. Loved the car and how it felt to drive (minus the FWD).

The MS3's lack of AWD makes it feel... incomplete.

 

[punjabiplaya]

I'll be honest if I get a MS3 I wouldn't do much modifications to it until it was older. A cold air intake is no big deal, especially if the manufacturer is not complaining about them.

I don't have an issue with installing a RMM and oil catch either but have never done it and though the RMM would be kind of a pain to do just thinking about it.

Honestly I don't need a race car with 400 whp, I just want something that would be fun at SCCA or going down a winding road ya know?

When you guys are talking about the MS3s here are the new generation much different from the old?

Also, what is the real gas mileage on these things? Is it REALLY worse than my wife's 350z? The ratings show it as 17/25 or something crazy like that.

the gen2s have full suspension damping (I doubt you'd notice the difference) and slightly taller gearing. The interior is different, and the exterior styling is different. The ECU is different. I think that's about it.

Just to let you know, the MS3 slaloms faster than the 2011 STi, there are a lot of guys auto-xing their ms3s.

edit: I do about 75% highway driving, and as long as you can restrain yourself, I get about 27-28mpg per tank.

 

[JCH13]

I'll be honest if I get a MS3 I wouldn't do much modifications to it until it was older. A cold air intake is no big deal, especially if the manufacturer is not complaining about them.

I don't have an issue with installing a RMM and oil catch either but have never done it and though the RMM would be kind of a pain to do just thinking about it.

Honestly I don't need a race car with 400 whp, I just want something that would be fun at SCCA or going down a winding road ya know?

When you guys are talking about the MS3s here are the new generation much different from the old?

Also, what is the real gas mileage on these things? Is it REALLY worse than my wife's 350z? The ratings show it as 17/25 or something crazy like that.

My understanding is that the MS3 is pretty good in D-Stock SCCA class, and is definitely fun on twisties. Too much fun... :whiste:

Mazdaspeed makes many bolt-ons that are all Mazda approved, and that your dealer (assuming they are also a Mazdaspeed dealer) can install for you.

The newer generation MS3s are a bit difference cosmetically and have a few tech options the 1st gen didn't, but the drivetrain, chassis, and suspension are all pretty much the same, aside from slightly wider wheels on the 2nd gen.

 

[digitaldurandal]

the gen2s have full suspension damping (I doubt you'd notice the difference) and slightly taller gearing. The interior is different, and the exterior styling is different. The ECU is different. I think that's about it.

Just to let you know, the MS3 slaloms faster than the 2011 STi, there are a lot of guys auto-xing their ms3s.

edit: I do about 75% highway driving, and as long as you can restrain yourself, I get about 27-28mpg per tank.

That's what I was hoping the EPA can be quite a bit off. I also drive about 75% highway. Currently in the Civic I get about 33 - 34 mpg. On a road trip I will hit 40.

 

[JCH13]

the gen2s have full suspension damping (I doubt you'd notice the difference) and slightly taller gearing. The interior is different, and the exterior styling is different. The ECU is different. I think that's about it.

Just to let you know, the MS3 slaloms faster than the 2011 STi, there are a lot of guys auto-xing their ms3s.

edit: I do about 75% highway driving, and as long as you can restrain yourself, I get about 27-28mpg per tank.

Full suspension damping?

Good call on the gearing, I totally forgot.

What is different with the ECU?

 

[punjabiplaya]

Full suspension damping?

Good call on the gearing, I totally forgot.

What is different with the ECU?

It's a different ECU which is faster/better/etc. The programming is different too. It has different boost logic, fueling logic, etc... The Cobb guys logged a lot of the differences they found while developing the AP for the gen2s.

http://blogs-test.edmunds.com/roadtests/2009/11/2010-mazdaspeed3-suspension-walkaround.html

http://www.insideline.com/mazda/maz...zdaspeed-3-behind-the-scenes-at-mazda-rd.html

Damping was the wrong word. More like "they spent a lot of time on the suspension since they didn't really do anything to the powertrain."

 

[JCH13]

It's a different ECU which is faster/better/etc. The programming is different too. It has different boost logic, fueling logic, etc... The Cobb guys logged a lot of the differences they found while developing the AP for the gen2s.

http://blogs-test.edmunds.com/roadtests/2009/11/2010-mazdaspeed3-suspension-walkaround.html

http://www.insideline.com/mazda/maz...zdaspeed-3-behind-the-scenes-at-mazda-rd.html

Damping was the wrong word. More like "they spent a lot of time on the suspension since they didn't really do anything to the powertrain."

That they did, isn't the gen2 about 4mph faster through a standard slalom course?

That article makes me want a 2nd gen

 

[homercles337]

I just want a fairly reliable, good looking, hatch with a decent amount of power, with a dual clutch paddle shifter combination, under 30k w/ options.

I do not feel like I am asking for too much here am I?

Suggestions?

Im in the same boat. I really like the Volvo C30, but its FWD and prone to some serious torque steer.

 

[Spicedaddy]

GTI with DSG and leather...

That's what I have and couldn't be happier. It's powerful enough for a FWD car, and unlike the MS3, it feels like a small luxury car.

 

[JCH13]

GTI with DSG and leather...

That's what I have and couldn't be happier. It's powerful enough for a FWD car, and unlike the MS3, it feels like a small luxury car.

That's because the MS3 is supposed to feel like a sports car?

 

[Spicedaddy]

That's because the MS3 is supposed to feel like a sports car?

Sports cars are not FWD...

 

[HAL9000]

@HAL9000: The new ST isn't even out though..

2012 one might not be but he has a 2011... How different can it be?

 

[punjabiplaya]

That's because the MS3 is supposed to feel like a sports car?

I love how the Mazda engineers responded to the claims of torque steer by the press: "we're aware of it and we think it adds character to the car" (paraphrasing)

 

[JCH13]

Sports cars are not FWD...

In your opinion, anyway. FWD does not mean the car isn't a blast to drive or competitive in its racing class.

I love how the Mazda engineers responded to the claims of torque steer by the press: "we're aware of it and we think it adds character to the car" (paraphrasing)

I think it does too.

 

[MotF Bane]

I think it does too.

I think they're a little bit nuts.