GT200 is apparently already taped out and Waiting for r700!

[apoppin]

i am inspired by old threads where 7800GTX/512M - a short-lived "status" card for $600 was urged by NVIDIA PR as a "good investment". Check it out and see if you agree with my *analogy*

7800GTX vs X1900XTX or wait for G71


With me ... so far?

GX2 is about to launch ... and it BEGS the question about GT200. Apparently, it's taped out with the first silicon back - check out the rumors of the huge die size - larger than even G80. It *appears* that NVIDIA is apparently waiting for ATi to release R700 before springing G200.
:Q

Why is NVIDIA releasing - 9800 recycled GPUs - when GT200 could be deployed anytime they feel like it? it sure SOUNDS like 7800GTX-512, doesn't it - an 'exercise' in milking consumers for a short-term product, and must cast real doubt on the GX2 as any form of "investment"
:roll:

Links and quotes below:

http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7472.html

More than a few NVIDIA partners have been revealing information about the upcoming "GT200" chip from NVIDIA. The G8x architectures has been with us for an extremely long time, and with the G9x refresh, NVIDIA has had more time than ever to complete the true next generation architecture, known as both "G100" and "GT200". Apparently, NVIDIA has been working hard because the story is that NVIDIA could present its next architecture any day now, if it wanted to, but instead it's going to keep riding the G92 wave until AMD is ready to launch the R7x series.

The only kind of information about the performance that has leaked was posted by German HT4U.net, which stated that GT200 would sport twice the FPU performance of G92. This doesn't say much about the actual performance though, but we would be very surprised if GT200 doesn't stand up to R7x.

Sprechen Sie Deutsch?
http://www.ht4u.net/news/1488_...den_gt200_in_den_markt

http://forum.beyond3d.com/show...=1136515&postcount=767

The same rumors also mention some really big die -- bigger than anything we've seen so far with NVIDIA is going from 65 to 55nm, while AMD is already there.


and IF you have any doubt about the SAME PR, check this out:
512MB 7800GTXs in stock
the OP was "the artist formerly known as Rollo" here repeating his SAME tired old argument -back in '05/'06

Would u still buy a GTX 512mb if it was 485.99?
Same questions were are asking about GX2

NVIDIA at the least needs better PR ... they recycle it just like their HW


EDIT: That title has been bugging me for awhile ... too many CAPS, !! and **'s
:roll:


... and JUST in case anyone has MISSED it .. still .. My belated *disclaimer* --this IS a RUMOR-type thread with LOTS of speculation dished out and you are invited to partake - or not

 

[Tempered81]

g71 equaled 8800gtx right?

If history will repeat itself, a g200 would rock the gfx scene. depends on r700 performance i suppose?


I wouldnt buy that gx2.

 

[apoppin]

Not for $600 .. when GT 200 is *waiting* only for AMD to get near r700's launch

and certainly NOT for the unwitting consumers used as *pawns* in this dirty game - NVIDIA's own "Fans" that buy it expecting an "investment" will be the real suckers and left holding the proverbial "bag"



glad we know ... and we have *precedent* to point to .. exactly 2 years ago!
-good thing [for us] "search" works again

g71 equaled 8800gtx right?

No - 7900 series that went up against x1900xt

7800GTX/512 was the same as GX2 - an "in-betweener". The 512MB "status card" was to beat x1800xt

 

[ronnn]

Why would they wait? Has to be cheaper to produce and better selling than that double gpu, pcb monstrosity that is coming. Anyways I agree... pr coming from tech companies (both official and viral) is very predictable. Basically they are appealing to 12 year old boys that have no memory of the past.

 

[PCTC2]

Originally posted by: jaredpace
g71 equaled 8800gtx right?

If history will repeat itself, a g200 would rock the gfx scene. depends on r700 performance i suppose?


I wouldnt buy that gx2.

G71 was the 7900GTX....

 

[Tempered81]

Originally posted by: ronnn
Why would they wait? Has to be cheaper to produce and better selling than that double gpu, pcb monstrosity that is coming. Anyways I agree... pr coming from tech companies (both official and viral) is very predictable. Basically they are appealing to 12 year old boys that have no memory of the past.

i don't know why they would wait, but it's pretty obvious

Other than boasting a faster, revised core architectgure, the card has less features than the flagship g80

hint hint.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: ronnn
Why would they wait? Has to be cheaper to produce and better selling than that double gpu, pcb monstrosity that is coming. Anyways I agree... pr coming from tech companies (both official and viral) is very predictable. Basically they are appealing to 12 year old boys that have no memory of the past.

isn't that kinda *obvious*
--to MILK their fans - just like with GTX-512 - it was BLOWN AWAY by 7900 which was MUCH cheaper and faster - never mind that x1900xt crushed it

and those *same gullible* FANS had to upgrade shortly ,,,, selling their $1,000 GTX/512 cards for for ~$300 a few short months later

and we are being told the SAME THING today ..
"Buy GX2 if you want the 'Fastest'"
-for $700

Send them a message, tell 'em to stuff it - for $600 .. we learned the last time

It is a dirty game between NVIDIA and AMD/ATi and the customers are their unwitting "pawns" - NVIDIA wants to release GT200 just to spoil the r700 launch - that is the "timing" .. their PLAN ... as they have done so many times in the past [to each other].

 

[Dman877]

If you can afford those heinously over-priced graphics cards, I doubt "investment potential" is really factoring into your decision.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Dman877
If you can afford those heinously over-priced graphics cards, I doubt "investment potential" is really factoring into your decision.

Totally agreed .. the consumer that would benefit [maybe] is the guy who buys two for $1500
... he can brag to his friends - for a couple of months - 'till he *has* to buy a single GT200 to replace it
--whenever r700 launches
:roll:

 

[TC91]

Originally posted by: Dman877
If you can afford those heinously over-priced graphics cards, I doubt "investment potential" is really factoring into your decision.

QFT

 

[BFG10K]

If you can afford those heinously over-priced graphics cards, I doubt "investment potential" is really factoring into your decision.

I can afford them but that doesn't mean I'm going to piss my money away. I won't be touching the GX2 anyway because it's SLI based. A solution like that doesn't deserve my money, neither does ATi's X2 for that matter.

 

[lopri]

You know, I feel guilty every time 7800 GTX 512 is mentioned. I bought 2 of those on the launch day for $650 per pop and sold them for approx. $800 each almost two months later.

 

[seriouscat]

Ok so for those not "in the know", what would be the true equivilent of the 8800GTX in its Geforce 9 form? Some 9900GTX thingy or would we have to wait till the 10 series?

Btw, which Gxx = which Geforce?

Didnt the 8 series have two Gxx due to it going from 99nm to 65nm? Sorry, I'm not that well knowledged in gpx chipset history. I just know them from the Geforce numberings.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

If you can afford those heinously over-priced graphics cards, I doubt "investment potential" is really factoring into your decision.

I can afford them but that doesn't mean I'm going to piss my money away. I won't be touching the GX2 anyway because it's SLI based. A solution like that doesn't deserve my money, neither does ATi's X2 for that matter.

*exactly*

and congrats on the 'upgrade'

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: lopri
You know, I feel guilty every time 7800 GTX 512 is mentioned. I bought 2 of those on the launch day for $650 per pop and sold them for approx. $800 each almost two months later.

All the people I know of who took my advice cashed out like you did, we all knew the 7900GTX was coming and the price would fall.

In any case, this is a totally different scenario.

 

[SickBeast]

I'm personally just wondering why this whole fiasco wasn't raised when the 3870X2 came out.

It was pretty much the same situation. By all accounts, the R700 should come out at around the GT200's same timeframe.

Really IMO the 3870X2 was a more desperate attempt to gain the performance crown than this 9800GX2 card is. With the AMD part, they slapped a couple of midrange cores together. At least nVidia is going with something high-end to begin with.

As many others are saying, all of these dual-GPU cards are pretty much junk. There is absolutely no assurance that drivers will be produced down the line for newer games.

I personally don't see the problem with our current single-GPU cards anyway. We need more demanding games in order for there to really be a true need. :beer:

 

[HannibalX]

Video cards aren't an investment. You buy current (can be bought right now) technology at your specific price point. That's it.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: lopri
You know, I feel guilty every time 7800 GTX 512 is mentioned. I bought 2 of those on the launch day for $650 per pop and sold them for approx. $800 each almost two months later.

All the people I know of who took my advice cashed out like you did, we all knew the 7900GTX was coming and the price would fall.

In any case, this is a totally different scenario.

i doubt it .. it feels the same

and at ANY rate, i will take your excellent advice from the last time .. i think i will still get one GX2 -or maybe 2

and again .. thank you for *reminding me* to sell it the very NEXT week to maximize my profit after benchmarking it

A GX2 in a sealed box should command quite a premium if *i* am right and it ALSO turns out to be a very "limited" run - just to temporarily capture the 'crown' from that OTHER X2 *pretender*

 

[Cheex]

Originally posted by: Pale Rider
Video cards aren't an investment. You buy current (can be bought right now) technology at your specific price point. That's it.

That is the best point i've seen made here.

:thumbsup:

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Cheex

Originally posted by: Pale Rider
Video cards aren't an investment. You buy current (can be bought right now) technology at your specific price point. That's it.

That is the best point i've seen made here.

:thumbsup:

BUT .. what nRollo appears to me to be saying is that you could make a profit - if the conditions were right - like before with 7800GTX/512M

Everybody then wanted the *fastest* .. never mind the obvious disadvantages - JUST LIKE NOW .. and after it was released it was *impossible* to find ... it sold out in a few days ... fans were paying $1000 for a used one on ebay

and in a couple of months, 7900GTX swept it away performance wise .. price-wise .. then x1900xt ... and many 7800GTX/512M purchasers were bitter

i see the same thing possibly - even likely - happening ... now .. Gx2 serves NVIDIA's purpose just like the old GTX did ... and they do NOT change their habits. NVIDIA only needs a few to claim the "peformance crown" .. so it is not quite like 3870x2 which is gonna also get cheap and plentiful [i predict]

 

[nRollo]

I do not recommend anyone buy the 9800GX2 as an investment.

I did at one point recommend if you want one you buy it launch day, because the pricing engines at etailers will raise the price if they prove popular.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: nRollo
I do not recommend anyone buy the 9800GX2 as an investment.

I did at one point recommend if you want one you buy it launch day, because the pricing engines at etailers will raise the price if they prove popular.

that IS what i remember you said about Gx2 and i AM talking your advice
.. but i am *specifically* talking about 2 years ago when you DID recommend 7800GTX/512

after that i e-x-p-a-n-d-e-d with my OWN speculation:

i see the same thing possibly - even likely - happening ... now .. Gx2 serves NVIDIA's purpose just like the old GTX did ... and they do NOT change their habits. NVIDIA only needs a few to claim the "performance crown" .. so it is not quite like 3870x2 which is gonna also get cheap and plentiful [i predict]

so .. it is clearly labeled as my own [lame ass] prediction .. and i am taking my OWN advice ... putting my hard-earned money where my mouth is [assuming i can get one for MSRP the instant it launches and is available to at NewEgg]

i believe in my own Bullshit
it is my own analysis of the current situation between AMD and NVIDIA


Most importantly, i am not "recommending anything" except you really consider the evidence and know what you may or may not be getting. IF i get a GX2 it is with my eyes wide open and i accept the consequences of my decision.. . I might be getting a world class Monster that is competitive for another year .. or i might sell it after 196 continuous hours benchmarking GX2 on black coffee and no doze ... profit or loss,
it's *only* money ,,, i think that is the message for buying a GX2

 

[taltamir]

yes, video cards are indeed subject to basic economics and marketing principles.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

If GT200 was truly ready on its own terms, it would be released now, there is no such thing as waiting for the other company.

Proof is in the GX2. The money and resources required to produce a multi GPU platform as a high end part in place of a single GPU platform is simply nowhere near as ideal as a single chip solution. nVidia could still easily milk the G9x series as lowend/midrange solutions while they have a true (and clearly uncontested, at least until R700) high end solution.

Seriously, where do people get this idea of 'waiting'? Why wait until your opponent has some defense when you can shoot him in his unarmed face now? If there's a reason GT200 isn't being released now, its not because nVidia is 'waiting' for AMD to make a move first.

 

[BFG10K]

I personally don't see the problem with our current single-GPU cards anyway. We need more demanding games in order for there to really be a true need.

The GTX released in Nov 06 is still effectively the top-end card in Mar 08. Modern games have caught up and many require reduced detail levels in order to run acceptably.

In particular I badly need more performance in Crysis, Call of Juarez, and Stalker (now that driver AA is working).

Additionally other modern games running at 4xAA are fine but aren't taking advantage of nVidia's great AA modes, so more performance is always welcome.