(GPU, Pro) Any other options?

[vbuggy]

5870HD / Quadro 4000 still it? Have I missed anything?

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

None of the laptops haven't been updated in awhile. Look for new specs summer/fall.

 

[TheStu]

They are probably waiting for the new Xeons before they roll out new GPUs. I think the new Xeons are due to hit in a couple months, maybe less, so expect to see them then. The real question is whether they will be backwards compatible, I think that a few years back Apple rolled out new GPUs that were artificially limited from running on the first gen Mac Pros due to lack of 64bit EFI (or something).

 

[vbuggy]

The supplementary Pros I bought even last year were already basically two years old so it'll be interesting to see what they do with it now. Yes, I realise the Pro is a crippled workstation for home anyway (for what benefit beyond looks I fail to see, since an SLI'd way faster Z800 isn't louder for example) but you'd think they'd throw users a bone. I just can't believe they've let it continue with this antique for so long.

Or maybe it is really the case that the users are such Applezombies they don't care as long as it has an Apple logo on it - though I find that hard to believe, at least for a buyer of the Pro.

 

[TheStu]

The supplementary Pros I bought even last year were already basically two years old so it'll be interesting to see what they do with it now. Yes, I realise the Pro is a crippled workstation for home anyway (for what benefit beyond looks I fail to see, since an SLI'd way faster Z800 isn't louder for example) but you'd think they'd throw users a bone. I just can't believe they've let it continue with this antique for so long.

Or maybe it is really the case that the users are such Applezombies they don't care as long as it has an Apple logo on it - though I find that hard to believe, at least for a buyer of the Pro.

NM, reported for trolling

 

[vbuggy]

Being incredulous and wondering if there's another option is trolling?

I guess it is for some - I criticised Apple. Do you realise the abuse and scorn that would be heaped on any other company pulling this kind of stunt?

The 4000 isn't generally a meaningful upgrade in terms of general-purpose use, and this has to be the longest they've gone without even some kind of third-party bone, if I haven't missed an option. I'd very like to have missed a viable one, because I'll be all over it.

 

[TheStu]

Being incredulous and wondering if there's another option is trolling?

I guess it is for some - I criticised Apple. Do you realise the abuse and scorn that would be heaped on any other company pulling this kind of stunt?

The 4000 isn't generally a meaningful upgrade in terms of general-purpose use, and this has to be the longest they've gone without even some kind of third-party bone, if I haven't missed an option. I'd very like to have missed a viable one, because I'll be all over it.

I don't care if you attack Apple, they can take care of themselves. But it is rather your insistence on attacking the USERS, the very people that you have come to, that I take offense to. I can count on 1 hand the number of threads that you have either started or posted in that you DIDN'T attack apple users in. That is trolling. Actually it falls closer to personal attacks. Really, it is just being an irritating little snot, but since we don't have a code for that, warning/infracting you for trolling or personal attacks will have to do.

 

[ViRGE]

As Stu noted, the Pros are basically waiting on a CPU refresh. Unfortunately Intel's workstation/server platforms had a long refresh cycle this time around, and Apple is not known for doing mid-cycle refreshes on the Pro.

You're not going to see anything better until then, unless NVIDIA is really dying to release a Kepler card for the Mac.

 

[vbuggy]

Well that's not the full story - the Westmere CPU's have gone significantly beyond what Apple currently offers for example, and the lack of brand new architecture didn't prevent Apple from warming over their lines in '10. The Pro's have basically been the same now since, what, '09?

But we've had no third party stuff at all, which is rare - you'd think now, with the paucity of upgrades available, is when people start digging out their wallets for GPU upgrades. Even a GTX 580 would be good - as long as the drivers are OK. I've found NVidia drivers on OS X historically don't wring performance from the hardware in anywhere near the same way as Windows. ATI has IMO had a better history in that respect but I don't remember seeing too many independently-released Mac GPU's from them recently.

 

[ViRGE]

Well that's not the full story - the Westmere CPU's have gone significantly beyond what Apple currently offers for example, and the lack of brand new architecture didn't prevent Apple from warming over their lines in '10. The Pro's have basically been the same now since, what, '09?

But we've had no third party stuff at all, which is rare - you'd think now, with the paucity of upgrades available, is when people start digging out their wallets for GPU upgrades. Even a GTX 580 would be good - as long as the drivers are OK. I've found NVidia drivers on OS X historically don't wring performance from the hardware in anywhere near the same way as Windows. ATI has IMO had a better history in that respect but I don't remember seeing too many independently-released Mac GPU's from them recently.

The '10 upgrade was replacing the 45nm Gainestown (Nehalem) with the 32nm Westmere (Gulftown). Apple will refresh the Pros when Intel has new CPUs as per Intel's tick-tock strategy, but Apple hasn't refreshed them for speed bumps.

As for the lack of 3rd party GPUs, I don't think it should be considered surprising. Look at how few Mac Pros Apple sells, and then look at how few of them have ever had their GPU replaced. The fact that NVIDIA released the Quadro 4000 was a small miracle in and of itself, and realistically that's as good as it's going to get for Fermi cards because of the power requirements.

This doesn't even take into account the fact that you need approval from Apple to release such a video card - you won't make it very far without them integrating the driver into future versions of Mac OS X. Which on that note you're right about driver performance: the entire Mac OS X graphics stack is tuned for stability over performance. You're basically looking at workstation drivers.

 

[vbuggy]

The '10 upgrade was replacing the 45nm Gainestown (Nehalem) with the 32nm Westmere (Gulftown). Apple will refresh the Pros when Intel has new CPUs as per Intel's tick-tock strategy, but Apple hasn't refreshed them for speed bumps.

The former does make sense. The latter doesn't though given their behaviour with every other model line.

As for the lack of 3rd party GPUs, I don't think it should be considered surprising. Look at how few Mac Pros Apple sells

I don't actually know how few they sell. I do know I've bought a literal truckload of the glorified home computers since 2006 though as I don't really have a choice (beyond a ruinously expensive port - which I did half embark on).

Now though I'm not really bothered as much - I've bugged out of OS X for everything genuinely important - but I have a pile of Pro's still and switching to them from the Z800's it just feels like wading in molasses - and most of the time it's not the CPU that's really the issue, it's everything around it. As I said, apart from the CPU the rest is practically antique, irrelevant of tick-tock.

Which on that note you're right about driver performance: the entire Mac OS X graphics stack is tuned for stability over performance. You're basically looking at workstation drivers.

More "stability" that Quadro drivers in Windows?
Did the GTX 285 need that "stability"?
Hmmm.... :hmm:

Arguments aside though, I guess I'm looking in vain right now. There seems to be always something I do which needs OS X - and though much as possible I'd like to run what I have now into the ground and eventually bug out of OS X altogether, I guess I will probably end up having to replace the kit like a good Applezombie.

 

[slashbinslashbash]

FYI, a bunch of PC 5xxx and 6xxx cards will work with Pros now due to embedded drivers in OSX. So no need to pay out the ass for a Mac-specific version. My '06 Mac Pro is still limited by its power capabilities AFAIK, and I'm not really into gaming or other GPU-intensive stuff, so I'm looking for a 5770 as a low-power, low-noise upgrade since my 3870 started having VRAM corruption issues.

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/03/mac-os-x-may-natively-support-pc-radeon-graphics-cards.ars

 

[vbuggy]

Hmmm. Thanks for the link. The article is pretty old - is there evidence of it actually working on the 6970?
(and even then, the 6970 trails well behind even a first-gen GTX 580 and is barely better than the 5870 so really a debatable upgrade)

 

[ViRGE]

The former does make sense. The latter doesn't though given their behaviour with every other model line.

It's the difference between the consumer and workstation markets. Consumers love new stuff; the last thing workstation software vendors want to do is certify yet another machine. With workstations you take pride in not changing for lot periods of time.

More "stability" that Quadro drivers in Windows?
Did the GTX 285 need that "stability"?
Hmmm.... :hmm:

I don't mean stability in terms of not crashing, but stability in terms of ensuring the drivers and hardware don't misbehave. Workstation users have no tolerance for errors or bugs, especially undocumented bugs. So workstation drivers typically take paths that are slower but are easier to debug and/or prove to be free of bugs.

 

[vbuggy]

It's the difference between the consumer and workstation markets. Consumers love new stuff; the last thing workstation software vendors want to do is certify yet another machine. With workstations you take pride in not changing for lot periods of time.
I don't mean stability in terms of not crashing, but stability in terms of ensuring the drivers and hardware don't misbehave. Workstation users have no tolerance for errors or bugs, especially undocumented bugs. So workstation drivers typically take paths that are slower but are easier to debug and/or prove to be free of bugs.

I could repeat my question, so I won't.