• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Greece about to default

Page 6 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Who in their right mind runs a fiscal surplus during an equivalent of the Great Depression, after seeing how the last 5 years of austerity worked out for Greece? I guess our Republicans may be stupid enough to say they would while someone else is in the White House, but everyone knows they wouldn't if it was their butts on the line.
I mean these Eurocrats are so out of touch with reality, forget Greece, I think the whole Euro is going to disintegrate if it doesn't get some new management.
 
senseamp said:
I mean these Eurocrats are so out of touch with reality, forget Greece, I think the whole Euro is going to disintegrate if it doesn't get some new management.
Click to expand...

Starting to look that way. As an American I do not know that much about the EU but over the last few years I have started to understand all the bullshit that goes on in EU politics.
 
We have seen how weak the bonds of the EU are. Greece is about to leave over disagreements over the terms of already failed austerity that Europe wants to continue to impose on it. The whole thing is a farce. You can't pretend like you have a real union if you let this happen. They are neighbors, not a family.
 
senseamp said:
We have seen how weak the bonds of the EU are. Greece is about to leave over disagreements over the terms of already failed austerity that Europe wants to continue to impose on it. The whole thing is a farce. You can't pretend like you have a real union if you let this happen. They are neighbors, not a family.
Click to expand...

If your brother keeps asking to borrow money and never pays you back you don't keep letting him borrow money.
 
senseamp said:
Maybe not, but you don't foreclose on his house and leave him homeless, and then pretend you are actually a family.
Click to expand...

Evidently you're not from a European family.


And you're not actually foreclosing on his house, you're just not giving him the money that he needs to make the interest payment ^_^
 
senseamp said:
We have seen how weak the bonds of the EU are. Greece is about to leave over disagreements over the terms of already failed austerity that Europe wants to continue to impose on it. The whole thing is a farce. You can't pretend like you have a real union if you let this happen. They are neighbors, not a family.
Click to expand...

While austerity will not work for Greece (or any economy in a depression), Greece does have a legitimate structural problem with endemic tax fraud, nepotism, and overly-generous government jobs and pensions. If you're sitting in Slovakia right now, you've really got to be wondering why your money is going to some pensioner in Greece that lives a much better life than you do.

I think the EZ is doomed to fail, but they cannot just keep "bailing out" Greece as the other nations will learn that the EZ is not going to kick anyone out and all fiscal discipline will evaporate. Should've never separated fiscal and monetary policies.
 
This is a failure of big Government, and should be a warning to all that think that Government is the answer.

Along with Greece failing, there is Ireland, Spain, Portugal, etc., waiting in the wings.

Oh, we will "Govern" you. We will be EuroZone... didn't work so well.

We will plan it all out, and everyone succeeds... didn't work so well.

Thiefs, and bankers, and governments and ... really screwed over people is what we end up with.

-John
 
Puerto Rico, (PR) asked for Bankruptcy today.

How do you do that? How does a nation go bankrupt?

Government, duh.

-John
 
Is anyone surprised the EU is slowly unravelling? You just have a huge collection of different cultures, ideologies, history, economies, all forced into one square peg. Many of these countries don't even really like each other.

The repercussions of Greece leaving would be huge. Don't forget the UK is having a referendum on leaving the EU as well. Granted the UK don't use the Euro but that's a big blow if they go. Once they see Greece bailing out I imagine British voters would be less willing to stay.

The EU is broken because it got too big, too quick, and didn't take the time to stabilise itself.
 
StinkyPinky said:
Is anyone surprised the EU is slowly unravelling? You just have a huge collection of different cultures, ideologies, history, economies, all forced into one square peg. Many of these countries don't even really like each other.

The repercussions of Greece leaving would be huge. Don't forget the UK is having a referendum on leaving the EU as well. Granted the UK don't use the Euro but that's a big blow if they go. Once they see Greece bailing out I imagine British voters would be less willing to stay.

The EU is broken because it got too big, too quick, and didn't take the time to stabilise itself.
Click to expand...
The EU is also broken because it is economic union that is using defacto German currency.

They may have lost control over Europe at the end of WWII, but they have the reins again with the Euro currency.
 
StinkyPinky said:
The repercussions of Greece leaving would be huge. Don't forget the UK is having a referendum on leaving the EU as well. Granted the UK don't use the Euro but that's a big blow if they go. Once they see Greece bailing out I imagine British voters would be less willing to stay. .
Click to expand...

We might well leave, but I don't think that grexit will change attitudes here much.

Its more about the thousands of migrants piling up in Calais and the loss of Sovereignty to various EU institutions that affects attitudes here I think.

I don't think that us leaving would necessarily be that big a blow either way.
 
nickqt said:
The EU is also broken because it is economic union that is using defacto German currency.

They may have lost control over Europe at the end of WWII, but they have the reins again with the Euro currency.
Click to expand...

Well it was a good idea at the time. Way to stomp on the dream of a unified Europe there buzzkillington. Why don't you pay off Greece's debts yourself.
 
Last edited:
The economic models being practiced just aren't feasible. Shortcuts are taken (pyramid schemes) to loot today and pay tomorrow. Well tomorrow has dawned for Greece.

Economic looting has consequences.
Don't promise what you cannot pay.
 
BigDH01 said:
While austerity will not work for Greece (or any economy in a depression), Greece does have a legitimate structural problem with endemic tax fraud, nepotism, and overly-generous government jobs and pensions. If you're sitting in Slovakia right now, you've really got to be wondering why your money is going to some pensioner in Greece that lives a much better life than you do.

I think the EZ is doomed to fail, but they cannot just keep "bailing out" Greece as the other nations will learn that the EZ is not going to kick anyone out and all fiscal discipline will evaporate. Should've never separated fiscal and monetary policies.
Click to expand...

Let's put some things into context.
Greece ran a budget surplus last year of $2B, or 1% of GDP. In the middle of the equivalent of a Great Depression, with 25%+ unemployment, and 50% youth unemployment. US could barely manage to balance the budget during the boom years of the Clinton administration. The issue is that Greece's debt load from the past is unsustainable, not that its current fiscal policy is too loose. Greece needs its past debts restructured and written off, and it needs fiscal loosening, not tightening to boost their economy. The fiscal tightening that their previous bailout terms imposed put the economy into a depression, and undid any benefit of reduced spending. Because the GDP shrunk, the debt load became less sustainable, not more.
 
senseamp said:
Let's put some things into context.
Greece ran a budget surplus last year of $2B, or 1% of GDP. In the middle of the equivalent of a Great Depression, with 25%+ unemployment, and 50% youth unemployment. US could barely manage to balance the budget during the boom years of the Clinton administration. The issue is that Greece's debt load from the past is unsustainable, not that its current fiscal policy is too loose. Greece needs its past debts restructured and written off, and it needs fiscal loosening, not tightening to boost their economy. The fiscal tightening that their previous bailout terms imposed put the economy into a depression, and undid any benefit of reduced spending. Because the GDP shrunk, the debt load became less sustainable, not more.
Click to expand...

The surplus you are mentioning came a from a combination of a reduction of spending, increase tax enforcement/collection and bond sales on Greece's debt via Greek debt bonds which were done on their behalf. However your suggestions would essentially erode that surplus which they were able to obtain via the aforementioned austerity based policies and would set Greece on the same path of fiscal endangerment that created this mess in the first place. Which is fine and dandy if Greece was on its own because they would only screw themselves over in the end.

However they are not and they are part of the EU. Which means that this is not only Greece's problem but a huge problem for the other EU member states. Nevermind that Greece still wants to be part of the club which means it has to adhere to the rules set in place to keep the EU economically solvent as a union of independent European states linked via a common currency and a set of common economic policies to keep that currency afloat.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top