Great Dennis Miller Rant about McVeigh

XMan

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
12,513
49
91
Can you believe that there are actually people out there who want to portray him as a victim? It's about time we put things right for the real victims of crime.

Now, I don't want to get off on a rant here, but given our scant attention to victims' rights, sometimes they're better off if the criminal is never caught in the first place. At least that way they only get fscked around once.

Maybe the problem is, we're a culture already saturated with victimization. We're all so loud, shrill, and adept at playing the victim in inconsequential situations that an actual bonafide victim stands about as much a chance of being noticed as an unemployed guy with a laptop and a goatee at a Starbucks.

The sheer volume of cases presently deluging the courts pretty much guarantees that no matter how heinous the crime, its victims are faceless entities, mere numbers on a court docket who are accorded all the dignity of a ring girl at a cockfight.

The entire legal system is bent on ensuring the rights of the accused. Victims couldn't wield any less power if they were the California electrical grid.

The disparity between the victim's and the criminal's rights is most obvious when it comes to representation. Criminals who can't afford a lawyer get one appointed to them by the court, while victims who cant afford one are relegated to hiring the cycloptic paralegal who advertises during "Mama's Family."

In order to avoid creating vigilantes, society takes the right of retribution for a crime away from the victim and makes it a matter for "the people." Of course, in America this means the solemn burden of justice is in the hands of the same "people" who created the Chia Pet, order the "Backyard Wrestling" tapes, and have demanded 7 distinct flavors of Corn-Nuts.

Come on, there's gotta be a way to protect the rights of victims as well as the accused. For example, victims should have a right to know when the animal who attacked them is going to get out of jail. They shouldn't have to read about it in the papers, or find out their assailant took tax-payer-financed computer courses in prison and has just been hired as their boss.

And how about white collar criminals who bilk people out of their life savings and are then given a slap on the wrist-sentenced to house arrest? The solution is simple: Sentence them to house arrest in their victim's house. Trust me, they'll be beggin' for prison.

As for paying restitution... Well, many criminals don't have any money. What they do have is unlimited time and limited space. I think they should have to spend their entire sentence pedaling a stationary bike in their cell that generates electricity and sends it to the homes of their victims. Take a big chunk out of those monthly utility bills.

And I can't believe that there is any argument against rules requiring convicted child molesters to announce their presence in neighborhoods. Hey, fsck that. I think they should have to wear bells on their shoes and a bright yellow windbreaker that says, "I am a convicted child molester" on the back. But I do have a solution that should make everybody happy: Let's force paroled child molesters to live in the same neighborhoods where all the ACLU attorneys live.

In the case of physical assault, the victim should have the right to choose his assailant's cellmate. If done properly, this one easy step could serve the dual purpose of making the victim feel empowered, and the criminal feel victimized. Or, at the very least, sore.

In our increasingly vengeful society, guaranteeing crime victims their rights is not just desirable. It's essential. It channels that need for vengeance away from chaos and into socially acceptable expression. But if we continue to push victims around, they may one day feel as if they have no choice but to take back their rights in the only way they've seen work: by becoming defendants themselves.

Yes, we are all innocent until proven guilty, but when a self-confessed monster like Timothy McVeigh can stall his execution because of a few misplaced boxes of documents that only show how much more guilty he is, we need to hustle his ass up onto that gurney faster than the time it will take for his scumbag lawyers to sign their upcoming book deal.

I endorse the execution of McVeigh. But every now and then I feel a pang of guilt, thinking, "Could he suffer more?" In my fantasy, we get a Port-A-John that's brimming with sh!t, lock him in it, and put the whole thing on a pickup truck driving slowly cross-country on badly paved roads.

Some anti-death penalty advocates say that McVeigh's execution won't bring closure to the survivors of the bombing. Maybe not, but it will bring closure to McVeigh's eyes, and frankly, that's all I need right now.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

 

GasX

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
29,033
6
81
Good stuff.

"accorded all the dignity of a ring girl at a cockfight" - lol
 

Looney

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
21,938
5
0


<< The entire legal system is bent on ensuring the rights of the accused. Victims couldn't wield any less power if they were the California electrical grid. >>



Of course the legal system is bent on ensuring the rights of the accused... because until you are proven guilty, you ARE innocent. What kind of legal system does he want? Like China? That as soon as you're arrested, you're guilty, and the legal system is just a formal process that everybody already knows the outcome of?

 

chainbolt

Golden Member
Nov 28, 2000
1,101
0
0
The guy is just playing around with words without touching the real issues. Very cute.
How could it happen that a human being (and decorated veteran) turned into such a monster? What is the appropriate punishment?

So, he is happy that he closed his eyes, fine. Not a big deal. It doesn't take a great (or brave) man to close his eyes. It may have done justice (I doubt), but it doesn't solve anything.
 

Pretender

Banned
Mar 14, 2000
7,192
0
0


<< The guy is just playing around with words without touching the real issues. Very cute.
How could it happen that a human being (and decorated veteran) turned into such a monster? What is the appropriate punishment?
>>

Comedians just play with words, they don't touch on real issues. I feel sorry for anyone who finds a comedian's word intelligent or correct.
 

iamwiz82

Lifer
Jan 10, 2001
30,772
13
81


<< Let's force paroled child molesters to live in the same neighborhoods where all the ACLU attorneys live. >>



Hell yeah!!
 

skywhr

Diamond Member
Oct 30, 2000
3,866
1
0
Some anti-death penalty advocates say that McVeigh's execution won't bring closure to the survivors of the bombing. Maybe not, but it will bring closure to McVeigh's eyes, and frankly, that's all I need right now.

 

KDOG

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,525
14
81
Pretender:Its not very intelligent, but he does make a point - too much emphosis on criminals rights and noone seems to give a flying f**k about the victims or their families...

I think McVeigh got off too easy. He should have died by electricution or firing squad. Or tie him down, bleed him a little, and let a few dozen hungry rats out...
 

TheKidd

Senior member
Aug 21, 2000
582
0
0


<< Comedians just play with words, they don't touch on real issues. I feel sorry for anyone who finds a comedian's word intelligent or correct. >>



Pretender, based on the quality of YOUR posts, I don't think that you have anything to say that is intelligent or correct. Though I do agree that the Dennis Miller rant was stupid.
 

Descartes

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
13,968
2
0


<< Comedians just play with words, they don't touch on real issues. I feel sorry for anyone who finds a comedian's word intelligent or correct. >>



George Carlin is obviously a comedian, but much of what he says is original and intelligent (in a George Carlin way).
 

brennan

Senior member
Oct 11, 1999
330
0
0
Moralpanic pretty much nailed it - of COURSE there's emphasis on the rights of the accused. They're still considered innocent. Given the track record of the courts and police, I have NO desire to make it easier for them to lock people up.

Let's put it this way: if I'm innocent, victims have no rights in regard to me. And until I'm convicted, I'm innocent.

I'd love to hear actual legislative proposals from the outraged. What, concretely speaking, would they actually change?

-brennan
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
47
91
NOW you know why Dennis Miller lives in my sig. B/C he is the friggin' man :D
 

warcleric

Banned
May 31, 2000
2,384
0
0
The point is, that after a criminal is convicted....that is when the victims rights should start. But in this society full of liberal &quot;don't hurt their self-esteem&quot; nutcases, the victims dont get a second thought. During a criminal trial the victim has no need for an attorney, the prosecutor for the state takes care of all that is necessary, and most prosecutors are better lawyers than most public defenders. In the end I still think that in order for capital punishment to be a real deterrant to criminals, it needs to be carried out in a public forum in the most painful way possible. This does not lessen our civility it is only an extreme solution to an extreme problem. It will take another 50 years of real parenting to bring about a society that has instilled right and wrong into its citizens through childhood. Instead we are stuck with a bunch of sniveling idiots screaming about how its wrong to discipline your own children, again, because you might hurt their self-esteem. Personally, I would rather have an under confident child than a mass murdering one. I know I jumped around to alot of different issues, but these problem stem from so much that is wrong with society today, and I dont have the time to spend on each individual one.
 

brennan

Senior member
Oct 11, 1999
330
0
0
Warcleric:

&quot;But in this society full of liberal 'don't hurt their self-esteem' nutcases, the victims dont get a second thought.&quot;

Can you cite instances where &quot;liberal nutcases&quot; took actions specifically to avoid &quot;hurting the self-esteem&quot; of a person convicted of a violent crime? Can you show instances where liberals were concerned with the well-being of a convicted violent criminal to the detriment of the victims of that crime?

It seems like you're confusing &quot;concerned with the rights of the accused&quot; &quot; with &quot;looking after the well-being of criminals.&quot; No liberals I know were concerned with McVeigh's self-esteem, but rather the fundamental fairness and propriety of criminal trials in general, and FBI prosecutions in particular. We all know he did it; he admitted as much. But is there a single time where the FBI doesn't fsck up a case? Chances are if the FBI withholds documents in the future, the guy won't have confessed in the meantime, and then there may be genuine questions as to whether the accused is getting a fair trial. Can you *possibly* not see this?

The whole &quot;nutcase liberals want to set the criminals free&quot; trip is pure crap. It's so poor an argument as to make me embarrassed for someone who makes it.

EDIT: Another thing: &quot;discipline your children&quot;? Can you provide evidence that &quot;liberal&quot; parents &quot;overly concerned with self-esteem&quot; produce more violent children? Were McVeigh's parents like this? Do you have proof? Or is this simply an impression you have?

I would like, just once, for the &quot;permissive liberals are destroying America&quot; crew to provide some proof of their assertions. As far as I can see, Europe is more liberal than America, and way less violent.

-brennan
 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,475
1
0
<<The guy is just playing around with words without touching the real issues. Very cute.
How could it happen that a human being (and decorated veteran) turned into such a monster? What is the appropriate punishment?>>

This comment is very incensing to me. It doesn't matter why he became the monster he was, what matters is that he was a mass murdering monster that killed 168 innocent men, women and children. He was remorseless and admitted the crime completely. Because of his crime he deserved to die, taking another person's life is justifcation enough to forfiet your own, taking 168 deserves slow torture. This wasn't a war, this wasn't a statement, this was mass murder of a bunch of innocent people that never had ANY impact of McVeigh's life. He attempted to make a statement through the blood of others.
 

brennan

Senior member
Oct 11, 1999
330
0
0
&quot;...in order for capital punishment to be a real deterrant to criminals, it needs to be carried out in a public forum in the most painful way possible.&quot;

&quot;...taking another person's life is justifcation enough to forfiet your own, taking 168 [lives] deserves slow torture.&quot;

Yeah, the best way to get a less violent society is to bring back medieval methods of punishment. That makes a ton of sense.

I'm originally from Illinois. The pro-death penalty Republican governor there suspended executions because half (!) of the people convicted of capital crimes in Illinois in the past 15 years or so were completely exonerated. Were it not for permissive, society-destroying, bleeding-heart liberals, these people would be dead now. If you guys had your way, they might have been tortured first.

It's easy to point at McVeigh and demand the harshest of sentences. But in the overwhelming majority of cases, you don't have a confession, and things aren't nearly so cut-and-dried. If you guys don't mind that some of the people you've drawn and quartered in public might be innocent, hey, fine for you. I happen to mind.

-brennan
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,501
20,101
146


<<

<< The entire legal system is bent on ensuring the rights of the accused. Victims couldn't wield any less power if they were the California electrical grid. >>



Of course the legal system is bent on ensuring the rights of the accused... because until you are proven guilty, you ARE innocent. What kind of legal system does he want? Like China? That as soon as you're arrested, you're guilty, and the legal system is just a formal process that everybody already knows the outcome of?
>>



BINGO!!

As much as I despise criminals and crime, I can NEVER let myself sink so low as to take away ANY of the Constitutional rights of the ACCUSED.

BUT, once they're proven guilty... That's a different story.
 

rmeijer

Member
Oct 3, 2000
133
0
0
&quot;This wasn't a war&quot;...

I believe that McVeigh thought it was a war - a war against the oppressive Federal government.

What makes a &quot;monster&quot;? Are the pilots of the &quot;Enola Gay&quot; monsters for killing so many innoncents? What about the Fed agents at Waco? The Palestinians? The Israelis? Hussein? Clinton?

Who decides when it is okay to kill people (&quot;hey, it was a war!&quot;)?
 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,475
1
0
<<Yeah, the best way to get a less violent society is to bring back medieval methods of punishment. That makes a ton of sense.

I'm originally from Illinois. The pro-death penalty Republican governor there suspended executions because half (!) of the people convicted of capital crimes in Illinois in the past 15 years or so were completely exonerated. Were it not for permissive, society-destroying, bleeding-heart liberals, these people would be dead now. If you guys had your way, they might have been tortured first.

It's easy to point at McVeigh and demand the harshest of sentences. But in the overwhelming majority of cases, you don't have a confession, and things aren't nearly so cut-and-dried. If you guys don't mind that some of the people you've drawn and quartered in public might be innocent, hey, fine for you. I happen to mind.>>

Ya know what I agree about protecting rights and I abhore the idea of execution of an innocent person. But my rant is simply about McViegh, he admitted his crime. He has no rights after admission of the crime. Our system is designed to protect the innocent, once it's determined without a doubt that you aren't innocent you shouldn't have such protections. I agree with most of what has been said about the presumption of innocence and the danger of conviction of innocent people. But McVeigh does not qualify for those protections after admission of the crime.

McVeigh was a monster, and should have suffered more for his crime. 168 people died, 1000's more were directly effected by the loss of loved ones. Children will grow up without parents, parents lost children. There is no doubt about his guilt. You want to argue this in a general sense about capital punishment, I'm argueing about the right and just death of a mass murderering terrorist.
 

Pretender

Banned
Mar 14, 2000
7,192
0
0


<<

<< Comedians just play with words, they don't touch on real issues. I feel sorry for anyone who finds a comedian's word intelligent or correct. >>



Pretender, based on the quality of YOUR posts, I don't think that you have anything to say that is intelligent or correct. Though I do agree that the Dennis Miller rant was stupid.
>>

Ooh, coming from a member. Yes, I'm sure you are well versed in the quality of my posts. Thank you for showing me what the quality of a &quot;good&quot; post should be by example.
 

Pretender

Banned
Mar 14, 2000
7,192
0
0


<<

<< Comedians just play with words, they don't touch on real issues. I feel sorry for anyone who finds a comedian's word intelligent or correct. >>



George Carlin is obviously a comedian, but much of what he says is original and intelligent (in a George Carlin way).
>>

I agree that he does often bring up very good points, but at times he does simply play with words just to make something funny.