Grounding Kits?

[thescreensavers]

For my G35 there are many kits blah blah. You have people say it did stuff, to people who say it did jack.


What are your guys takes on this? I don't know what to believe. I am not sold on it either.

But looking into it, would only cost 50-60 bucks of wires. to DIY.

 

[T2urtle]

older cars ground the starter/battery/ generator yielded great results overall. Like i explained on driver... i dont see the reason why there would be improvements. Like 90% of the mods out there its mainly placebo effect. I changed something on my car therefore it must be better. Just because a fast car in the 1/4 mile has it on his car doesn't mean it helped that car go any faster.


In the end the ground kit doesn't hurt anything except for your pocket. It could help in some cases but often times it shouldn't. If a car had bad grounding for something a lot of electronics and sensors would be messed up.

 

[basslover1]

I did this on my car, only because I already had the wires and connectors from years worth of stereo installations. That being said, I didn't notice anything. On most modern cars, I can't imagine it making a difference at all.

If you have the supplies already, and want to tinker on your car, then sure go ahead. Otherwise, I wouldn't waste your time.

 

[thedarkwolf]

I sure as hell wouldn't pay money for a kit.

 

[Pulsar]

Once you're done with the grounding kit I've got these cool magnetic thrice-blessed bracelets that will make your arthritis go away.

 

[ShawnD1]

Why would it need to be grounded? It's an isolated DC system.....

I should ground my cell phone. It'll work better fo sho

 

[chorb]

I had never heard of such a thing until this thread. I typed it into google and got this gem of an answer on some other 350z message board:

a grounding kit helps with overall performance with the car. It helps with more torque and horsepower. It gives you a smoother ride and you really need it when u have a subwoofer. It helps with the electricity power and makes it run smoother and better by not taking in too much power. You should get one. I would prefer a stillen grounding kit

 

[thescreensavers]

Why would it need to be grounded? It's an isolated DC system.....

I should ground my cell phone. It'll work better fo sho

^ isolated DC system

what exactly does this mean?

Some guy on the forum I am on sells 50 bucks worth of cable for 150 to ground the G35/350z/G37, everyone either says its amazing or its bad. If people say its bad then you have people immediately defending the cables and that maybe they did not install it right.

I had never heard of such a thing until this thread. I typed it into google and got this gem of an answer on some other 350z message board:

Never heard of that either, the main thing I hear (search on g35driver) especially for the Automatics is that the noise and resistance in the system interferes with the TCU and ECU, when adding grounding noise and resistance goes down thus these systems can talk better thus improving throttle response, shifting,and might gain some power since the ECU is running more efficiently.

They said something that the plugs firing create the noise... I have no idea lol


Majority of the people who get the kit and say it works say "Better quicker shifts" "better throttle response" sometimes you get "Better torque"

 

[Maximus96]

i built a set out of power cables for a previous car, felt no difference at all.

 

[thescreensavers]

dp

 

[chorb]

Never heard of that either, the main thing I hear (search on g35driver) especially for the Automatics is that the noise in the system interferes with the TCU and ECU, when adding grounding, these systems can talk better thus improving throttle response, shifting,and might gain some power since the ECU is running more efficiently.

They said something that the plugs firing create the noise... I have no idea lol

snake oil sales pitch.

It is possible for electronic noise to enter the computer circuitry from bad grounding techniques, but if it was bad enough to cause a problem your whole ECU would not work.

If your car is working properly these will not do a dam thing in terms of gaining performance. If you have a older rusted car, you *may* see some improvement back to its newer days, but you'll never gain anything above when it came off the factory line.

 

[thescreensavers]

^ thought so, I don't see my self spending 150 bucks for 50 bucks worth of cables ha.

I am interested into what " isolated DC system" means and how it deals with being grounded. There are Factory ground points. So what people are saying is that they are not enough.

 

[ShawnD1]

^ thought so, I don't see my self spending 150 bucks for 50 bucks worth of cables ha.

I am interested into what " isolated DC system" means and how it deals with being grounded. There are Factory ground points. So what people are saying is that they are not enough.

Sorry I thought you were talking about those metal connectors that drag on the road. Those are to connect the vehicle to earth ground which is to prevent static discharges. Tankers carrying gasoline have those for safety reasons. A car would have absolutely no use for one of those.

Apparently a "grounding kit" is to replace the stock thick-as-my-arm copper cable that ties the negative terminal to the frame of the car, correct? Yeah there's no reason to replace that unless you're running a one ton truck that needs a thousands amps running from the battery, and even then the lack of current available would be caused by corrosion on the terminals rather than the actual size or quality of the wire. If your car's electrical system is acting sketchy, it's extremely unlikely that the wire itself or car frame is damaged since there's really nothing that touches those wires. Just take the ground cable off, clean it with a wire brush and maybe some CLR or some kind of solvent designed to remove grime. The wire is good; the grime forming around the terminals is the problem. Using special 1337 pwnz0rz cables wouldn't help this because the awesome expensive cables will still have dirt and grime on the connection points and will still need to be cleaned if the grime becomes a problem.

So what is DC isolation, you asked. While your car is not tied to earth ground, the frame of the car still acts like a DC ground. That's nice because it means the system requires fewer wires to work and using the giant thousand pound frame as a current carrying conductor means it keeps the impedance low. What I should have said in my last post is that your car COMPUTER is isolated. Sensitive electronics are always isolated because the frame of your car is bound to pick up random electrical noise from the air, from radio towers, or even induced voltages by driving around power lines or train tracks. Isolation means the computer's power runs through a DC-DC converter to clean it up and remove all the noise. While things like your starter motor are powered by the frame of the car and 1 wire, the electronics are isolated and required 2 wires. There's no common point for the computer system to use; it needs its own dedicated wires. The computer's circuit is "isolated" from the rest of the car's electrical system.

If your car had bad grounding, it simply wouldn't work. My friend's Monte Carlo was having grounding problem and the car would mysteriously die for what seems like no reason. It had some grime on the battery terminals but it worked like new when we cleaned them with a wire brush.

It is possible for electronic noise to enter the computer circuitry from bad grounding techniques, but if it was bad enough to cause a problem your whole ECU would not work.

This! Bad grounding = car will not turn on!

 

[thescreensavers]

^ wow thanks for the explanation!

Easiest way to show what they do on the G35 is to show you a DIY of the kit http://g35driver.com/forums/engine-drivetrain-forced-induction-diy/275129-diy-1st-generation-g35-bettys-garage-grounding-wire-set-installation.html


Now that kit has "X" grounding points, a sponsor on the forum made another kit that has more ground points then the other kits and his include the "Auto transmission" so his works better blah blah blah

And you have people saying "It shifts a bit quicker and 2-3rd gear shift has been smoothed out"

in Manual mode 2-3 can sometimes be rougher then normal, so when someone says that the grounding eliminated it?

Check Picture 5 from the top, they always point to how wimpy that wire is, but as you said if that was not doing its job the HID's would not power on.

You also say that the ECU and the TCU(transmission computer) are isolated though DC-DC converter then there would be no difference, and that it has already been engineered to eliminate noise.

Which makes tons of sense.

But now that makes me think about something else, you see how they ground the throttle body, I am not sure if there are any factory grounding parts there, so could it improve the, fly-by-wire system? So people translate that into better throttle response?

 

[JCH13]

Cliff-Notes version: a grounding kit adds an extra ground wire to most of the main electrical components in the car.

Waste of money. It's very poor wiring practice to have a component connected to the chassis ground at multiple points, that can result in ground loops that are a PITA. It can be a cheap fix for electrical issues in an older car, but not the best.

 

[alkemyst]

The grounding 'kits' tend to be overkill, but at the same time having everything pre-terminated and proper length goes a long way.

I have an anvil crimper already and a ton of electrical tools/terminations.

I picked up a Streetwires 1/0 amp kit, some 4g KnuKonceptz wire and did my big three and set up a proper 1/0 ground in the trunk where everything is and powered from.

Good wire is not cheap.

 

[alkemyst]

Cliff-Notes version: a grounding kit adds an extra ground wire to most of the main electrical components in the car.

Waste of money. It's very poor wiring practice to have a component connected to the chassis ground at multiple points, that can result in ground loops that are a PITA. It can be a cheap fix for electrical issues in an older car, but not the best.

cars already ground at multiple points.

 

[ShawnD1]

Waste of money. It's very poor wiring practice to have a component connected to the chassis ground at multiple points, that can result in ground loops that are a PITA. It can be a cheap fix for electrical issues in an older car, but not the best.

This is exactly right. The length of the ground kit wires connected to the battery might all be the same length and size, but they are connecting to ground points on the frame at different distances from whatever is drawing current. If something like the starter or the massive 1000W RMS stereo in your trunk are pulling a lot of current, there will be different voltage drops at the different ground points. The more current drawn from the battery (blasting your subs while starting the car), the larger the voltage difference will be.
With a single ground wire from the battery to the frame, current just flows in a simple loop. With multiple ground points it will also go from battery(-), through ground wire A, to ground point A, through the frame of the car to ground point B, through ground wire B, which feeds back to ground wire A connected at battery(-).

 

[AMCRambler]

Only reason you would need to install another ground or a larger ground from your batt to the car chassis is if you changed it from stock in some manner. The only way I could see you needing this is if you upgraded your alternator to something with higher output. Bigger ground wires for more amps. In adequate grounds for the amps going through the wire could cause things to burn up.

Any additional equipment you might add like an amp or a capacitor should have it's own appropriately sized grounds as well, but they'll likely be in the trunk or in the vehicles cabin where the equipment is installed.

 

[JCH13]

cars already ground at multiple points.

Yes, but there aren't multiple grounds from one component to the chassis, i.e. there aren't 3 grounding straps from the block to the frame, there's typically just 1.

 

[alkemyst]

Many grounding kits still usually only have one ground block to frame.

 

[JCH13]

Many grounding kits still usually only have one ground block to frame.

If that replaces the stock one, great, many kits add an extra wire, which is the problem.

 

[thescreensavers]

They are not attaching more grounds to the body/frame(at least I think). Many of these cables go directly back to the ground of the battery, just attached to the motor and or attached to factory grounding points.

The bottom center of this picture, that wire goes to a factory ground point for the HID's, The Panel on the left is the battery compartment, so that one wire going into that direction is going to the Ground of the battery.

More pics here

As you see many ground points are not connected to electronics and just to the metal block of the motor.


Someone studying in EE said

if there are electronically controlled solenoids that activate the shifts, and these solenoids draw a large instantaneous current, then a better ground could (in theory) cause the solenoid to react faster.

could this be true?

 

[alkemyst]

If that replaces the stock one, great, many kits add an extra wire, which is the problem.

Well you shouldn't really remove the existing wire anyway. The new heavier ground should attach at the same points it does.

 

[alkemyst]

They are not attaching more grounds to the body/frame(at least I think). Many of these cables go directly back to the ground of the battery, just attached to the motor and or attached to factory grounding points.

The bottom center of this picture, that wire goes to a factory ground point for the HID's, The Panel on the left is the battery compartment, so that one wire going into that direction is going to the Ground of the battery.

As you see many ground points are not connected to electronics and just to the metal block of the motor.

Many kits bring everything back to the negative battery terminal in a ring ground formation.

Someone studying in EE said
...

Many people that have very good reputations on forums and in the motorsport world have had good luck with upgraded grounds solving some issues with electronics.

Doing the Big 3 for me solved some dimming issues.

I am sure on many cars these work on that just wire brushing the terminal and body contact point would help a lot.