Grasping at Straws

[DealMonkey]

I thought we were talking WMDs? Or did Cad's patented "distract and divert" strategy work on you all?

 

[BOBDN]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I thought we were talking WMDs? Or did Cad's patented "distract and divert" strategy work on you all?

Or Ultra Quiet's personal attacks and call to military praise.

 

[BOBDN]

So read the article and answer me one question CkG, Ultra Quiet, xxxxxJohn Galtxxxxx or any of the other blind patriots here.

WHERE'S THE WMD?

 

[BOBDN]

Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet

Well, we've become the Patriotism and Duty forum.

No we haven't. This has become the red-faced ranting retard forum co-chaired by you and phillytimmy. You wouldn't know the first thing about patriotism and duty. Ranting on a message board is neither.

All praise to the military

Stick it.

No one should be permitted to live in our nation, no less be our leader, without serving in one of our fine military institutions.

I'm against mandatory service but in your case I'll make an exception. When are you leaving?

Oh, oops, that would eliminate Bush

No it wouldn't.

Careful UQ. You'll be riding the pines! (again)

Just answer the question.


WHERE'S THE WMD? \

*EDIT*

Going AWOL while dodging the draft thanks to daddy's connections does NOT constitute military service.

That would eliminate Bush.

 

[UltraQuiet]

WHERE'S THE WMD?

I don't know.

 

[BOBDN]

Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet

WHERE'S THE WMD?

I don't know.

No one does. That's because it doesn't exist.

How do you defend Bush and Co. when they went to war based on falsehoods? Falsehoods they were well aware of?

 

[UltraQuiet]

Originally posted by: BOBDN

Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet

WHERE'S THE WMD?

I don't know.

No one does. That's because it doesn't exist.

How do you defend Bush and Co. when they went to war based on falsehoods? Falsehoods they were well aware of?

When you prove they were falsehoods, I'll quit defending it. Mistakes,obviously, but you'll have to prove anything else. Good luck.

Read this

CNN

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: BOBDN

Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet

WHERE'S THE WMD?

I don't know.

No one does. That's because it doesn't exist.

How do you defend Bush and Co. when they went to war based on falsehoods? Falsehoods they were well aware of?

Falsehoods(WMDs) that, if provent to be such, were supported by the UN and pretty much everyone except Saddam. Yeah, I guess it is "cowboy" Bush's fault.

Again - it was Saddam's responsibility to show he has gotten rid of Weapons and Programs(read the UN resolutions) - he didn't do so and was found to be out of compliance. Bush finally did something about it, something that both his father and Clinton could and should have done years ago.

Koni - YHPM

CkG

 

[DealMonkey]

Notice how the administration has shifted semantics in recent days. No longer are they going to find "WMDs" in Iraq, but they were going to find "WMD programs." It's a subtle shift, but one well-worth examining. In effect, they're lowering the expectation that actual WMDs will be found and focusing on the programs that may or may not exist to manufacture them. It's an important distinction.

But really, maybe all we need to do is ask the Presidential Prayer Team to deliver the WMDs to us. They're certainly not too busy praying for other things. Like promoting faith-based programs in America (as long as their not Muslim programs). Or for the troops in far-off lands to shoot straight and kill their enemies. (Kill, kill, kill!) Or for the return of the Bible verses that had been removed from the Grand Canyon National Park (God made this great canyon, you know). You know, important stuff like that.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Notice how the administration has shifted semantics in recent days. No longer are they going to find "WMDs" in Iraq, but they were going to find "WMD programs." It's a subtle shift, but one well-worth examining. In effect, they're lowering the expectation that actual WMDs will be found and focusing on the programs that may or may not exist to manufacture them. It's an important distinction.

But really, maybe all we need to do is ask the Presidential Prayer Team to deliver the WMDs to us. They're certainly not too busy praying for other things. Like promoting faith-based programs in America (as long as their not Muslim programs). Or for the troops in far-off lands to shoot straight and kill their enemies. (Kill, kill, kill!) Or for the return of the Bible verses that had been removed from the Grand Canyon National Park (God made this great canyon, you know). You know, important stuff like that.

DM, while the "shift" may seem like a "trick" to you, I suggest you go back and read what Bush has said. He has stated all along that there are "programs" so that isn't a NEW thing. Yes, there might not be actual WMDs to find now but Saddam by all accounts did have them and didn't produce evidence of their destruction. THAT is why we had to act. Now we need to find out what how everyone(UN & etc) came to the conclusion that they possesed them and why we wanted them to show us proof. The key to that answer is in the weapons programs and documentation there in. If Saddam didn't have actual WMDs then why would our intel agencies tell us for 12+ years that he did? This wasn't just something G.W. conjured up It will be very interesting to hear the full report about what they are finding in Iraq

N/C on the rest of your post.

CkG

 

[BOBDN]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Notice how the administration has shifted semantics in recent days. No longer are they going to find "WMDs" in Iraq, but they were going to find "WMD programs." It's a subtle shift, but one well-worth examining. In effect, they're lowering the expectation that actual WMDs will be found and focusing on the programs that may or may not exist to manufacture them. It's an important distinction.

But really, maybe all we need to do is ask the Presidential Prayer Team to deliver the WMDs to us. They're certainly not too busy praying for other things. Like promoting faith-based programs in America (as long as their not Muslim programs). Or for the troops in far-off lands to shoot straight and kill their enemies. (Kill, kill, kill!) Or for the return of the Bible verses that had been removed from the Grand Canyon National Park (God made this great canyon, you know). You know, important stuff like that.

DM, while the "shift" may seem like a "trick" to you, I suggest you go back and read what Bush has said. He has stated all along that there are "programs" so that isn't a NEW thing. Yes, there might not be actual WMDs to find now but Saddam by all accounts did have them and didn't produce evidence of their destruction. THAT is why we had to act. Now we need to find out what how everyone(UN & etc) came to the conclusion that they possesed them and why we wanted them to show us proof. The key to that answer is in the weapons programs and documentation there in. If Saddam didn't have actual WMDs then why would our intel agencies tell us for 12+ years that he did? This wasn't just something G.W. conjured up It will be very interesting to hear the full report about what they are finding in Iraq

N/C on the rest of your post.

CkG

Following your suggestion I went back and read what Bush said. It's fairly unequivocal. But you just go on and keep defending it.

"Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons."
United Nations Address
September 12, 2002
"Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the facilities used to make more of those weapons."
"We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have."
Radio Address
October 5, 2002
"The Iraqi regime . . . possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons."
"We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas."
"We've also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We're concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVS for missions targeting the United States."
"The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program. Saddam Hussein has held numerous meetings with Iraqi nuclear scientists, a group he calls his "nuclear mujahideen" - his nuclear holy warriors. Satellite photographs reveal that Iraq is rebuilding facilities at sites that have been part of its nuclear program in the past. Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons."
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
October 7, 2002
"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent."
State of the Union Address
January 28, 2003
"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."
Address to the Nation
March 17, 2003

 

[glenn1]

Considering that 69% of Democrats think that Bush is going to get re-elected, i'd say even the diehards out there don't think the constant harping on this subject is going to change the election results. So keep on plugging away with the "Bush lied" chant, the rest of America made up their minds on the subject and stopped listening to you a long time ago. I guess you all didn't learn from the idiot Republicans using the exact same tactic (droning on endlessly about "Clinton lied" for months and years on end) and having no results to show for it. But go ahead and keep up the rant if it makes you feel better.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: BOBDN

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Notice how the administration has shifted semantics in recent days. No longer are they going to find "WMDs" in Iraq, but they were going to find "WMD programs." It's a subtle shift, but one well-worth examining. In effect, they're lowering the expectation that actual WMDs will be found and focusing on the programs that may or may not exist to manufacture them. It's an important distinction.

But really, maybe all we need to do is ask the Presidential Prayer Team to deliver the WMDs to us. They're certainly not too busy praying for other things. Like promoting faith-based programs in America (as long as their not Muslim programs). Or for the troops in far-off lands to shoot straight and kill their enemies. (Kill, kill, kill!) Or for the return of the Bible verses that had been removed from the Grand Canyon National Park (God made this great canyon, you know). You know, important stuff like that.

DM, while the "shift" may seem like a "trick" to you, I suggest you go back and read what Bush has said. He has stated all along that there are "programs" so that isn't a NEW thing. Yes, there might not be actual WMDs to find now but Saddam by all accounts did have them and didn't produce evidence of their destruction. THAT is why we had to act. Now we need to find out what how everyone(UN & etc) came to the conclusion that they possesed them and why we wanted them to show us proof. The key to that answer is in the weapons programs and documentation there in. If Saddam didn't have actual WMDs then why would our intel agencies tell us for 12+ years that he did? This wasn't just something G.W. conjured up It will be very interesting to hear the full report about what they are finding in Iraq

N/C on the rest of your post.

CkG

Following your suggestion I went back and read what Bush said. It's fairly unequivocal. But you just go on and keep defending it.

"Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons."
United Nations Address
September 12, 2002
"Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the facilities used to make more of those weapons."
"We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have."
Radio Address
October 5, 2002
"The Iraqi regime . . . possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons."
"We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas."
"We've also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We're concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVS for missions targeting the United States."
"The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program. Saddam Hussein has held numerous meetings with Iraqi nuclear scientists, a group he calls his "nuclear mujahideen" - his nuclear holy warriors. Satellite photographs reveal that Iraq is rebuilding facilities at sites that have been part of its nuclear program in the past. Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons."
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
October 7, 2002
"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent."
State of the Union Address
January 28, 2003
"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."
Address to the Nation
March 17, 2003

Now read the rest NOT just the highlighted parts and your small snips. Do you see the word programs in there? Hmmmm.....

I never said he didn't say that Iraq had WMDs I said that when speaking about Iraq he most certainly did point out their programs too

CkG

 

[LunarRay]

Even if WMD are found along with WMD programs etc. it still does not support the invasion argument for the purpose of defending the US. It seems to me a resolution that enabled the Weapons Finding Teams (Blix et. al.) to be supported by armed multinational fact finders (Arabs and Westerners) would have uncovered the same stuff as has be found thus far.. Remember 1441 maintained the sovereignty of Iraq.. while it incorporated all the earlier Iraqi Resolutions..
If Bush says we invaded Iraq for the purpose of removing SH and changing the government to a democratic type affair whilst freeing the oppressed Iraqi etc... it would still not pass muster with the UN... and thus not legal.. we needed UN authority to go beyond "defense"...

The rule of law is all we have between the powerfull and the weak.. even when we all agree the Iraqi situation was awful... We above every one else must stand for the rule of law.

 

[Corn]

Hey BOBDN, where is Saddam?

 

[Gaard]

Just a quick FYI. June 10 press briefing at the White House
Q One question on the weapons of mass destruction issue. The President yesterday said three times in a row "weapons programs," rather than "weapons." Did the President intend to shift the focus here or establish a new position to in any way suggest a change in what he alleged before --

MR. FLEISCHER: No, as you know from listening to the President on this issue repeatedly, when the President talked about weapons programs, he includes weapons of mass destruction in that.

Q So he means by weapons, weapons programs, he means weapons, themselves?

MR. FLEISCHER: That's correct.

Q I mean, but he used "weapons programs" three times in a row. What should we make of that?

MR. FLEISCHER: You know how the President has addressed this issue repeatedly over time. I'm telling you I don't think you should make anything of it, because I know what the President meant. When he said "weapons programs," he includes weapons of mass destruction, as you heard him say on numerous occasions.

Q So he uses them interchangeably?

MR. FLEISCHER: That's correct. He did yesterday.


...so everybody, please remember this just in case they settle for discovering a WMD program and claim that's what they were talking about from the beginning.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Corn
Hey BOBDN, where is Saddam?

Where are all the Saddam look a likes? Maybe there ain't a real Saddam... Just a few look like Saddams and they are in Iran..

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Gaard
Just a quick FYI. June 10 press briefing at the White House
Q One question on the weapons of mass destruction issue. The President yesterday said three times in a row "weapons programs," rather than "weapons." Did the President intend to shift the focus here or establish a new position to in any way suggest a change in what he alleged before --

MR. FLEISCHER: No, as you know from listening to the President on this issue repeatedly, when the President talked about weapons programs, he includes weapons of mass destruction in that.

Q So he means by weapons, weapons programs, he means weapons, themselves?

MR. FLEISCHER: That's correct.

Q I mean, but he used "weapons programs" three times in a row. What should we make of that?

MR. FLEISCHER: You know how the President has addressed this issue repeatedly over time. I'm telling you I don't think you should make anything of it, because I know what the President meant. When he said "weapons programs," he includes weapons of mass destruction, as you heard him say on numerous occasions.

Q So he uses them interchangeably?

MR. FLEISCHER: That's correct. He did yesterday.


...so everybody, please remember this just in case they settle for discovering a WMD program and claim that's what they were talking about from the beginning.

Wow that's interesting that you post that, because CkG almost had me convinced that I was just fooling myself by focusing on the words. Those endless words coming out of our great leader's mouth. Cad was over there in the corner waving his fingers and intoning in a hypnotic way, "Don't pay attention to the words... It's not what you think..."

Turns, out, in Bush's mind, "Weapons of Mass Destruction" and "Weapon Programs" themselves are the same thing. Interchangable. Never mind that the former implies chem/bio/nukes all charged up and ready to drop on some unsuspecting U.S. soldiers crossing the border from Kuwait, while the latter implies a facility somewhere that can be started up and maybe weeks or months (or years?) later generate some WMDs. How about that?