GTI? MS3? Wait for focus st?

[digitaldurandal]

So.. I wanted to get something that would hold a little more for camping trips and road trips and also something that was a little more fun to drive. Dual clutch with paddles are a big plus for me.

I look at the GTI and think that it looks pretty nice, perhaps a little pricey for the HP but definitely enough power to have fun with it. DSG, hatchback for more room and I look at consumer reports and it lists the reliability as 7% above average... but the previous GTI is littered with bad marks as well as the 5+ year old Golfs, which makes me worry about buying a newer one.

Then I thought well I could grab a Mazdaspeed3 perhaps. Doesn't look as nice on the exterior IMO - kind of enjoy the GTI's refinement. Nice interior though probably better than the plaid seats in the GTI. Then I search around and find the previous MS3 had motor mounts breaking off within 1k miles. Consumer reports places it 6% above average. No paddle shifters.

Audo s3 rated even lower and far more expensive..

I just want a fairly reliable, good looking, hatch with a decent amount of power, with a dual clutch paddle shifter combination, under 30k w/ options.

I do not feel like I am asking for too much here am I?

Suggestions?

 

[jlee]

If you're looking for a FWD hatch that's just silly fun, go drive a Speed3. JCH13 has one...I'm sure he'll chime in at some point.

The Focus ST is not a bad looking car either - when are they supposed to be out?

 

[Demo24]

If you want DSG, you'll have to stick with the GTI. The Focus ST will be getting a manual 6spd, and doubtful anything other than that.

 

[bbs lm-r]

There's also the WRX hatch, but I don't think it has optional paddles.

 

[punjabiplaya]

Anyone with any knowledge of an ms3 will tell you when you're ready to buy the car to have money set aside for an aftermarket RMM, intake, and an AP. MS3 is what it should be with those 3 things. While the gen2s are kinda fugly with the stupid smiley face, that car has never failed to make me smile while flooring the pedal or finding a twisty road.

WRX is manual only (5spd) but a little more expensive and just as much fun.

Looks like the Focus ST is getting a 6spd manual only, should be in a similar vane of fun (very similar chassis to the ms3).

 

[Fenixgoon]

i'd wait for the focus ST just to try them all..but i'm pretty sure the MS3 would smoke both hands down. it's a pretty beastly car.

 

[punjabiplaya]

also, GTI with intake, downpipe, tune, etc... can be beastly too

(well all the cars mentioned can). modding ftw.

 

[Demo24]

i'd wait for the focus ST just to try them all..but i'm pretty sure the MS3 would smoke both hands down. it's a pretty beastly car.

Well technically the MS3 is based on the older C1 platform from the Ford trio, so I would imagine the new ST to either perform better (handling wise) or be pretty comparable.

 

[MotF Bane]

Anyone with any knowledge of an ms3 will tell you when you're ready to buy the car to have money set aside for an aftermarket RMM, intake, and an AP. MS3 is what it should be with those 3 things. While the gen2s are kinda fugly with the stupid smiley face, that car has never failed to make me smile while flooring the pedal or finding a twisty road.

WRX is manual only (5spd) but a little more expensive and just as much fun.

Looks like the Focus ST is getting a 6spd manual only, should be in a similar vane of fun (very similar chassis to the ms3).

Translation? RMM and AP?

 

[Kelvrick]

AP is access port. RMM is probably rear motor mount. Damn, I hate doing motor mounts.

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

FWD = Fail

Get a rex.

 

[HAL9000]

My friend has a Focus ST, it's OK, wouldn't recommend it, if you like that sort of thing then it's a good car.

 

[jlee]

Translation? RMM and AP?

AccessPort from Cobb. Not sure on RMM, though.

 

[digitaldurandal]

@Rocksteady: The wrex is ugly, i'm sorry - and to top it off it is quite expensive. If they rework the wrex for next year to not look like a beaten small dog whose eyes are popping out then perhaps I will get one.

I understand that FWD is not the best thing for performance cars, but I really could use the space a hatch allows and for some reason in America we don't have any hatch competition.

Also WRX insurance was so high last time I checked it.

@HAL9000: The new ST isn't even out though.

@Demo: I am kind of hoping that you are wrong and Ford drops the DSG in there.

@Fenix: But my original question about reliability remains, and people saying to immediately replace the rear motor mount does not make me feel very confident in the MS3's reliability.

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

@Rocksteady: The wrex is ugly, i'm sorry - and to top it off it is quite expensive. If they rework the wrex for next year to not look like a beaten small dog whose eyes are popping out then perhaps I will get one.

I understand that FWD is not the best thing for performance cars, but I really could use the space a hatch allows and for some reason in America we don't have any hatch competition.

Also WRX insurance was so high last time I checked it.

@HAL9000: The new ST isn't even out though.

@Demo: I am kind of hoping that you are wrong and Ford drops the DSG in there.

@Fenix: But my original question about reliability remains, and people saying to immediately replace the rear motor mount does not make me feel very confident in the MS3's reliability.

It's wrx or rex. Not wrex.

Go a second hand rex before going a piece of shit FWD car.

 

[digitaldurandal]

It's wrx or rex. Not wrex.

Go a second hand rex before going a piece of shit FWD car.

Still ugly and still high insurance. I'll pass.

GTI is out too just visiting VW forums and it is filled with horror stories on there. When I was young I had a celica and the only horror story people would tell is about how the misshifted their own car and blew the engine... and toyota covered them for so long before they finally said no and made the 2nd gear shift longer.. which ruined the performance of the car but I guess it may have solved the problem.

If I were in Europe I would have so many more options. /jealous

 

[punjabiplaya]

Translation? RMM and AP?

rear motor mount. 36k miles and not a single problem with mine. You just replace the few parts on the car that the accountants got to and it's all good. MS3s are pretty reliable and if you're really worried about reliabity, the only thing I can think of as being unreliable is the intake valves being gummed up and the turbo seals blowing. There are fixes for both (oil catch can and EGR delete and banjo bolt for the turbo).

 

[MotF Bane]

rear motor mount. 36k miles and not a single problem with mine. You just replace the few parts on the car that the accountants got to and it's all good. MS3s are pretty reliable and if you're really worried about intake valves gumming up, you can install an occ (oil catch can) and do an EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) delete.

Reliability has been something that concerns me about MS3, or really, anything with a turbo in it. It just seems like more parts that can break, and with pressure to aggravate weak points.

 

[punjabiplaya]

well the car tends to attract people who want even more, which leads to modding and tuning, so yeah

 

[digitaldurandal]

rear motor mount. 36k miles and not a single problem with mine. You just replace the few parts on the car that the accountants got to and it's all good. MS3s are pretty reliable and if you're really worried about reliabity, the only thing I can think of as being unreliable is the intake valves being gummed up and the turbo seals blowing. There are fixes for both (oil catch can and EGR delete and banjo bolt for the turbo).

What difficulty to DIY. I am not really mechanically inclined. I imagine the RMM is a pain in the rear end.

How much power does the MS3 mod to easily on simple changes?

 

[digitaldurandal]

Reliability has been something that concerns me about MS3, or really, anything with a turbo in it. It just seems like more parts that can break, and with pressure to aggravate weak points.

Any time you add more moving parts obviously reliability will be a concern. I think for the most part though if an engine is designed well to withstand the pressure then there will not be much difference between a turbo and nonturbo engine.

 

[jlee]

My Forester had 109k on it when I replaced the turbo - may have lasted longer if I didn't up the boost on it, but who knows. I spent about $365 on a VF39 (STi turbo) and I'm going strong at 117k. I wouldn't let a turbo car scare you.

 

[punjabiplaya]

What difficulty to DIY. I am not really mechanically inclined. I imagine the RMM is a pain in the rear end.

How much power does the MS3 mod to easily on simple changes?

The RMM and intake are super easy to do. Even the most clumsy butterfinger could do each in 1 hour at the most. A good tune with an intake would be 250 whp/300 ft*lb easily (of course at sea level).

 

[punjabiplaya]

My Forester had 109k on it when I replaced the turbo - may have lasted longer if I didn't up the boost on it, but who knows. I spent about $365 on a VF39 (STi turbo) and I'm going strong at 117k. I wouldn't let a turbo car scare you.

yep. People were throwing rods earlier in the ms3s because people were going full bolted without a tune and the rods were venting through blocks. But now that the platform is better understood, there are lots of guys running garrett 307x turbos and 400whp on stock internals.

It's a really new platform (~5 yrs old) so it's just now maturing and getting really good aftermarket parts/tuning/etc...

 

[JCH13]

I'll throw my $0.02 for the MS3. Recently took it camping and stuffed it to the gills with equipment and still easily had enough juice to drive stupidly fast on the awesome roads leading up to the camp site (just ask JLee, he was leading the caravan).

What difficulty to DIY. I am not really mechanically inclined. I imagine the RMM is a pain in the rear end.

How much power does the MS3 mod to easily on simple changes?

I did the RMM on my MS3 with a friend in less than an hour, it was a breeze. I also installed a Mazdaspeed cold air intake (and many other things). It was the first car I've ever modded and was pretty easy. If you can turn a wrench you're probably good to go. It's also something a garage should install for a minimum amount of labor.

If you go the MS3 route, just getting the CAI (cold air intake) will add 25whp as dyno'd by several outfits. That'll get you up to 250-275whp depending on who you ask. Silly amounts of power for a $23k car and a $400 Manufacturer approved mod. Mazdaspeed also makes a full suspension kit, and cat-back exhaust for it (and probably a few other things) so you could add a bit of power straight off the show-room floor and keep it all 100% warranty legal.

yep. People were throwing rods earlier in the ms3s because people were going full bolted without a tune and the rods were venting through blocks. But now that the platform is better understood, there are lots of guys running garrett 307x turbos and 400whp on stock internals.

It's a really new platform (~5 yrs old) so it's just now maturing and getting really good aftermarket parts/tuning/etc...

True story. The stock levels of boost are pretty good, and the car can generate some serious torque down low. So low, in fact, that the oil pump couldn't keep up with the amount of torque. Once people figured out that it was bad to hit 18psi at 2,500rpm (I'm perhaps exaggerating a little here), and changed the tuning to limit boost below 3,000rpm or so, the peak power numbers started to skyrocket. The stock transmission, clutch, and bottom end have all proved to be good for 400+whp with a good tune. Hypertech and the Cobb Accessport have both proved to be great engine controllers, Hypertech geared more for 300whp or less and AP good for 300+whp.

At stock power levels, or even a few bolt-ons with the stock ECU like I have, the car strikes me a very reliable. I haven't had any issues with it at all. So far it's survived me learning to drive stick, some VERY spirited driving, and several long road trips.