Gretzky done?

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
I understand your viewpoint b/c you're a blind Gretsky fanboy (sig tells us everything we need to know). You're devoid of any logic or reason, just as SF Giant fanboys will still say that Bonds didn't "knowingly take steroids". There's benefit of a doubt, and then there's just naivity.

I'm not a Gretzky "fanboy". I didn't even like the Oilers back then. If you think my sig "tells us everything we need to know" (am i on trial?), then it only shows your ignorance, not mine.

The three points you offered don't implicate Gretzky. They actually only serve to prove my point. He is not involved.

If my wife steals eleventy billion dollars from me and bets in an illegal sports book with it, am I guilty? Am I guilty by association? Obviously in your eyes I would be...

Let's see, you just called Gretsky a "great human being" after he lied to the public, plus you're an Oiler's fan. You say he's "not involved", wiretaps have him asking Tocchet how to get his wife off the hook. That's all we need to know, yes, and it sounds like you're naive to me.

I'll leave you with this blurb from ESPN, even though it won't change your blind view:
As much as Janet Jones is an individual separate from the hockey community with her own activities and pastimes, she remains inexorably linked to the most recognizable figure in the game, a figure that is not just a coach but a part-owner of an NHL team and the executive director of the Canadian Olympic team.

"This is serious. This is real serious," said one top former executive. "Wayne is so connected. So there's no way in my mind that Wayne couldn't know about what was going on with Janet."

 

[meltdown75]

Sp33ddemon, you have me pegged for some naive little easily-duped Gretzky bitch, so I'm not sure how continuing this would be productive. In case you didn't know, Gretzky is no longer a member of the Oilers organization. Being an Oilers fan has nothing to do with Gretz any more. nothing, nada, zilch. so please stop with that. you already used that angle, remember?

Yes, he in inexorably linked to Janet. It's his wife. Hard not to be.

Since when is ESPN the official authority on anything more than sports commentary? Do you think anyone outside of the US gives a crap about what ESPN thinks?

You've shown that you feel that he is guilty and you're ready to toss the book at him. I disagree. This alone makes me naive?

Innocent until proven guilty? Can you at least concede that?

It's your opinion that he is in the wrong. It's my opinion that he is not yet proven of any wrongdoing. Is that much at least clear?

Can you not agree that the bottom line is that there is no direct evidence to his involvement? Not one iota! If you cannot agree to this then you need to re-read what information has been provided.

Speculation. Rumours. Tale-spinning. Desire to crap on hockey and the game's greatest player ever. That is what we're seeing now, and you're doing nothing but propagating all of it.

He has done nothing wrong. Nothing.

The wiretap is irrelevant too.
- He finds out his wife is going to catch hell for illegal gambling
- He wants to see how he can get her out of trouble

Tell me how that isn't a completely common reaction to finding this out. Who else would he contact do address the issue other than his wife and Tocchet?

 

[coomar]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
I understand your viewpoint b/c you're a blind Gretsky fanboy (sig tells us everything we need to know). You're devoid of any logic or reason, just as SF Giant fanboys will still say that Bonds didn't "knowingly take steroids". There's benefit of a doubt, and then there's just naivity.

I'm not a Gretzky "fanboy". I didn't even like the Oilers back then. If you think my sig "tells us everything we need to know" (am i on trial?), then it only shows your ignorance, not mine.

The three points you offered don't implicate Gretzky. They actually only serve to prove my point. He is not involved.

If my wife steals eleventy billion dollars from me and bets in an illegal sports book with it, am I guilty? Am I guilty by association? Obviously in your eyes I would be...

Let's see, you just called Gretsky a "great human being" after he lied to the public, plus you're an Oiler's fan. You say he's "not involved", wiretaps have him asking Tocchet how to get his wife off the hook. That's all we need to know, yes, and it sounds like you're naive to me.

I'll leave you with this blurb from ESPN, even though it won't change your blind view:
As much as Janet Jones is an individual separate from the hockey community with her own activities and pastimes, she remains inexorably linked to the most recognizable figure in the game, a figure that is not just a coach but a part-owner of an NHL team and the executive director of the Canadian Olympic team.

"This is serious. This is real serious," said one top former executive. "Wayne is so connected. So there's no way in my mind that Wayne couldn't know about what was going on with Janet."

gretzky is like jordan, you never hear anything bad about him

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: meltdown75
Sp33ddemon, you have me pegged for some naive little easily-duped Gretzky bitch, so I'm not sure how continuing this would be productive. In case you didn't know, Gretzky is no longer a member of the Oilers organization. Being an Oilers fan has nothing to do with Gretz any more. nothing, nada, zilch. so please stop with that. you already used that angle, remember?

Yes, he in inexorably linked to Janet. It's his wife. Hard not to be.

Since when is ESPN the official authority on anything more than sports commentary? Do you think anyone outside of the US gives a crap about what ESPN thinks?

You've shown that you feel that he is guilty and you're ready to toss the book at him. I disagree. This alone makes me naive?

Innocent until proven guilty? Can you at least concede that?

It's your opinion that he is in the wrong. It's my opinion that he is not yet proven of any wrongdoing. Is that much at least clear?

Can you not agree that the bottom line is that there is no direct evidence to his involvement? Not one iota! If you cannot agree to this then you need to re-read what information has been provided.

Speculation. Rumours. Tale-spinning. Desire to crap on hockey and the game's greatest player ever. That is what we're seeing now, and you're doing nothing but propagating all of it.

He has done nothing wrong. Nothing.

The wiretap is irrelevant too.
- He finds out his wife is going to catch hell for illegal gambling
- He wants to see how he can get her out of trouble

Tell me how that isn't a completely common reaction to finding this out. Who else would he contact do address the issue other than his wife and Tocchet?

There is still no hard evidence against Barry Bonds that he "unknowingly" took steroids, but it's pretty obvious he did.

Gretsky said he didn't know of the betting ring, but wiretaps prove otherwise.

From ESPN: "Gretzky can be heard on wiretaps made within the past month discussing with Tocchet how his wife could avoid being implicated, a source told The Associated Press, speaking on the condition of anonymity because the investigation was ongoing.

Gretzky has said that he had no knowledge of the gambling ring."

That sure sounds like a lie to me. And if he initially lied about not knowing about the ring, then he's capable about lying about other things. This is fact, it's not my opinion he lied.

The Oiler's thing isn't an angle: you're telling me that as a fan of the Oilers, the fact that Gretsky is the greatest Oiler ever has no bearing on your defense for him?

 

[meltdown75]

That is precisely what I'm telling you.

I'm an Oilers fan, not a Gretzky fan. Of course he was the greatest Oiler ever. However, I was a Flames fan back when he played for them. Crazy, I know.

Honestly, I will concede naivety if you at least give me the fact that some people are jumping to conclusions.

I just believe that he can and will come out of this unscathed. Obviously his reputation has already taken a hit in the eyes of the public at large. Nothing can be done to prevent that. But in terms of actual wrongdoing, we'll have to wait and see I guess. Cheers, I'm off to lunch.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: meltdown75
That is precisely what I'm telling you.

I'm an Oilers fan, not a Gretzky fan. Of course he was the greatest Oiler ever. However, I was a Flames fan back when he played for them. Crazy, I know.

Honestly, I will concede naivety if you at least give me the fact that some people are jumping to conclusions.

I just believe that he can and will come out of this unscathed. Obviously his reputation has already taken a hit in the eyes of the public at large. Nothing can be done to prevent that. But in terms of actual wrongdoing, we'll have to wait and see I guess. Cheers, I'm off to lunch.

Ok, that is kinda odd about the Flames/Oilers thing.

He may come out unscathed, but it's not looking good. He's already lied about knowledge of the ring, he probably has a pretty good idea of what it's about with his best friend and wife in it. The two main things that will decide if the Feds have on wiretap about him is:
a) if he had his wife place bets for him.
b) if he, his wife, or Tocchet bet on hockey.

 

[meltdown75]

Either way, I'm puzzled.

One scenario has Janet basically stealing money from Gretzky and betting the money without his knowledge. Basically undermining his trust in her. For sports bets! huh?!

The other scenario would have Gretzky fully aware of the betting & legal implications, and seemingly willing to risk it all despite the consequences.

both of them kind of make you scratch your head

...

Yes. It is odd that I used to be a Flames fan