I love sports threads on ATOT..
this one actually has some good observations, but some awful ones as well..
The guy who said that Shaq isn't athletic should be banned from ever posting in a thread about anything other than typing..the best thing Shaq has going for him is his athleticism...this guy is freaking huge - way bigger than any of these other guys we are talking about, but is arguably the least "big-man" looking guy in the bunch when running up and down the court. I agree that he doesn't have the best post-up moves, but when you are able to score right at the basket why would you want to be shooting 10-15 foot shots? I agree that he will have to get in better shape, and not use the regular season to get in shape for the playoffs, from now on in his career - as you get older you have to put in more time in the off-season!
The Bill Russell group has championships on their side, but can you say then that the other guys on those teams are among the best players ever at their positions as well? Is Ron Harper one of the NBA greats because he has 5 rings?
Russell was a tremendous shot-blocker and a very good rebounder, but his offensive game wasn't any more advanced that Shaq's, and he had GREAT, GREAT talent all around him. While he is likely one of the 50 best players of all-time, I think he gets a bit overrated with all those rings.
Kareem is sort of the opposite of Russell - dominating offensive game, only average defensive ability, and his rebounding greatly declined in the second half of his career. Looking at the number of rings, again, can be a bit mis-leading as he had quite a bit of help around him most of the time. I will say that in his first few years in Milwaukee he was as good as anyone has ever been, and the skyhook is still the most unstoppable shot in the history of the NBA - the fact that more big men don't use it is apalling to me!
Bill Walton, had he not been plagued with some serious leg injuries, may have been the best all-around center of all time - clearly the best passer among this group, and his skills were right up there as well. We'll never know how good he could have been.
Wilt is simply head & shoulders above this group statistically speaking, and with the exception of a few seasons in LA, never had the kind of talent around him that Russell had. His rebounding and scoring numbers look like video game statistics. Averaging 50pts a game? I will add that Wilt's size/strength advantage over the rest of the league is similar to what Shaq has now - there simply aren't other players, or weren't back then, who could physically contend with Wilt. The other amazing thing about Wilt was the season where he said he was going to lead the league in assists just to show everyone what a good passer he was, but no one ever talked about it...and he went out and did it!
Hakeem was very talented, but I don't think he was quite at the level these guys were/are. I would put him at the top of the next bunch of centers, with D.Robinson, Ewing, Mikan, Gilmore, M.Malone and a few others.
Really, it depends on how you define greatness then, but I look at the stats first since the rings are a team effort - and when you do that there is no choice but Wilt.
I think Derek Jeter is sort of the modern Bill Russell in terms of how he is viewed compared to his peers. A-Rod is head and shoulders above Jeter offensively, and I think you would be hard pressed to find much of a difference between them on D - yet Jeter is often put in the same group with A-rod because he has 3 championships already (or is it 4, I don't keep track of Yankee titles!). I don't mean that as a knock on Jeter, cause he is a heck of a player, but he isn't on A-Rod's level.
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