Grounding Electrical Outlets

[Ilmater]

I'm buying a house where only two outlets are grounded. How do I go about grounding the rest of the outlets?

 

[nakedfrog]

I cheated and put in a GFCI outlet for my TV and such. It'll get me by until I feel froggy enough to do it myself or pay someone. No problems in the past 2+ years.

 

[Paperdoc]

It's not a simple matter because each receptacle box needs to have a cable to it from the fuse panel with THREE wires in it - black for hot, white for neutral, and bare for ground. If you have 2-prong outlets, VERY probable the box has only 2-wire cable coming from the fuse box. You would have to replace the cable to make this work.

One exception found on occasion: if the cable from fuse box to outlet box happens to be one of those spiral metallic types (called BX cable), the spiral metal casing itself is the ground lead. So IF you have that and IF the metal outer spiral is properly connected to the metal boxes, BOTH at the fuse box and in the outlet box, then you have a ground in place already. Not likely, though - very few people used BX cable in hidden-in-the-wall house wiring.

Be aware that simply mounting a three-prong outlet device in an ungrounded box so you can get away with plugging in three prongs is worse than no good! It does NOT provide any grounding at all, but it fools people into thinking it is safe, then fails when you need it. For that reason it is usually illegal under local electrical codes.

 

[Ilmater]

All the outlets are three prong, but only two are actually grounded.

 

[tranceport]

Pay attention to what paperdoc said.. What you see on the wall doesn't matter as much as what is IN the wall.

If you do not have 3 wires running to the socket then you will need to rewire.

 

[QED]

Don't listen to those other guys... you can ground any electrical outlet in 3 easy steps:



1) Lick finger

2) Stick finger in outlet

3) Congratulation-- your outlet is now grounded!

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: QED
Don't listen to those other guys... you can ground any electrical outlet in 3 easy steps:



1) Lick finger

2) Stick finger in outlet

3) Congratulation-- your outlet is now grounded!

You must have small... er, fingers.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: Ilmater
I'm buying a house where only two outlets are grounded. How do I go about grounding the rest of the outlets?

You re-wire the house. The advice about using a GFCI is the only NEC approved wiring modification to use grounded outlets on 2 wire systems.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: Ilmater
I'm buying a house where only two outlets are grounded. How do I go about grounding the rest of the outlets?

You re-wire the house. The advice about using a GFCI is the only NEC approved wiring modification to use grounded outlets on 2 wire systems.

I did only put the one in, I have proper grounded outlets the rest of the places I plug grounded appliances in.

 

[lupi]

I redid about half a dozen of my outlets with GFCIs. Seemed a lot easier than trying to run grounded power cables from the distro panel to everywhere in the house.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

I'm in the same boat, when I get a budget next year I'm going to blow a few hundred bucks and my dad and I are going to virtually rewire the entire house. Which means a lot of attic work.

 

[alkemyst]

if you want to do it yourself (I don't know why)...just tie a lead of copper to each of the ground screws at the outlets you want grounded. Take all those grounds and hold on to them outside on plain earth.

Good luck.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

I have this same issue and have read a few places that you can take a copper wire and ground it to the cold water pipe. That doesn't seem like a good idea to me, but I don't know as much as I want to know about electricity yet.

Also with the GFCI, do you need to run a ground from the GFCI outlet still or does it not need a ground wire run?

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
I have this same issue and have read a few places that you can take a copper wire and ground it to the cold water pipe. That doesn't seem like a good idea to me, but I don't know as much as I want to know about electricity yet.

Also with the GFCI, do you need to run a ground from the GFCI outlet still or does it not need a ground wire run?

The reason ground id there is to provide a safe path to EARTH in the event of a fault or short circuit.
Add ing a ground in an intermediate part of the electrical system can provide additional paths to ground by other devices on that branch circuit and if really poorly wired, that half of a single phase system. This is not proper wiring methodology and is deemed unsafe by most code enforcing agencies. And if it cause a fire, the arson inspectors will find evidence of it, notify the insurance company, and deny your insurance claim, and probably cancel your policy and keep your premiums. Maybe not.... your choice.

The GFCI provides fault protection without needing a (connected to EARTH) grounding conductor.
This is the only approved method for converting a two wire outlet to three wire,afaik.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
I have this same issue and have read a few places that you can take a copper wire and ground it to the cold water pipe. That doesn't seem like a good idea to me, but I don't know as much as I want to know about electricity yet.

Also with the GFCI, do you need to run a ground from the GFCI outlet still or does it not need a ground wire run?

The reason ground id there is to provide a safe path to EARTH in the event of a fault or short circuit.
Add ing a ground in an intermediate part of the electrical system can provide additional paths to ground by other devices on that branch circuit and if really poorly wired, that half of a single phase system. This is not proper wiring methodology and is deemed unsafe by most code enforcing agencies. And if it cause a fire, the arson inspectors will find evidence of it, notify the insurance company, and deny your insurance claim, and probably cancel your policy and keep your premiums. Maybe not.... your choice.

The GFCI provides fault protection without needing a (connected to EARTH) grounding conductor.
This is the only approved method for converting a two wire outlet to three wire,afaik.

Do I need to put a GFCI circuit at the breaker box, or just a GFCI outlet will do?

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
I have this same issue and have read a few places that you can take a copper wire and ground it to the cold water pipe. That doesn't seem like a good idea to me, but I don't know as much as I want to know about electricity yet.

Also with the GFCI, do you need to run a ground from the GFCI outlet still or does it not need a ground wire run?

The reason ground id there is to provide a safe path to EARTH in the event of a fault or short circuit.
Add ing a ground in an intermediate part of the electrical system can provide additional paths to ground by other devices on that branch circuit and if really poorly wired, that half of a single phase system. This is not proper wiring methodology and is deemed unsafe by most code enforcing agencies. And if it cause a fire, the arson inspectors will find evidence of it, notify the insurance company, and deny your insurance claim, and probably cancel your policy and keep your premiums. Maybe not.... your choice.

The GFCI provides fault protection without needing a (connected to EARTH) grounding conductor.
This is the only approved method for converting a two wire outlet to three wire,afaik.

Do I need to put a GFCI circuit at the breaker box, or just a GFCI outlet will do?

No, Yes.

 

[mooseracing]

Originally posted by: lupi
Seemed a lot easier than trying to run grounded power cables from the distro panel to everywhere in the house.

It's not to bad to replace wire with the right tools. I've helped re wire complete older houses, if the holes that the orginal wire is going through are looser fit it makes this job 10x easier.

I wouldn't ever contract that job out, it is expesive as hell, It owuld be cheaper for you to replace the drywall, insulation and do it yourself.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: mooseracing

Originally posted by: lupi
Seemed a lot easier than trying to run grounded power cables from the distro panel to everywhere in the house.

It's not to bad to replace wire with the right tools. I've helped re wire complete older houses, if the holes that the orginal wire is going through are looser fit it makes this job 10x easier.

I wouldn't ever contract that job out, it is expesive as hell, It owuld be cheaper for you to replace the drywall, insulation and do it yourself.

Except if you are renting the place.

 

[TheKub]

Originally posted by: Ilmater
Grounding Electrical Outlets

Talk to them in a stern voice and send them to their room??

 

[Gibson486]

Originally posted by: TheKub

Originally posted by: Ilmater
Grounding Electrical Outlets

Talk to them in a stern voice and send them to their room??

Todays outlets do not respond to that anymore.....you have to go through this process of hiring a professional to set them straight. Once you do that, the streets will be safe again and they will be prepared to take on any load in life.

 

[slsmnaz]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
I cheated and put in a GFCI outlet for my TV and such. It'll get me by until I feel froggy enough to do it myself or pay someone. No problems in the past 2+ years.

that's what I did.

 

[Paperdoc]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
I have this same issue and have read a few places that you can take a copper wire and ground it to the cold water pipe. That doesn't seem like a good idea to me, but I don't know as much as I want to know about electricity yet.

Also with the GFCI, do you need to run a ground from the GFCI outlet still or does it not need a ground wire run?

The reason ground id there is to provide a safe path to EARTH in the event of a fault or short circuit.
Add ing a ground in an intermediate part of the electrical system can provide additional paths to ground by other devices on that branch circuit and if really poorly wired, that half of a single phase system. This is not proper wiring methodology and is deemed unsafe by most code enforcing agencies. And if it cause a fire, the arson inspectors will find evidence of it, notify the insurance company, and deny your insurance claim, and probably cancel your policy and keep your premiums. Maybe not.... your choice.

The GFCI provides fault protection without needing a (connected to EARTH) grounding conductor.
This is the only approved method for converting a two wire outlet to three wire,afaik.

Do I need to put a GFCI circuit at the breaker box, or just a GFCI outlet will do?

You can do either, with one special note. If you do it with a GFCI at the outlet, it MUST be at the first outlet in the circuit. The GFCI's I have used have separate terminals or wires for "input" from power source (the fuse box) and "output" to the rest of the circuit. It protects its own sockets plus all those conected downstream from there, but it cannot protect what comes ahead of it. That is why it must be at the first box, and the rest of the circuit must be connected to its "output".

By the way, I'm using the term "fuse box" because almost all situations involving 2-wire cables with no bare Ground lead are on very old systems before breaker panels were used. So although it's possible, this situation is rare when your panel is made up of circuit breakers, because most of those systems had proper Grounding with associated 3-wire cabling to outlets.

True Grounds and GFCI's work differently, but the result is similar in terms of risk reduction. A good Ground at an outlet, connected by the bare wire in the 3-wire cable to the earth back at the fuse box, makes itself available to devices plugged in via the round third prong. Within the device you plug into the socket, the Ground should be connected to anything conductive that a user might contact electrically. Then if there is ever a fault in the device that allows current to reach those external contact points, two things happen simultaneously. The first is that the exposed contact point is still held at earth Ground (zero volts) potential so that nobody gets electrocuted. And the other is that the current has a direct low-resistance path to Ground sufficent to draw a very heavy current from the hot supply lead, causing the fuse to blow and shutting off all further possibility for danger.

A GFCI does not depend on a Ground. It constantly "measures" and compares the currents flowing in the hot and neutral leads of the circuit, which ought to be exactly equal at all times. If it detects a difference (over 5 mA, I believe), it assumes there is a circuit fault somewhere and "trips out" like a breaker does, shutting off the current supply on the leads. (The trip limit is set to be a good deal lower than the current that could cause health problems like heart attacks if it flowed through your body.) So although a GFCI does NOT provide the safety of a truly grounded exterior surface on the device plugged in, it does have an effective way of shutting off the power in most fault conditions.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: Paperdoc

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
I have this same issue and have read a few places that you can take a copper wire and ground it to the cold water pipe. That doesn't seem like a good idea to me, but I don't know as much as I want to know about electricity yet.

Also with the GFCI, do you need to run a ground from the GFCI outlet still or does it not need a ground wire run?

The reason ground id there is to provide a safe path to EARTH in the event of a fault or short circuit.
Add ing a ground in an intermediate part of the electrical system can provide additional paths to ground by other devices on that branch circuit and if really poorly wired, that half of a single phase system. This is not proper wiring methodology and is deemed unsafe by most code enforcing agencies. And if it cause a fire, the arson inspectors will find evidence of it, notify the insurance company, and deny your insurance claim, and probably cancel your policy and keep your premiums. Maybe not.... your choice.

The GFCI provides fault protection without needing a (connected to EARTH) grounding conductor.
This is the only approved method for converting a two wire outlet to three wire,afaik.

Do I need to put a GFCI circuit at the breaker box, or just a GFCI outlet will do?

You can do either, with one special note. If you do it with a GFCI at the outlet, it MUST be at the first outlet in the circuit. The GFCI's I have used have separate terminals or wires for "input" from power source (the fuse box) and "output" to the rest of the circuit. It protects its own sockets plus all those conected downstream from there, but it cannot protect what comes ahead of it. That is why it must be at the first box, and the rest of the circuit must be connected to its "output".

By the way, I'm using the term "fuse box" because almost all situations involving 2-wire cables with no bare Ground lead are on very old systems before breaker panels were used. So although it's possible, this situation is rare when your panel is made up of circuit breakers, because most of those systems had proper Grounding with associated 3-wire cabling to outlets.

True Grounds and GFCI's work differently, but the result is similar in terms of risk reduction. A good Ground at an outlet, connected by the bare wire in the 3-wire cable to the earth back at the fuse box, makes itself available to devices plugged in via the round third prong. Within the device you plug into the socket, the Ground should be connected to anything conductive that a user might contact electrically. Then if there is ever a fault in the device that allows current to reach those external contact points, two things happen simultaneously. The first is that the exposed contact point is still held at earth Ground (zero volts) potential so that nobody gets electrocuted. And the other is that the current has a direct low-resistance path to Ground sufficent to draw a very heavy current from the hot supply lead, causing the fuse to blow and shutting off all further possibility for danger.

A GFCI does not depend on a Ground. It constantly "measures" and compares the currents flowing in the hot and neutral leads of the circuit, which ought to be exactly equal at all times. If it detects a difference (over 5 mA, I believe), it assumes there is a circuit fault somewhere and "trips out" like a breaker does, shutting off the current supply on the leads. (The trip limit is set to be a good deal lower than the current that could cause health problems like heart attacks if it flowed through your body.) So although a GFCI does NOT provide the safety of a truly grounded exterior surface on the device plugged in, it does have an effective way of shutting off the power in most fault conditions.

Thanks for the help.

You mention that a GFCI outlet has to be the first on the circuit to protect the rest of the outlets on that circuit. I am wondering though, if the outlet I need it at is not the first on the circuit can I still just put the GFCI on that one (knowing full well that everything "upstream" from that circuit is not grounded/GFCI protected)?

 

[JDMnAR1]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
You mention that a GFCI outlet has to be the first on the circuit to protect the rest of the outlets on that circuit. I am wondering though, if the outlet I need it at is not the first on the circuit can I still just put the GFCI on that one (knowing full well that everything "upstream" from that circuit is not grounded/GFCI protected)?

That is correct. Wherever you put the GFCI outlet in sequence, it will only protect whatever outlets exist further downstream on the same circuit.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: JDMnAR1

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
You mention that a GFCI outlet has to be the first on the circuit to protect the rest of the outlets on that circuit. I am wondering though, if the outlet I need it at is not the first on the circuit can I still just put the GFCI on that one (knowing full well that everything "upstream" from that circuit is not grounded/GFCI protected)?

That is correct. Wherever you put the GFCI outlet in sequence, it will only protect whatever outlets exist further downstream on the same circuit.

Okay, I really hate to not do it properly (i.e. not going about proper grounding) but as its a rental I only can (or want to) do so much.