Question GPU pricing should clearly be higher across the board, but by how much?

[moonbogg]

The 6600XT is sold out everywhere with pricing between $4-600 roughly. That card would normally cost roughly $2-250. I think gamers are buying these. They aren't getting all snapped up by miners. Also, gamers have shown a willingness to pay $2000 for a 3080Ti on ebay. I think it's clear that if Nvidia and AMD simply increased prices across the board by 2-4X, they'd still sell every card instantly.
What price range do you think people would buy cards at? I propose the following for honestly being perfectly reasonable and acceptable (meaning, people will pay it). If a product instantly sells out, that means people spend no time deliberating. It's a no-brainer purchase which means there is a lot of room left to increase prices until sales start to flatten out a little and normalize. If something sells out instantly you can charge more easily.

I think the following prices moving forward, pandemic or not, would still see every model sell out instantly.

Low-end (X50 class) - $400 (faster than integrated solutions, so should cost more than a high end APU)
X60 - $800 (not a stretch considering 6600XT sold out at $600)
X70 - $1500
X80 - $2000
X80Ti - $2500
Titan - $3000-$5000

 

[Leeea]

The high prices are entirely miner driven.

I think a lot of gamers who are not willing to embrace hobby mining are just sitting on old cards which continue to run just peachy.

 

[moonbogg]

Prices went up and gamers continue to pay more. It's not an issue. Gamers sit on old cards because nothing is in stock below $2000 on ebay. They have to wait for an $800 RTX 4060. Then they can upgrade.

 

[VirtualLarry]

The high prices are entirely miner driven.

LOL... have you not been paying attention?

"Why have car companies had to cut production?" "Miners?" *BZZT* "Wrong, Bob"

 

[Leeea]

"Why have car companies had to cut production?" "Miners?" *BZZT* "Wrong, Bob"

That reminds me, I recently purchased a Navi 23 RDNA 2, but I am having a hard time getting it out of its packaging. The company I bought it from forced me to buy it as part of a pre-built. The packaging is larger then expected, and the GPU is well hidden. I initially thought it would be right behind the center console, but it seems more complicated then that.

Also, I am beginning to realize this excessively over built case also has a lithium battery built into a bottom tray that will be difficult to dispose of. My e-waste recycler is refusing to accept the michelin pilot super sport case rollers. I get they are going for the premium case experience with the whole airbag protection system, but all I want to do is get the GPU out and dump the rest. The build quality and custom OEM parts on these cases is just getting ridiculous! They put a custom water cooling loop with an "octovalve" and a heat pump in for some reason.

It getting downright frustrating to get a GPU out of its packaging these days.

 

[moonbogg]

The key to raising prices is to simply not give gamers a choice. No GPU's under $400 and anything capable of 1440P or better is $800+. It kind of makes sense. If all you need is basic 1080p casual gaming there are integrated solutions these days that handle that just fine. Anything more is premium and enthusiast class and should cost more. GPU's used to be all about being able to simply play a game at a common resolution. They have moved beyond that now so the prices need to move up as well. People will definitely pay it, no problem. Can you honestly tell me gamers won't pay it? Really? It's not like people use money to buy things anyway, so what's a little more debt? They don't care, trust me. They just want that new GPU and if there's room on the credit card, they're going to buy it instantly upon release.
I'd predict that if GPU sales were limited to debit card purchases only, GPU sales would plummet by 90% or greater and the entire industry would collapse in a single generation. All of those people who make excuses for using credit by claiming "oh my points I get and blah blah", these people would simply end up not getting a card.

 

[aigomorla]

Miners wont buy a 3000 dollar videocard.
They will buy a asic machine before they drop that much money.

1700 is about a realistic cutoff point for a miner.
The ones doing 3090 mining are the extreme guys who do it also for ticktoc and articles to get some form of add revenue from it.

If i recall i believe redpanda said the ideal gpu machine was a rig full of RX580 / 1660 Supers / 2060 /2070.
The higher end cards have too much requirement in power and also the fact you can only have 80% of 15A-20A on a single socket to a single breaker switch unless you want to burn your house down.

 

[VirtualLarry]

If i recall i believe redpanda said the ideal gpu machine was a rig full of RX580 / 1660 Supers / 2060 /2070.
The higher end cards have too much requirement in power and also the fact you can only have 80% of 15A-20A on a single socket to a single breaker switch unless you want to burn your house down.

Hell yeah, but I would add an addendum, include the 3060(ti) and RX 6600XT in that list as well, for being a low-power decent bang-for-buck mining card. I just wish that I stocked up on GTX 1660 Super cards, back when they were available for $230-240 MSRP prices. (Not too too long ago, BestBuy.com had some PNY variants for just that much, but now... call it inflation, call it "scalping", call it "tariffs", call it whatever, even BestBuy is now charging quite a bit of money for just a "simple" GTX 1660 Super these days.)

At least, the GTX 1660 Super is still available.

NB. I did buy three of them, at "scalper prices" (near or over $600 ea.) on ebay, not too long ago. And then prices dipped, and then went back up again. Sigh. Can't a miner get a break, among other miners. Ferenghis, the lot of them.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Prices follow supply/demand curve. Current pricing is a combination of chip shortage and mining demand. Too much demand and too little supply right now. When those variables change so will the price. Personally I do think once ETH goes PoS and once chip shortages are resolved we'll see prices return to normal in a year or two from now. I'm actually somewhat optimistic we'll see lower than expected prices since AMD can now compete across the board with Nvidia.

 

[mohit9206]

If you keep the shortage due to miners aside, component prices have gone up 20-25% so that would impact the cost of graphics card by atleast 10%. So if it weren't for pandemic, 6600xt would be $300. Now adding increased component prices into the mix, 6600xt should be $330. So its $50 overpriced if even if there would be no shortage due to mining. 3060 12GB would be $280 and 3060Ti around $350.

 

[moonbogg]

It's very simple in my mind. Prices increased, gamers didn't mind it and paid anyway, prices will stay where they are at or go up again. Clearly Nvidia and AMD undervalued and undercharged people for their products. It couldn't be any clearer.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

@moonbogg 's bitterness has reached a critical mass and has begun to collapse in on itself from its own negativity, forming a null space where realities overlap and no one can tell where the sardonic humor ends and the pragmatic realism begins...

 

[Insert_Nickname]

At least, the GTX 1660 Super is still available.

If you can find one here, they're the same price (~3500DKK) as a 6600XT. Same with the 2060's. Going for 3899DKK. I think I'd rather have a 6600XT.

 

[Sable]

serious thread is deadly serious.

 

[CP5670]

He is right. The video card prices go up every generation because Nvidia/AMD have realized there is plenty of demand at that price point. It's not really inflation as much as them better understanding what the market will support.

Nobody has to buy the $4000 Titan, and most games won't even make full use of it. It will be just like a high performance car, nobody needs it and it cannot even be used to its full potential on roads, but they have no trouble selling them. The top card also creates an aura that lets them sell more of the $200-400 cards most gamers look for.

PC gaming is very popular and mainstream now, and I think the brands are becoming just as valuable as the actual hardware. Like ROG, Aorus, Corsair, etc. Kids want to buy into the brand when they see youtubers promoting it, and are willing to pay for the brand. It's just like Apple, their products are decent enough but the real value is in the brand.

 

[Mopetar]

Inflation plays a small part, and probably a larger one depending on how it adjusts over the next few years because it's certainly going to be above 2% now, but AMD and Nvidia are making larger and larger GPUs that keep pushing the limits further.

RV770 (Radeon 4870) was 256 mm^2 when it launched back in 2008 at $300 and was AMD's big die. Navi 23 is now the small die at 237 mm^2 and it costs $380 (well at MSRP anyhow which isn't worth much), which is actually what $300 from 2008 would be worth now.

The market has changed significantly since then in terms of just discrete cards and that's not even factoring in the inclusion of APUs and how they've eroded the low-end of the market entirely at this point.

 

[fleshconsumed]

It's very simple in my mind. Prices increased, gamers didn't mind it and paid anyway, prices will stay where they are at or go up again. Clearly Nvidia and AMD undervalued and undercharged people for their products. It couldn't be any clearer.

He is right. The video card prices go up every generation because Nvidia/AMD have realized there is plenty of demand at that price point. It's not really inflation as much as them better understanding what the market will support.

Nobody has to buy the $4000 Titan, and most games won't even make full use of it. It will be just like a high performance car, nobody needs it and it cannot even be used to its full potential on roads, but they have no trouble selling them. The top card also creates an aura that lets them sell more of the $200-400 cards most gamers look for.

PC gaming is very popular and mainstream now, and I think the brands are becoming just as valuable as the actual hardware. Like ROG, Aorus, Corsair, etc. Kids want to buy into the brand when they see youtubers promoting it, and are willing to pay for the brand. It's just like Apple, their products are decent enough but the real value is in the brand.

I seriously doubt it. Just look at the high end AM4 CPU price trajectory over the past 6 months. For a time the only way to get 5950x at MSRP was if you camped at microcenter for 8 hours before opening on the day they got stock, either that or you had to pay 50% over MSRP from scalpers. What about now? Now you can easily get 5950x at MSRP, there are even modest sales going on 5900x/5950x. Same thing is going to happen with GPUs once ETH goes PoS and once supply improves.

 

[jpiniero]

I seriously doubt it. Just look at the high end AM4 CPU price trajectory over the past 6 months. For a time the only way to get 5950x at MSRP was if you camped at microcenter for 8 hours before opening on the day they got stock, either that or you had to pay 50% over MSRP from scalpers. What about now? Now you can easily get 5950x at MSRP, there are even modest sales going on 5900x/5950x.

I wouldn't really compare the Ryzen situation because there is finite demand for DIY Ryzen. Just that AMD wasn't really able to fill it until recently.

 

[Ranulf]

serious thread is deadly serious.

Super Cereal guys.

 

[moonbogg]

Another way to address pricing issues is to make sure miners buy mining cards and gamers buy gaming cards. This is done by creating two waiting areas outside of a store for the different customers to wait their turn to enter. Everyone knows how this works and it does work, and it goes like this: Gamers go in first and get their gaming card. They are in an out fast, so no big deal. Mining customers have to wait outside for them to finish, so they will enjoy the shade created by the large shadow cast from overhead in the waiting area. The motivation for treating miners better by giving them shade while gamers have no sun cover (gamers finish sooner after all) can be expressed with the following words:

A little kindness goes a long way
Never ignore a miner on a hot summer's day
Verify their GPU needs and queue them in the shade
It needn't take long, no cause for dismay
Live and let live, thanks for shopping and we hope you enjoyed your stay

 

[jpiniero]

 

[moonbogg]

^ Can you PLEASE stop posting about Konkey Dong?

 

[jpiniero]

^ Can you PLEASE stop posting about Konkey Dong?

I thought I only posted once. Must be getting old.

Anyway, needless to say the GPU situation isn't changing unless Ethereum's price goes way down. You can make all the threads complaining about it but that won't change anything. Maybe you should just buy a console and be done with it.

 

[moonbogg]

I thought I only posted once. Must be getting old.

Anyway, needless to say the GPU situation isn't changing unless Ethereum's price goes way down. You can make all the threads complaining about it but that won't change anything. Maybe you should just buy a console and be done with it.

Buy a console? Not a bad idea, especially since PS5 VR is looking to be great. Of course, I can't buy a console either. We're just talking about video games here, so I haven't lost perspective. But complaining tends to fix things, so I do my part and so should YOU.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Buy a console? Not a bad idea, especially since PS5 VR is looking to be great. Of course, I can't buy a console either. We're just talking about video games here, so I haven't lost perspective. But complaining tends to fix things, so I do my part and so should YOU.

I bought an Alienware, kept the 3080, and sold the rest of the machine to my brother. So I “only” ended up paying $1200-$1300 for the card.

There is a shortage of silicon hitting multiple industries right now. I’m in the Steam Deck waiting line and just ordered a 3080 laptop last night, so it will be interesting to see how long it takes for those to actually land in my hands.