Greece elections- Man who promises the most from the public treasury will win

[theeedude]

And if you're Greece you can't borrow your way into prosperity, or print enough money to get there either.

If Greece leaves and drops the Euro I predict a booming tourism market.

If I were them though, I'd think about enacting restrictions on foreigners buying up real estate.

Fern

If Greece borrowed money for fiscal stimulus, it would have a more sustainable debt load than the current situation where it kept the debt stable but allowed its economy to shrink by a third. Paradox of thrift.

Anyways, no point arguing about it, the proof is already in the pudding. Austerity has failed miserably, even in it's stated goal of making Greek debt more manageable. If Euro-zone leadership insists on Greece continuing down a failed economic path that is causing nothing but misery for no benefit, then Greece should leave the Euro.

 

[Bitek]

It'll be interesting to see how far the rest of Europe goes to keep them in.

It'll be even more interesting if they leave, say 'fuck your debt' and end up in a better situation like Iceland. I guess thats the nightmare for the financial establishment. That other economies follow.

Keep your eyes on Spain. Austerity has produced 24% unemployment and wage deflation. Its esp hard on the youth.

Loss of opportunity =>rise of extremism => social unrest

Foolish German/Austrian economics is going to tear Europe apart.
This has been predicted for years, and we're left watching it in slow motion.

 

[halik]

Keep your eyes on Spain. Austerity has produced 24% unemployment and wage deflation. Its esp hard on the youth.

Loss of opportunity =>rise of extremism => social unrest

Foolish German/Austrian economics is going to tear Europe apart.
This has been predicted for years, and we're left watching it in slow motion.

The whole idea was doomed from the start, it's a "union" in word only. They tried to mash several heterogeneous cultures with varying degrees of work ethic together and low and behold, you still can't get south europeans to work and can't get germans to backstop everything.

Brits have been laughing about retaining the GBP for the last 5 years.

 

[halik]

Hyperinflation hasn't hit the US because the Chicago school of economics is terrible and should be ignored. That last bit was just a lil snark.

You're thinking Austrian school, not Chicago school ...

 

[fskimospy]

You're thinking Austrian school, not Chicago school ...

It's really both. Sure the Austrians have been even more hyperbolic in their claims but Chicago economists also wrongly thought we would be seeing major inflation.

Basically the only people who got it right were the Keynesians.

 

[rudder]

Ideas stolen from the Obama/Democrat playbook no doubt.

 

[glenn1]

Greece borrows in a currency they dont control.

You are seriously so goddamn stupid.

Sure, it's because we borrow in dollars therefore that debt doesn't matter. Have fun looting what's left of our future national prosperity with your "stimulus" for the next few years until debt servicing costs completely eat the budget. One way or the other the great welfare state is going away, either by choice or lack of funds. Not that you give a fuck about anything further away than 5 minutes from now. And once interest rates start going up to more normal levels and ZIRP is history this chart is going to look optimistic.

 

[fskimospy]

Sure, it's because we borrow in dollars therefore that debt doesn't matter. Have fun looting what's left of our future national prosperity with your "stimulus" for the next few years until debt servicing costs completely eat the budget. One way or the other the great welfare state is going away, either by choice or lack of funds. Not that you give a fuck about anything further away than 5 minutes from now. And once interest rates start going up to more normal levels and ZIRP is history this chart is going to look optimistic.

You're right, we should have followed your advice and engaged in austerity policies. That worked out really well for Europe.

You would think that six straight years of being wrong about economics would make you reconsider. Instead it seems to have only enraged you further. If you gave a fuck about anything other than adhering to what your ideology tells you must be right you would have admitted this by now. It must kill you that the Hated Libruls were so right and you 'common sense conservatives' were so wrong.

Oh, and the 'great welfare state' is here to stay. If clinging to the idea that even though you've been wrong about everything recently that someday you'll be magically proven right helps salve your ego, maybe that's not the worst thing.

 

[KAZANI]

you still can't get south europeans to work and can't get germans to backstop everything.

Vested interest employing oversimplification in order to exploit prejudice. :thumbsdown:

 

[amyklai]

Keep your eyes on Spain. Austerity has produced 24% unemployment and wage deflation. Its esp hard on the youth.

Loss of opportunity =>rise of extremism => social unrest

Foolish German/Austrian economics is going to tear Europe apart.
This has been predicted for years, and we're left watching it in slow motion.

Yeah, it's not like the collapse of an overinflated construction sector has anything to do with Spain. If that pesky austerity wasn't forced on them, they'd still be building house after house after house even though there's no real demand....

Same with Greece. Tsipras promised things like reemploying thousands of state employees into the still extremely bloated public sector and taking back reforms on working laws etc. Because that's how you really get a weak economy rolling...

 

[glenn1]

Yeah, it's not like the collapse of an overinflated construction sector has anything to do with Spain. If that pesky austerity wasn't forced on them, they'd still be building house after house after house even though there's no real demand....

Same with Greece. Tsipras promised things like reemploying thousands of state employees into the still extremely bloated public sector and taking back reforms on working laws etc. Because that's how you really get a weak economy rolling...

But stimulus! As long as some future taxpayer not yet born is the one who winds up paying for it the Keynesians don't give a fuck. Max out the credit card as quickly as possible and let the next guys figure out how to pay for it.

 

[amyklai]

But stimulus! As long as some future taxpayer not yet born is the one who winds up paying for it the Keynesians don't give a fuck. Max out the credit card as quickly as possible and let the next guys figure out how to pay for it.

"Austerity" has become a code word for "we don't want to do a damn thing about nepotism / corruption / vested interests / structural problems and instead of doing some painful reforms within our country we blame the EU / Germany / the banks etc".

The additional twist for Greece is that they made the have-nots suffer while keeping the privileges of the wealthy largely intact.

And now they elect an ultra leftist anti-establishment Santa who promptly goes on to form a coalition with a party from the far right whose leader is married to a shipping company owner. Oh the ironing.

 

[glenn1]

"Austerity" has become a code word for "we don't want to do a damn thing about nepotism / corruption / vested interests / structural problems and instead of doing some painful reforms within our country we blame the EU / Germany / the banks etc".

The additional twist for Greece is that they made the have-nots suffer while keeping the privileges of the wealthy largely intact.

And now they elect an ultra leftist anti-establishment Santa who promptly goes on to form a coalition with a party from the far right whose leader is married to a shipping company owner. Oh the ironing.

Don't you worry then, the Greeks have already come up with a solution. But don't worry, no doubt Eskimospy is falling over himself to join Paul Krugman in saying that lack of stimulus is the problem in Greece and they think not paying taxes is a great development.

Greeks stop paying taxes in expectation of Syriza poll victory



A reluctance to pay taxes was much criticised by Greece’s creditors as one reason why the country needed a big international bailout. Now many Greeks are again avoiding the taxman as they bet the radical left Syriza party will quickly loosen fiscal policy if it comes to power in Sunday’s general election.

A finance ministry official confirmed on Friday that state revenues had collapsed this month. “It’s normal for the tax take to decline during an election campaign but this time it’s more noticeable,” the official said, avoiding any specific figures on the projected shortfall.


However, two private sector economists forecast the shortfall could exceed €1.5bn, or more than 40 per cent of projected revenues for January.

Angeliki Mousouri, a dentist who is paying off more than €20,000 of tax arrears, said she missed a monthly instalment due in December.

“I don’t expect to be penalised,” she said. “If Syriza is the government they will show leniency to cash-strapped taxpayers.”


<snip>

 

[fskimospy]

"Austerity" has become a code word for "we don't want to do a damn thing about nepotism / corruption / vested interests / structural problems and instead of doing some painful reforms within our country we blame the EU / Germany / the banks etc".

Are you claiming Greece hasn't engaged in massive austerity? Primary government spending has fallen by nearly 25%.

Greece acted really stupidly before the recession, but at this point blaming the Germans for bad economies in Europe is completely correct. Germany exploited the Euro before the crisis and now they aren't willing to pay the piper.

The additional twist for Greece is that they made the have-nots suffer while keeping the privileges of the wealthy largely intact.

And now they elect an ultra leftist anti-establishment Santa who promptly goes on to form a coalition with a party from the far right whose leader is married to a shipping company owner. Oh the ironing.

It's an anti-austerity coalition, so it's not particularly surprising.

 

[Jhhnn]

The whole idea was doomed from the start, it's a "union" in word only. They tried to mash several heterogeneous cultures with varying degrees of work ethic together and low and behold, you still can't get south europeans to work and can't get germans to backstop everything.

Brits have been laughing about retaining the GBP for the last 5 years.

Heh. Here in the US, we just subsidize low productivity regions, like Mississippi & a lot of other "conservative" states as well. Consequently, they don't owe us a thing, & they act like it, too.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_reck..._guess_who_benefits_more_from_your_taxes.html

 

[Jaskalas]

Heh. Here in the US, we just subsidize low productivity regions, like Mississippi & a lot of other "conservative" states as well. Consequently, they don't owe us a thing, & they act like it, too.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_reck..._guess_who_benefits_more_from_your_taxes.html

So if the EU wants to remain functional, it needs to get with the program and start subsidizing "low productivity regions"?

 

[theeedude]

So if the EU wants to remain functional, it needs to get with the program and start subsidizing "low productivity regions"?

If they want to maintain a currency union, yes.
Currency is the blow off valve. If productivity falls behind wages, currency can fall to compensate for it.

 

[soulcougher73]

So...just like our elections then?

 

[Genx87]

So it seems to me Greece has one terrible short term option with better long term potential. They need to leave the Euro and go back to printing their own currency.

Or the EU needs to mimic our economic model where each country(state in our case) balances their budgets. And the federal or in this case EU funds different projects within each country or carries social welfare programs.

But given Europes national identities. I think it will be difficult to sell French and Germans on funding social benefits for Greeks and Spaniards. We dont really have state identities here. Unless it deals with an inconsequential sports team.

 

[chucky2]

So...just like our elections then?

Haha, exactly. Watching Obama and McCain at the '08 townhall was so F'd up hilarious it was crazy. They needed an auctioneer dub over both of them...the US is no better than Greece, we just control our currency so get to do even more F'd up shit...

 

[piasabird]

How is this different from the USA? Could say the same thing about Obama.

 

[marincounty]

You meant GWB right? I seem to remember "surpluses as far as the eye can see" and promised tax cut checks to millions. People couldn't wait to get their checks.
What could possibly go wrong?

 

[theeedude]

More like: man who promises growth through austerity, but delivers 30% GDP collapse, loses.

 

[glenn1]

More like: man who promises growth through austerity, but delivers 30% GDP collapse, loses.

And in another year or maybe less, it'll be like this: Man who promised end to austerity and cutbacks of supremely bloated workforce, loses credit funding from EU sponsors and anyone else and government has no money to do jack-shit making austerity seem like the good old days in comparison.

 

[theeedude]

And in another year or maybe less, it'll be like this: Man who promised end to austerity and cutbacks of supremely bloated workforce, loses credit funding from EU sponsors and anyone else and government has no money to do jack-shit making austerity seem like the good old days in comparison.

Credit funding from EU sponsors that comes with austerity conditions that were promised, just like our Republicans are promising, to create growth, but instead caused their economy to contract 30% and 25% unemployment. Such good old days, for sure. EU will have to restructure Greek debt and allow for fiscal stimulus, or it's going to get none of their $250B back, and probably have to spend a similar amount dealing with repercussions and peripheral contagion risk from Grexit.