Greece elections- Man who promises the most from the public treasury will win

[JEDI]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/25/europe/greece-elections/index.html

Greece has been hammered by austerity measures because of the govts careless over spending which allowed Greece citizens a good standard of living.

well, the pyramid scheme finally collapsed a few years ago and were forced to cut spending, govt worker paychecks and pensions to get a bailout from the European Community.

Today is election day and the person who promises the most relief from the austerity measures is leading in the polls.

problem is that his 'plan' is thin on details.
The party has vowed to renegotiate Greece's bailout and get some of its debt written off.


I predict the sheep citizens of Greece will vote this guy in. they want their above market benefits back despite the financial conditions not allowing for it.

This guy is going to get Greece kicked out of the Eurozone. they're going to be left swinging in the wind and fend for themselves in the free market.
Switching back to the Greek Drachma from the Euro would be suicide.

 

[Annisman*]

Wasn't it Limbaugh who said it was 'hard to run against Santa Clause' ? It's why I think no fiscally responsible president will ever be elected again (in America).

 

[Bitek]

Why would it be suicide?
What the Greeks have now is a slow-motion suicide that very much comes from the way the Eurozone and it's currency is structured, and the impossible austerity measures that have been forced upon them.

Yes, the Greeks were particularly irresponsible and corrupt, but if that's the whole understanding you have of the crisis in Europe, then you are just as ignorant as those you are bashing.

The collapse of the Euro has always been a very real possibility, and the decision makers in Germany have done nothing but push the continent towards fiscal stagnation, which will beget extremism, then conflict, then collapse.

Read up on the state of the eurozone, the fall into deflation, the current stagnation, and how the balance of payments of the eurozone between Germany and the periphery is driving the "success" in Germany at the expense of its neighbors, and how it's fundamentally impossible to create that same success in the pigs without the Euro and the German economy greatly changing as well.
Or watch Europe continue to do nothing as they fall back into extremism and conflict.

 

[unokitty]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/25/europe/greece-elections/index.html

Greece has been hammered by austerity measures because of the govts careless over spending which allowed Greece citizens a good standard of living...

Switching back to the Greek Drachma from the Euro would be suicide.

Michael Lewis on NPR

In Greece, he says, the government initially disguised the true state of its finances with the help of U.S. bankers. Goldman Sachs, for example, did off-market currency trades with the government of Greece.

"[Those trades] enabled the Greek government to book upfront a big profit, but down the road [the Greek government] would have to repay Goldman Sachs quite a bit," Lewis says. "So [Goldman Sachs] lent the government money without saying that's what they were doing. If you did this in the corporate world, a bunch of people would be put in jail. They helped the Greek government rig its books so that they looked acceptable to the European Union so they'd be admitted to the euro[zone]."

After adopting the euro, Lewis says, Greece borrowed huge sums of money to do things like run the world's most unprofitable railroad and pay people not to show up to their jobs.

"It's a corrupt enterprise," he says. "When a party came to power, they'd give away lots of goodies.

In Greece, it has been obvious for years that the status quo wouldn't hold...

Uno

 

[fskimospy]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/25/europe/greece-elections/index.html

Greece has been hammered by austerity measures because of the govts careless over spending which allowed Greece citizens a good standard of living.

well, the pyramid scheme finally collapsed a few years ago and were forced to cut spending, govt worker paychecks and pensions to get a bailout from the European Community.

Today is election day and the person who promises the most relief from the austerity measures is leading in the polls.

problem is that his 'plan' is thin on details.
The party has vowed to renegotiate Greece's bailout and get some of its debt written off.


I predict the sheep citizens of Greece will vote this guy in. they want their above market benefits back despite the financial conditions not allowing for it.

This guy is going to get Greece kicked out of the Eurozone. they're going to be left swinging in the wind and fend for themselves in the free market.
Switching back to the Greek Drachma from the Euro would be suicide.

Getting off the Euro would be painful at first but probably in Greece's long term interests.

Greece fucked up initially by living beyond its means, but Germany is the real problem now. It is getting to the point where a good portion of the European periphery would be better off away from the Euro. Germany used it to fuck them over.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

To me Greece is essentially a person who is so underwater in debt they have no hope of being able to pay it back. Bankruptcy is the best option to start off clean. If I were Greek I'd vote that route. Yes it would be painful however I wouldn't want other Euro zone countries deciding what's best.

 

[x26]

Sounds Exactly like the good ole USA.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

In Greece, it has been obvious for years that the status quo wouldn't hold...

Greece did well for a long time then after the Euro things got tougher, but money was pretty much shoved at them. It was like that animated gif of Obama throwing dollars in the air. Well prosperity followed, but with it debt that Greece could not afford. Now they're stuck.

 

[fskimospy]

Greece did well for a long time then after the Euro things got tougher, but money was pretty much shoved at them. It was like that animated gif of Obama throwing dollars in the air. Well prosperity followed, but with it debt that Greece could not afford. Now they're stuck.

The problem was part their irresponsible government (aided by eurozone membership) and part a loss of competitiveness that came from Germany using the Euro to screw Southern Europe. Germany remains unwilling to do what is necessary to un-fuck their exchange rates so we get grinding deflationary spirals in the south that appears to be coming back to haunt Germany too.

 

[theeedude]

What has austerity done for Greece?

 

[Jaskalas]

Anti-bailout party wins in Greece...

'The Left's time has come!'

Well then.... guess it's time to see what stimulus can do for Greece.
[FONT=ARIAL,VERDANA,HELVETICA][SIZE=+7] [/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[fskimospy]

Anti-bailout party wins in Greece...

'The Left's time has come!'

Well then.... guess it's time to see what stimulus can do for Greece.
[FONT=ARIAL,VERDANA,HELVETICA][SIZE=+7] [/SIZE][/FONT]

We won't really, unless Greece leaves the euro.

They don't really have the ability to deficit spend in euros because they don't issue them.

 

[theeedude]

Anti-bailout party wins in Greece...

'The Left's time has come!'

Well then.... guess it's time to see what stimulus can do for Greece.
[FONT=ARIAL,VERDANA,HELVETICA][SIZE=+7] [/SIZE][/FONT]

What has austerity done for Greece?
We were told about how profligate the Greeks were before the crisis. Maybe so. But how has tightening of their belts to supposedly pay down debt worked out? Debt has held steady, but GDP collapsed 30%, so debt to GDP ratio went up 75%, to an even less sustainable level. You can't cut your way to prosperity, when will these idiots learn?

 

[Jaskalas]

We won't really, unless Greece leaves the euro.

They don't really have the ability to deficit spend in euros because they don't issue them.

What's the point of having an election if they don't change policy? If they have to leave the Euro to enact it... then I assume that's what they are going to do.

How else would this election have consequences?

 

[fskimospy]

What's the point of having an election if they don't change policy? If they have to leave the Euro to enact it... then I assume that's what they are going to do.

How else would this election have consequences?

Beats me! I don't know much about Greek politics. One thought is that they might use the threat of leaving the euro to drive a harder bargain?

 

[WelshBloke]

What's the point of having an election if they don't change policy? If they have to leave the Euro to enact it... then I assume that's what they are going to do.

How else would this election have consequences?

It'll be interesting to see how far the rest of Europe goes to keep them in.

It'll be even more interesting if they leave, say 'fuck your debt' and end up in a better situation like Iceland. I guess thats the nightmare for the financial establishment. That other economies follow.

 

[Fern]

-snip-
You can't cut your way to prosperity, when will these idiots learn?

And if you're Greece you can't borrow your way into prosperity, or print enough money to get there either.

If Greece leaves and drops the Euro I predict a booming tourism market.

If I were them though, I'd think about enacting restrictions on foreigners buying up real estate.

Fern

 

[glenn1]

Getting off the Euro would be painful at first but probably in Greece's long term interests.

Greece fucked up initially by living beyond its means, but Germany is the real problem now. It is getting to the point where a good portion of the European periphery would be better off away from the Euro. Germany used it to fuck them over.

So when Greece does it you call it "fucking up" but when the U.S. does it you rename it "stimulus" and support it to the end.

 

[nickqt]

So when Greece does it you call it "fucking up" but when the U.S. does it you rename it "stimulus" and support it to the end.

The wealthy who own and operate Greece have corrupted the system so that they don't pay taxes. Greece also uses the Euro as its currency, which means that it can't just print or borrow to pay for what it needs. Unlike the US, UK, or China.

The US debt doesn't affect you in any way, and is a non-issue when there is a Republican president in the White House.

"Reagan proved deficits don't matter".
-Dick Cheney

The thing is, they don't. The US owes most of the debt to itself, i.e. to the citizens who buy treasuries. If the US was living beyond its means, no one would be buying treasuries.

The key is that they are safe. Unless politicians get in the way of the US paying its debt obligations, the US will pay its debt obligations.

I'm sure MMT has been brought up before, but if you want an economic model that nails the economy over and over and over again, you can start here.

http://johnfrmcleveland.hubpages.com/hub/The-US-National-Debt-explained-MMT-style

The US debt number is just an accounting number on a ledger. It means f-all to anyone on a daily basis. Of course, hyperinflation is just around the corner, just like it was in the 1980s. Just ask the Chicago-school faithful.

 

[fskimospy]

So when Greece does it you call it "fucking up" but when the U.S. does it you rename it "stimulus" and support it to the end.

Greece borrows in a currency they dont control.

You are seriously so goddamn stupid.

 

[Greenman]

What has austerity done for Greece?
We were told about how profligate the Greeks were before the crisis. Maybe so. But how has tightening of their belts to supposedly pay down debt worked out? Debt has held steady, but GDP collapsed 30%, so debt to GDP ratio went up 75%, to an even less sustainable level. You can't cut your way to prosperity, when will these idiots learn?

The issue with this line of thinking is that no one will lend them any more money, because they can't pay it back. Borrowing your way out of debt is a fine thing, as long as you control the currency and can devalue it to the point of being worthless.

 

[JEDI]

The US debt number is just an accounting number on a ledger. It means f-all to anyone on a daily basis. Of course, hyperinflation is just around the corner, just like it was in the 1980s. Just ask the Chicago-school faithful.

so why hasn't hyper-inflation hit the US already?
we printed $TRILLIONS$ via QE2.

why isn't a walmart loaf of bread costing $10 yet?

 

[nickqt]

so why hasn't hyper-inflation hit the US already?
we printed $TRILLIONS$ via QE2.

why isn't a walmart loaf of bread costing $10 yet?

Hyperinflation hasn't hit the US because the Chicago school of economics is terrible and should be ignored. That last bit was just a lil snark.

 

[alcoholbob]

What has austerity done for Greece?

Slow down the collapse of the Euro instead of accelerating it which is what they should be doing. But politicians like to take it slow and don't like taking sharp turns.

 

[Jhhnn]

Greece is just proof positive that modern bankers will lend you more money than you can possibly repay. It reveals an astounding corruption at the highest levels of finance- not just in Greece, but in the whole process of securitization.

Why would institutions like Goldman Sachs do that? Because it's not their money, because they take a piece off the top of whatever action they can generate, pass risk on to investors in deceptive ways. Knowing it's bunk, they can then take a position against it all in the derivatives market. Their Greek counterparts pocket as much of it as possible as it flows by, playing much the same game. When investors wise up, the Greeks get left twisting in the wind. Very little of the money is actually left in Greece at all. They've been looted.