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Greenspan: Budget deficits pose a threat.

Estate taxes are unfair.. the money has already been taxed.. why is it taxed again? If you don't think the 'rich' are paying enough in taxes, then INCREASE their tax rate they pay when they earn it.. don't back door it by screwing them after they are dead.

I don't think anyone would argue that an out of control debt is bad, however, some would argue that the debt is truly out of control or not.. and others would argue the way to control it is not by increasing taxes.
 
Originally posted by: Crimson
Estate taxes are unfair.. the money has already been taxed.. why is it taxed again? If you don't think the 'rich' are paying enough in taxes, then INCREASE their tax rate they pay when they earn it.. don't back door it by screwing them after they are dead.

I don't think anyone would argue that an out of control debt is bad, however, some would argue that the debt is truly out of control or not.. and others would argue the way to control it is not by increasing taxes.

I think it's much better to be taxed when you are dead than to have higher taxes when you are alive. You can't take the money to the grave when you are dead, but you sure can spend it when you are alive.
 
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: Crimson
Estate taxes are unfair.. the money has already been taxed.. why is it taxed again? If you don't think the 'rich' are paying enough in taxes, then INCREASE their tax rate they pay when they earn it.. don't back door it by screwing them after they are dead.

I don't think anyone would argue that an out of control debt is bad, however, some would argue that the debt is truly out of control or not.. and others would argue the way to control it is not by increasing taxes.

I think it's much better to be taxed when you are dead than to have higher taxes when you are alive. You can't take the money to the grave when you are dead, but you sure can spend it when you are alive.

When was the last time you looked at the cost of a funeral 🙁

 
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: Crimson
Estate taxes are unfair.. the money has already been taxed.. why is it taxed again? If you don't think the 'rich' are paying enough in taxes, then INCREASE their tax rate they pay when they earn it.. don't back door it by screwing them after they are dead.

I don't think anyone would argue that an out of control debt is bad, however, some would argue that the debt is truly out of control or not.. and others would argue the way to control it is not by increasing taxes.

I think it's much better to be taxed when you are dead than to have higher taxes when you are alive. You can't take the money to the grave when you are dead, but you sure can spend it when you are alive.

I disagree.. you can take it to the grave, and your rights should not end after you die. Its your money, you earned it, you payed taxes on it.. Why should that change after you are dead? If I decide to work my whole life to save up 1 million dollars to leave for my children, why don't I have the right to do that? Don't think what YOU think is best is necessarily what OTHERS think is best for their money.
 
Originally posted by: Crimson
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: Crimson
Estate taxes are unfair.. the money has already been taxed.. why is it taxed again? If you don't think the 'rich' are paying enough in taxes, then INCREASE their tax rate they pay when they earn it.. don't back door it by screwing them after they are dead.

I don't think anyone would argue that an out of control debt is bad, however, some would argue that the debt is truly out of control or not.. and others would argue the way to control it is not by increasing taxes.

I think it's much better to be taxed when you are dead than to have higher taxes when you are alive. You can't take the money to the grave when you are dead, but you sure can spend it when you are alive.

I disagree.. you can take it to the grave, and your rights should not end after you die. Its your money, you earned it, you payed taxes on it.. Why should that change after you are dead? If I decide to work my whole life to save up 1 million dollars to leave for my children, why don't I have the right to do that? Don't think what YOU think is best is necessarily what OTHERS think is best for their money.

Your rights do die after you die. Weren't republicans b!tching about some people who voted absentee and died before the election?
 
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: Crimson
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: Crimson
Estate taxes are unfair.. the money has already been taxed.. why is it taxed again? If you don't think the 'rich' are paying enough in taxes, then INCREASE their tax rate they pay when they earn it.. don't back door it by screwing them after they are dead.

I don't think anyone would argue that an out of control debt is bad, however, some would argue that the debt is truly out of control or not.. and others would argue the way to control it is not by increasing taxes.

I think it's much better to be taxed when you are dead than to have higher taxes when you are alive. You can't take the money to the grave when you are dead, but you sure can spend it when you are alive.

I disagree.. you can take it to the grave, and your rights should not end after you die. Its your money, you earned it, you payed taxes on it.. Why should that change after you are dead? If I decide to work my whole life to save up 1 million dollars to leave for my children, why don't I have the right to do that? Don't think what YOU think is best is necessarily what OTHERS think is best for their money.

Your rights do die after you die. Weren't republicans b!tching about some people who voted absentee and died before the election?

Bahahahaha

I agree with both Crimmy and ST on this.

Should not have to pay taxes twice after you die and we should never "lose" our rights just because we are dead. Another discrimination.

This is a problem because the Rich are not paying their fair share of taxes when they are alive, period.
 
Originally posted by: Crimson
Estate taxes are unfair.. the money has already been taxed.. why is it taxed again? If you don't think the 'rich' are paying enough in taxes, then INCREASE their tax rate they pay when they earn it.. don't back door it by screwing them after they are dead.

I don't think anyone would argue that an out of control debt is bad, however, some would argue that the debt is truly out of control or not.. and others would argue the way to control it is not by increasing taxes.

All money has already been taxed. When I pay someone to do something, I am doing so with money I earned that has already been taxed.
 
Originally posted by: Crimson
Estate taxes are unfair.. the money has already been taxed.. why is it taxed again? If you don't think the 'rich' are paying enough in taxes, then INCREASE their tax rate they pay when they earn it.. don't back door it by screwing them after they are dead.

I don't think anyone would argue that an out of control debt is bad, however, some would argue that the debt is truly out of control or not.. and others would argue the way to control it is not by increasing taxes.

Not sure where this came from. But since you've brought it up, and no one could answer my question in the actual 'estate tax' thread, maybe you can help me.

With all of the taxes that we are subjected to, why is the estate tax the one that people scream about the most? There's sales tax (a re-tax that affects everyone), luxury taxes (re-tax for the rich), property taxes (re-tax for homeowners), registration fees (re-tax on car owners), etc., etc. What makes the estate tax so special? Doesn't it make more sense to give tax breaks to people who are able to spend the money that they worked for, rather than give them a tax break after they've died?

I should make a few things clear before the flame-fest starts:
1. I feel that all estates should be taxed. It wouldn't be fair of me to require rich people to pay an estate tax if I wasn't willing to let the same thing happen to me when I die. There are actually a few other stipulations that I'd also add, all of which you can find here. (you'll have to scroll down near the bottom-sorry)
2. I have to agree that increasing taxes alone will not fix the defecit problem. The government must learn to control its spending if it's to pay off the national debt.
 
Just an interesting opinion piece in the St. Louis Post Dispatch

TAXES: Let the "death tax" live
By JOSEPH LOSOS

04/20/2005

The U.S. House of Representatives recently passed by a wide margin a bill to abolish the estate tax after 2009. If this becomes law - i.e., if the Senate concurs - it will signify a major change in our fiscal culture.

Repealing this tax, obviously, would lower government revenue at a time when federal deficits are climbing to alarming levels, and efforts to cut spending are fierce. Simply from a financial viewpoint, it is a very strange time to be eliminating revenue, even if this particular loss would be comparatively small.

But the repeal of this levy - labeled the "death tax" by its foes - involves larger social and philosophical issues.

This tax on the wealth of the rich when they die passed in much the present form in 1916 (albeit at much lower rates). The Progressive Era drive to limit the power of great wealth and increase social equality, which was so important after 1900 and produced the reimposition of a federal income tax, culminated in the passage of this law.

On the whole, it wasn't a measure to raise revenue so much as a significant tool in curbing the generational accumulation of massive wealth. Proponents of the law pushed it as another way to dismantle what one of them called the "industrial feudalism" of big money - the power of the Rockefellers, Morgans and other familial business combines. In a broad sense, the progressive inheritance tax complemented the progressive income tax.

To the surprise of many European and domestic radical observers, the United States never became a land where socialist parties thrived. Instead, capitalism remained the dominant ethos, but progressive taxation, including the inheritance taxes, supported laws aiming for greater economic and social equality.

The end result of the Progressive Era was a sort of grand compromise; a society where, to paraphrase President Calvin Coolidge, the main business of America was business, but with the addition of certain limits and public control. The public portion of that system grew during the New Deal years and declined in the past 50 years or so, but the blend has been a staple of American life these last hundred years.

Regardless of the revenue it raised, the tax on inherited wealth has been a symbolically important part of that compromise. As one left-wing student of this subject, John Brittain, has remarked, "The inheritance of material advantage stands in sharp contrast to the accumulation of personal wealth through a person's own efforts during his lifetime. An inheritance entails no productive activity."

This is why some people of immense wealth, often self-made multimillionaires, have supported severe taxes on inheritance. Andrew Carnegie famously asserted that it was a disgrace to die rich and advocated heavy taxes at death for his peers who didn't give away their money while they were alive. Warren Buffet and the Gateses, father and son, do not go quite that far, but they are on record as sharing similar beliefs.

Encouraging the retention of money by those who create wealth tends to be more socially acceptable than the mere receipt of wealth from others. This is not to say that the preservation of family assets and the claims of individual choice are not relevant; the issue is not confiscation of all wealth but a surrender of a portion of it, with substantial deductibles to insulate the mildly affluent.

Almost nobody likes to pay taxes; April 15 is not a joyous day. But is it worse for the dead to suffer than the living? Yes, the living actually pay the inheritance tax: the fortunate beneficiaries of estates. But if there is something ghoulish about paying taxes at the time of death, surely it is equally ghoulish to collect or transfer money from those who have died.

Benjamin Franklin said that nothing was inevitable except death and taxes. The connection between the two is very old; indeed, taxes on inheritance are among the oldest levies in history. To break that nexus is to injure a social compact of almost 100 years. It is a radical and foolish step.

Joseph Losos is a St. Louis investment adviser.
 
Seems to me that if Greenspan says it's a threat to this country, Republicans have an obligation to address it, not make it worse by passing more tax cuts.
 
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Seems to me that if Greenspan says it's a threat to this country, Republicans have an obligation to address it, not make it worse by passing more tax cuts.

Nah, they'll just keep making a mess until the Dems get into office and expect them to fix it.
 
Originally posted by: redlotus
Originally posted by: Crimson
Estate taxes are unfair.. the money has already been taxed.. why is it taxed again? If you don't think the 'rich' are paying enough in taxes, then INCREASE their tax rate they pay when they earn it.. don't back door it by screwing them after they are dead.

I don't think anyone would argue that an out of control debt is bad, however, some would argue that the debt is truly out of control or not.. and others would argue the way to control it is not by increasing taxes.

Not sure where this came from. But since you've brought it up, and no one could answer my question in the actual 'estate tax' thread, maybe you can help me.

With all of the taxes that we are subjected to, why is the estate tax the one that people scream about the most? There's sales tax (a re-tax that affects everyone), luxury taxes (re-tax for the rich), property taxes (re-tax for homeowners), registration fees (re-tax on car owners), etc., etc. What makes the estate tax so special? Doesn't it make more sense to give tax breaks to people who are able to spend the money that they worked for, rather than give them a tax break after they've died?

I should make a few things clear before the flame-fest starts:
1. I feel that all estates should be taxed. It wouldn't be fair of me to require rich people to pay an estate tax if I wasn't willing to let the same thing happen to me when I die. There are actually a few other stipulations that I'd also add, all of which you can find here. (you'll have to scroll down near the bottom-sorry)
2. I have to agree that increasing taxes alone will not fix the defecit problem. The government must learn to control its spending if it's to pay off the national debt.

Well put redlotus. Much better articulated than my point. :thumbsup:
 
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Seems to me that if Greenspan says it's a threat to this country, Republicans have an obligation to address it, not make it worse by passing more tax cuts.

Duh... the deficit is high because taxes are high. If we lower taxes, revenues will rise and the defecit will shrink.

Just think, a 0% tax rate will yield infinate revenue!
 
estate tax makes sense to me, the beneficiaries are receiving income, so they pay taxes on it. same thing with a gift tax, or a tax on lottery and gambling winnings (which are also "double taxed").

make a $5 million limit on it though if they want, so that anyone with estates smaller than $5 million wont have to pay. right now, isnt the limit 1.5 million, so 99% of will never have to worry about estate tax.
 
Originally posted by: SuperTool
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s...1&u=/ap/20050421/ap_on_bi_ge/greenspan

"The federal budget is on an unsustainable path, in which large deficits result in rising interest rates and ever-growing interest payments that augment deficits in future years," Greenspan said.

Where are all these conservatives who quoted Greenspan to back up their SS plan now?


Um thank you for pointing out the obvious lol
Greenspan as usual is right. Now I think you should listen to him about SS.


 
With all of the taxes that we are subjected to, why is the estate tax the one that people scream about the most? There's sales tax (a re-tax that affects everyone), luxury taxes (re-tax for the rich), property taxes (re-tax for homeowners), registration fees (re-tax on car owners), etc., etc. What makes the estate tax so special? Doesn't it make more sense to give tax breaks to people who are able to spend the money that they worked for, rather than give them a tax break after they've died?

because there are many people who build up nest eggs and estates to pass onto their children so their children can have a chance at a better life. If somebody works for 80 years and gathers a few million dollars. What right does a beauracrat in washington have to take 50% of it just because the person died?


btw the only reason why the estate tax passed was because the politicians played the class war game. Unsurprisingly once they taxed the top 1% of the nation they saw the possibility to tax the other 99% and did through the years.


 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: SuperTool
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s...1&u=/ap/20050421/ap_on_bi_ge/greenspan

"The federal budget is on an unsustainable path, in which large deficits result in rising interest rates and ever-growing interest payments that augment deficits in future years," Greenspan said.

Where are all these conservatives who quoted Greenspan to back up their SS plan now?


Um thank you for pointing out the obvious lol
Greenspan as usual is right. Now I think you should listen to him about SS.


I will, when Republicans balance the budget 😀
 
Hopefully sooner than later.

Time to put a cap on spending for the next 5 years. Will democrats go along or whine govt programs are being cut, kids on the street, homeless being killed by the cap on spending?

 
Originally posted by: conjur
Took Greenspan this long to realize this? 😕

No, he was talking about deficit spending being a problem at least 2 years ago. Not sure why this is big news now however.

 
The only spending cut the leftist want is a cut on defense.
I say we cut every social program by a mere 10%. Watch them scream bloody murder!
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: conjur
Took Greenspan this long to realize this? 😕

No, he was talking about deficit spending being a problem at least 2 years ago. Not sure why this is big news now however.
Well, he obviously felt a need to reiterate.
 
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: conjur
Took Greenspan this long to realize this? 😕

No, he was talking about deficit spending being a problem at least 2 years ago. Not sure why this is big news now however.
Well, he obviously felt a need to reiterate.

At this point it is all he can do.
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Hopefully sooner than later.

Time to put a cap on spending for the next 5 years. Will democrats go along or whine govt programs are being cut, kids on the street, homeless being killed by the cap on spending?

You are assuming the republicans will want to cut spending. Unlikely, considering they've increased it immensely in the last 4 years they were in power.
 
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