Grad school?

[presidentender]

Title says it all. I'm set to graduate in May, and my department is looking for Masters' students.

Now, I already have a job developing software, and they were under the impression when they hired me that I'd be done in May. I haven't spoken to them about going to grad school (the thought hadn't crossed my mind until one of the faculty mentioned it today). Will grad school improve my earnings potential more than working in the real world for the same period of time? What if I go for a PhD?

 

[esun]

Masters can give a nice bump of ~$10k per year, but if you work in industry for awhile your company may pay you to get one while working full time, giving you the benefits of getting paychecks now and making them bigger later. Don't get a Ph.D. unless you want to do research or teach.

 

[Drakkon]

Master's degree seems to get you a jump higher on the stack than experience when it comes to finding a job. But if you can't hack it at the job it will become apparent really fast and fellow employees will make it obvious. Ph.D. can also jump you into directorship roles later in life.

 

[SJP0tato]

Statistically speaking, earning a master's degree pays itself off after a few years, meaning the cost of the degree is offset and eventually overcome by the increase in pay because of it.

A doctorate usually means you're working doing something you're VERY interested in, vs just obtaining it for more pay. In other words there's no guarantee of return on your investment other than the quality of work you may do (depending on your ability to land a job in your field of course).

Of course there's always exceptions, but on a whole this is what I have heard and seen in school and in the workplace.

My $0.02 would be: pick which sounds more appealing to you, as they're very different paths/goals. If you chose the master's route many IT workplaces reimburse tuition so it may be possible to attend classes on their dime.

Good luck!

 

[degibson]

Most students don't pay for graduate degrees, so if you don't mind not making big bucks for 18 months, get your masters. Along the way, you'll figure out if you want to get your PhD. Don't limit yourself to one department, however... that is the path to the darkside.

 

[EvilManagedCare]

Originally posted by: esun
Masters can give a nice bump of ~$10k per year, but if you work in industry for awhile your company may pay you to get one while working full time, giving you the benefits of getting paychecks now and making them bigger later. Don't get a Ph.D. unless you want to do research or teach.

Is there a difference if one gets a Master's in CS with no Bachelor's in CS? Coming from an advanced degree in a non-CS field, it's possible for me to only get the Master's since many schools won't confer a second bachelor's to post-graduates.

 

[SoundTheSurrender]

Is there a big advantage of getting a Masters in CS when you got a Bach in CS already? Wouldn't it be better to get a Masters in Business Administration or something?

 

[monitornet]

Last year I worked in a building on my college campus that is known for its research in IT. I had exposure to some research projects, conferences, and programs regarding cyberinfrastructure, which involves lots of programming.

The impression I got was that grad school is really for research, using programming to help develop a new project, or to use for biomedicine, etc. And PhD's are really only if you want to pursue a career in research and ascend to a managment position in research someday.

 

[presidentender]

Verdict: no grad school for Presidentender. I talked to the company president (bachelor's in CS) and another of the co-owners (master's in CS, because it made it easier to get his green card) and both of them said that they'd be more likely, all other things being equal, to hire someone with a bachelor's and two years of experience than a master's. I expected the master's degree holder to say go for it, while the bachelor's degree holder would say don't bother. Since they agree, and everyone who tells me to get the degree is directly involved with the university....

 

[evident]

if work pays for it. do it!

 

[dinkumthinkum]

Masters may increase your earning potential. PhD will almost never make up the lost opportunity cost if all you care about is money (unless you do something like Econ). You do that because of the career choice: research or teach, not for the money.

There's nothing stopping you from coming back to school a few years from now. Make sure to keep in touch with professors you like, for recommendations. That's what I did.

 

[txrandom]

Originally posted by: SoundTheSurrender
Is there a big advantage of getting a Masters in CS when you got a Bach in CS already? Wouldn't it be better to get a Masters in Business Administration or something?

Someone answer this please.

 

[degibson]

Originally posted by: txrandom

Originally posted by: SoundTheSurrender
Is there a big advantage of getting a Masters in CS when you got a Bach in CS already? Wouldn't it be better to get a Masters in Business Administration or something?

Someone answer this please.

Depends on the field of CS in which you get your Masters. In Architecture, for instance, Master's is the sweet spot for long-run cash. I don't know about other specialties.

 

[imported_Dhaval00]

Originally posted by: txrandom

Originally posted by: SoundTheSurrender
Is there a big advantage of getting a Masters in CS when you got a Bach in CS already? Wouldn't it be better to get a Masters in Business Administration or something?

Someone answer this please.

If you tend to be a tech-savvy individual, who can teach him or herself newer technologies, go for an MBA. Most CS grad programs I know of teach you more theory and concentrate on research - which is all good if you want to pursue a teaching career or get a job in M$'s or Google's R&D department.

I went through the same phase last year. In fact, so much so, that I took the GRE and on the day I was supposed to turn in my application, I had this moment... I was like, I have enough technical expertise, too many certifications and training under my belt. Does it make sense to gain even more technical knowledge? The answer was no. So, I prepared for the GMAT, got good scores, and got into B-school. And let me assure you, it is a wonderful world out there. It is shitloads of work, but something tells me it'll be worth it. I witness all these MBA's around me getting picked up by Fortune 500 companies.

Of course, the opportunities are amazing. There are so many firms out there that crave people who have the technical expertise and the business knowledge. If you end up in a decent B-school, getting a job somewhere in a consulting firm will easily fetch you six-figures. Even if you don't, you can get into management with a meager mention of the word MBA .

It all comes down to your preferences. If you are the kind of individual who gets turned on by if{}... else{} code blocks and get a hard-on when you see nested for{} loops, may be B-school isn't for you .

Just as a side note, a good B-school will not let you in if you don't have enough work experience or unless you score an 800 on the GMAT.

 

[dinkumthinkum]

No one goes to business school for knowledge. You go for social networking. Business in the United States (and the world) is conducted largely based on personal relationships. Although there is work and grades to satisfy, do not make the mistake of thinking an MBA is about academic performance.

I witness all these MBA's around me getting picked up by Fortune 500 companies.

Not to rain on your parade, but, I don't think that's necessarily true anymore. IMO there's a glut of MBA graduates out there right now. We're in a recession because we have too many managers and not enough do-ers and thinkers. Some of those smart people who went to business schools are now switching back to more technical disciplines.

Of course, the connections they made in school are probably serving them well regardless of where they end up.

It all comes down to your preferences. If you are the kind of individual who gets turned on by if{}... else{} code blocks and get a hard-on when you see nested for{} loops, may be B-school isn't for you

On the contrary, if your level of programming expertise is so meagre, you are a perfect candidate for "B-school".

 

[imported_Dhaval00]

dinkumthinkum:

a) Have you attended B-school [specifically an MBA school]? What makes you say that it is all about social networking/personal relationships?
b) We are not in a recession because "we have too many managers and not enough do-ers and thinkers." The news is old and I need not list "all" the reasons for why we're in a recession. It would also mindless to assume that all the MBA's reside on Wall Street. Maybe you should search for "MBA" on a site like Dice.

I was simply trying to expand on what others have said. Realistically, having technical knowledge and business expertise can be an invaluable combination.

 

[dinkumthinkum]

I have several friends who went onto MBA programs after graduating with technically-oriented degrees (and working a few years). It is a good combo, and I didn't say otherwise. What I say about business school is precisely what they say about it to me.

The rest of my statement was prefixed with "IMO" which should give you a hint that it's coming from a subjective perspective.

Of course the collapse of the financial industry is a part of the problem, and a very visible one. The manipulation of endlessly complex financial instruments is surely the product of some very clever minds. The trouble is, none of this fancy business actually creates anything real. It's just shuffling money around. It's supposed to be an aid to other enterprises, not an end in itself.

You need other enterprises, manufacturing, industry, labs, and academia to actually create real products and new ideas. And you need people capable and educated enough to be a part of that. And you also need managers talented enough to run them. But you don't want a company staffed entirely by managers. That's a disaster -- nothing would get done. When I refer to a glut of MBAs, this is what I'm talking about.

I blame the educational system here, frankly, it doesn't prepare or engage students to the level necessary for proper high-level work or research. K-12 is a zoo, and then you are tossed into some undergraduate program which has to deal with the unprepared entering students rather than focusing on university-level material. (Assuming you even make it this far). It's no wonder that the numbers of American graduates of engineering, science, and mathematical discipline are declining. There are many foreign students who come better prepared and are able to take advantage of the programs, but then after they graduate many of them just return home. We should be trying to attract them to stay and work here. Or fix the endemic problems with the system.

In other words, we need more do-ers and thinkers.

 

[Dougmeister]

You didn't mention your marital status, etc., so I'll assume you're single.

As a rule of thumb, it's easier to get such things as grad school out of the way while:

1) you're still single,
2) you don't have kids, and
3) you are still in "learning" mode (not that that should ever stop, but I digress...)

 

[degibson]

Originally posted by: Dougmeister
1) you're still single,

Bloody good point.

 

[monitornet]

Glad you got that settled, better to find out from the source if having that extra degree with be worth it for the position. And yeah, you can always go back to school later if you are so inclined. And maybe you won't have to go into as much debt if you do, since you'll be working and saving. For some people it's hard to get back into school mode, but it's not true for everyone.

 

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: presidentender
I talked to the company president (bachelor's in CS) and another of the co-owners (master's in CS, because it made it easier to get his green card) and both of them said that they'd be more likely, all other things being equal, to hire someone with a bachelor's and two years of experience than a master's.

This is a valid point, but is only valid once -- when you try to get the first job. Experience counts a lot for companies which aren't capable of handling fresh graduates, but all the really good companies with long-term views should and often do make a real effort to catch the best graduates right out of university, and often, this translates to just out of university with advanced degrees.

From what I hear, you're not going to have a great deal of trouble landing that "first" job -- especially in view of the company at hand, the interest from the university, and the fact that you already have some work experience.

Experience measured in years has a declining net benefit over time. Nobody's going to compare a person with 10 years of experience to someone with 12 years of experience on just the number of years. But at that point, the premium of an advanced degree can still mean something, and more to the point, have helped advanced a career by helping to build a better mental framework at the onset.

You can't go back to college easily after you've worked for some years and become accustomed to the income and lifestyle. Not getting an advanced degree when you had the chance is something that you could easily come to regret later on. Not starting to work immediately is not something that you're likely to regret beyond a year or so, if that.

There is a potential exception for when you have a very special opportunity at hand with a significant learning or advancement potential which will not be there in a couple of years -- odds are however if that one such opportunity is present, that another or more may be available after greater education. Anyone who is advising you on your interests should be able to give you such a perspective, and assure you that the choice is yours, and that they would support you in the end as they can.

 

[Deeko]

Figured I'd chime in here...

Getting a Masters is a waste of time on your own. Most jobs consider it to be a 1-2 year experience bump. And how long does it take to get that Masters? Right...1-2 years. You can do the math there. The degree isn't completely useless, just not worth it to do full time. If you're employer will pay for you to do it part time, then by all means, go for it...but not as a full time self-paid degree right after getting your BS.

As for the whole tech masters vs MBA....honestly, that's a pretty self explanatory question. Do you want to be a software engineer or do you want to be a manager? If you want to move into leadership roles, you'd be better served getting an MBA. If you want to climb the technical ladder, go for a tech degree. That's like asking if you should major in economics or computer science....the answer is which do you want to do?

 

[presidentender]

Originally posted by: Madwand1

.... Experience counts a lot for companies which aren't capable of handling fresh graduates, but all the really good companies with long-term views should and often do make a real effort to catch the best graduates right out of university, and often, this translates to just out of university with advanced degrees.

From what I hear, you're not going to have a great deal of trouble landing that "first" job -- especially in view of the company at hand, the interest from the university, and the fact that you already have some work experience.

Experience measured in years has a declining net benefit over time. Nobody's going to compare a person with 10 years of experience to someone with 12 years of experience on just the number of years. But at that point, the premium of an advanced degree can still mean something, and more to the point, have helped advanced a career by helping to build a better mental framework at the onset.

You can't go back to college easily after you've worked for some years and become accustomed to the income and lifestyle. Not getting an advanced degree when you had the chance is something that you could easily come to regret later on. Not starting to work immediately is not something that you're likely to regret beyond a year or so, if that.

There is a potential exception for when you have a very special opportunity at hand with a significant learning or advancement potential which will not be there in a couple of years -- odds are however if that one such opportunity is present, that another or more may be available after greater education. Anyone who is advising you on your interests should be able to give you such a perspective, and assure you that the choice is yours, and that they would support you in the end as they can.

That's the best argument I've seen for pursuing a graduate degree. Part of the problem with that is that this university has a notoriously poor CS program, especially at the graduate level; the fellow with the master's (from here, even) actually said "especially not here" when I asked him.

If my employer wants to pay for me to get a master's later, I won't be opposed, especially if it means a pay bump. However, given the state of things as they are now, I think my best bet is to work.