Question GPU pricing should clearly be higher across the board, but by how much?

[moonbogg]

The 6600XT is sold out everywhere with pricing between $4-600 roughly. That card would normally cost roughly $2-250. I think gamers are buying these. They aren't getting all snapped up by miners. Also, gamers have shown a willingness to pay $2000 for a 3080Ti on ebay. I think it's clear that if Nvidia and AMD simply increased prices across the board by 2-4X, they'd still sell every card instantly.
What price range do you think people would buy cards at? I propose the following for honestly being perfectly reasonable and acceptable (meaning, people will pay it). If a product instantly sells out, that means people spend no time deliberating. It's a no-brainer purchase which means there is a lot of room left to increase prices until sales start to flatten out a little and normalize. If something sells out instantly you can charge more easily.

I think the following prices moving forward, pandemic or not, would still see every model sell out instantly.

Low-end (X50 class) - $400 (faster than integrated solutions, so should cost more than a high end APU)
X60 - $800 (not a stretch considering 6600XT sold out at $600)
X70 - $1500
X80 - $2000
X80Ti - $2500
Titan - $3000-$5000

 

[blckgrffn]

Yeah I know. It might make more sense at the next in store BB from to get a 3090 FE and water block it. Those are only 1499

If you are going to go, might as well go all out. Next Gen will likely be crazier.

Those that got “ripped off” buying a 2080 Ti back in the day I hope feel smug if they are “stuck” with it now. They’ve been using that beefy of a card this whole time.

I will long rue the day when I skipped a $450 2080ti for $450 with a Kraken in these very FS/FT forums during the great Ampere dump of whenever that was. Honestly the Kraken kinda scared me off.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Those that got “ripped off” buying a 2080 Ti back in the day I hope feel smug if they are “stuck” with it now. They’ve been using that beefy of a card this whole time.

I will long rue the day when I skipped a $450 2080ti for $450 with a Kraken in these very FS/FT forums during the great Ampere dump of whenever that was. Honestly the Kraken kinda scared me off.

-Woulda/Coulda/Shoulda is a dangerous game my friend.

I'm in the same boat, was looking at the sales on 2xxx series cards and thought "nah, my buy price is a little lower, all I have to do is wait for another $50 to $100 to come off"

Passed over plenty of good deals looking for a better one that never came, and that's just life. Now the 2nd hand market is going to remain artificially inflated because people will see MSRP - $100 prices and jump on it thanks to everything being so inflated for the last year. Doubt we'll see killer second hand deals any time soon, even when supply stabilizes.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Please... I want to hear more about supply and demand, how the magic invisible hand of the market is supposed to fix everything, and how us consumers are scum for wanting to pay reasonable (aka LOW) prices instead of dealing with an artificially-created scarcity and tags above the 1K mark.

As a counterpart, I offer this piece of news:

Sapphire, PowerColor and XFX send large shipment of Radeon graphics cards to cryptomining hardware retailer - VideoCardz.com

Sapphire and PowerColor Radeon RX 6000 cards spotted at mining retailer Cryptominers Bahrain is boasting about a new shipment of graphics to their warehouse. Sapphire and PowerColor Radeon cards at CryptoMining Hardware Retailer, Source: Cryptominers.bh The company located in Bahrain and Dubai...

videocardz.com

 

[VirtualLarry]

It is truly disgraceful behavior by distributors to deliver such a large number to companies specializing in building mining hardware when gamers are struggling to find cards in stock.

Yes, so disgraceful, that these (for-profit corporations) are going where the profits are best, instead of going to poor, broke-ask gamers living in their mother's basements. Want some cheese with that whine?

In other news, "Games leave basement. find actual reality staring them in the face outside. Some may be forced to find work and pay for themselves."

 

[jpiniero]

Please... I want to hear more about supply and demand, how the magic invisible hand of the market is supposed to fix everything, and how us consumers are scum for wanting to pay reasonable (aka LOW) prices instead of dealing with an artificially-created scarcity and tags above the 1K mark.

Artificial implies that the demand from miners isn't real.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Artificial implies that the demand from miners isn't real.

It could also mean that it's artificially sustained. Because capitalism.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Yes, so disgraceful, that these (for-profit corporations) are going where the profits are best, instead of going to poor, broke-ask gamers living in their mother's basements. Want some cheese with that whine?

In other news, "Games leave basement. find actual reality staring them in the face outside. Some may be forced to find work and pay for themselves."

Coming from a No Lifer, there's more than a smack of unintended irony in that statement...

Dude, I get it: mining has changed your life and has given it meaning. You've defended it before.
However, it's still a piece of *** thing to do - consuming electricity for the sake of projected value, and socializing costs while maximizing individual profits.

Profanity is not allowed in the technical forums -Moderator Shmee

 

[jpiniero]

It could also mean that it's artificially sustained. Because capitalism.

Some fear of crypto prices crashing is why neither is radically increasing production beyond what nVidia did with CMP Turing.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Please... I want to hear more about supply and demand, how the magic invisible hand of the market is supposed to fix everything, and how us consumers are scum for wanting to pay reasonable (aka LOW) prices instead of dealing with an artificially-created scarcity and tags above the 1K mark.

Free markets are not going to magically fix themselves. That's an illusion most are fond of however. They've just failed to follow their line of of reasoning fully through. Free markets are just that. Free.

Fair markets are what most really want. That requires at least some rules. Always have.

Yes, so disgraceful, that these (for-profit corporations) are going where the profits are best, instead of going to poor, broke-ask gamers living in their mother's basements. Want some cheese with that whine?

In other news, "Games leave basement. find actual reality staring them in the face outside. Some may be forced to find work and pay for themselves."

That's a little harsh. Some of us do work for a living. Just refuse to get ripped of. Too much anyway.

 

[VirtualLarry]

That's a little harsh. Some of us do work for a living. Just refuse to get ripped of. Too much anyway.

Sorry, it was a bit of stereotyping, but it was based on a few real-world examples of a few friends, who self-identify as "gamers".

 

[jpiniero]

Hah, Newegg now has a "lowest price in 30 days" tag. As they are selling a 1650 Super for $399.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Sorry, it was a bit of stereotyping, but it was based on a few real-world examples of a few friends, who self-identify as "gamers".

No offence taken. You seem like a decent guy to be honest Larry, so it'd take an awful lot more to convince me otherwise.

I mean, I don't even have a basement. Neither do my parents. So I guess I can't really identify as a gamer anyway.



Edit; Yeah, about the work bit there is an old Russian(?) saying that seems appropriate: "As long as the bosses pretend to pay us, we'll pretend to work..."

 

[VirtualLarry]

I mean, I don't even have a basement. Neither do my parents. So I guess I can't really identify as a gamer anyway.

LOL. I mean, I don't actually hate gamers, and I provide GPUs to my friends. The high prices suck, I was a part-time sort-of system-builder, but if the cheapest workable GPU that I can find to re-sell in a build is a $400 GTX 1650 Super, I'm not going to have many customers.

 

[NomanA]

These are false statements.

Supply and demand affects BOTH gamers and miners.

Right now, the prices are solely determined by miners and they are gobbling up almost all the graphic cards. That's the reason why 5700XT is selling for more than 6700XT on NewEgg. 6700XT is clearly better in gaming, but has comparatively lower Ehtereum mining efficiency.

 

[Mopetar]

It could also mean that it's artificially sustained. Because capitalism.

That's practically an oxymoron. Unless someone were trying to engage in some kind of fraudulent behavior akin to a pump and dump scheme it makes no sense for anyone acting in their own economic interest to throw good money after bad to prop something up artificially.

That isn't to say people always act rationally or make ideal decisions even based on the less than perfect information they have, but no one with an honest position wants any kind of artificial distortion because even though it may be good for short term positions it's not over the long term.

However, it's still a piece of shit thing to do - consuming electricity for the sake of projected value, and socializing costs while maximizing individual profits.

That's an argument against subsidies, not Larry. What the hell does anyone expect when you make something artificially cheap? It gets over consumed. At least Larry is doing something economically productive (even if you disagree with that activity) with it. Most idiots just leave their lights and TV on when they aren't home.

If mining is immoral for electricity consumption the people who consume electricity for their own amusement (i.e. gamers) are hardly any better.

 

[blckgrffn]

That's practically an oxymoron. Unless someone were trying to engage in some kind of fraudulent behavior akin to a pump and dump scheme it makes no sense for anyone acting in their own economic interest to throw good money after bad to prop something up artificially.

That isn't to say people always act rationally or make ideal decisions even based on the less than perfect information they have, but no one with an honest position wants any kind of artificial distortion because even though it may be good for short term positions it's not over the long term.



That's an argument against subsidies, not Larry. What the hell does anyone expect when you make something artificially cheap? It gets over consumed. At least Larry is doing something economically productive (even if you disagree with that activity) with it. Most idiots just leave their lights and TV on when they aren't home.

If mining is immoral for electricity consumption the people who consume electricity for their own amusement (i.e. gamers) are hardly any better.

Using electric heat to keep your home over 68 degrees (lol, insert whatever temp you want) is also unnecessary during the winter, amiright? Someone could righteously claim this while driving their half ton truck around town.

So much frivolous use of energy and resources all around.

 

[Mopetar]

Using electric heat to keep your home over 68 degrees (lol, insert whatever temp you want) is also unnecessary during the winter, amiright? Someone could righteously claim this while driving their half ton truck around town.

So much frivolous use of energy and resources all around.

Who gets to decide what's frivolous? I'm sure you'd not like it as soon as someone decided your favorite hobby or the activities you enjoy are frivolous and tries to ban them.

If someone pays for a GPU with their own money it's none of our business what they do with just like what you do with your time and property is none of their business.

Almost anything a person might do will be considered frivolous by some other person. The person who thinks 65 degrees is sufficiently warm and that anyone needing 68 is just being frivolous is just as frivolous themselves to the person who say 60 degrees ought to be enough. Set your thermostat to whatever you please. It's no one else's business and they can set their own to whatever makes them comfortable.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Almost anything a person might do will be considered frivolous by some other person. The person who thinks 65 degrees is sufficiently warm and that anyone needing 68 is just being frivolous is just as frivolous themselves to the person who say 60 degrees ought to be enough. Set your thermostat to whatever you please. It's no one else's business and they can set their own to whatever makes them comfortable.

This is exactly why the Free Market exists, and why these issues should already be priced into the market.

 

[blckgrffn]

Who gets to decide what's frivolous? I'm sure you'd not like it as soon as someone decided your favorite hobby or the activities you enjoy are frivolous and tries to ban them.

If someone pays for a GPU with their own money it's none of our business what they do with just like what you do with your time and property is none of their business.

Almost anything a person might do will be considered frivolous by some other person. The person who thinks 65 degrees is sufficiently warm and that anyone needing 68 is just being frivolous is just as frivolous themselves to the person who say 60 degrees ought to be enough. Set your thermostat to whatever you please. It's no one else's business and they can set their own to whatever makes them comfortable.

Yeah, I hope you got that was my point.

Firstly, subjective wastage is subjective. In my example some people sit and shiver at one temp and this is bad for them, other people are fine. Whatever. Other people don't care what they drive and an econobox is the same to them as something bigger and "better" whereas some people do care. A lot.

Secondly, tons of people make "sub optimal energy and resource usage" decisions on a daily basis that to consider it is fairly exhausting. I don't think many people are very rational in this regard. Everywhere but especially in the US we are constantly using more resources than "necessary" to survive.

My Father in Law barks at my kiddos (and occasionally me) when we walk out of a room without immediately turning the light off at his place. The last time he did it to me I was going to a different part of the house to carry something back and I ignored him and this really drew his ire.

Of course all of these lights are incandescent because they are cheaper and he has a huge stash of them to use up before he'll consider LEDs. 🤷‍♂️

 

[VirtualLarry]

Of course all of these lights are incandescent because they are cheaper and he has a huge stash of them to use up before he'll consider LEDs. 🤷‍♂️

LOL.

Anyways, I've been running LED lights for ages, and I was thinking about this the other day, I'm actually offsetting the greenhouse gas emissions from my "mining", because I basically don't drive much at all anymore. Of course, I do get things delivered to me; pizza, Amazon / Newegg purchases, and the like. So, it's kind of like, six of one, half a dozen of the other, I guess.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Of course all of these lights are incandescent because they are cheaper and he has a huge stash of them to use up before he'll consider LEDs. 🤷‍♂️

LOL.

I think Larrys comment nailed it.

On a more serious note, have you tried doing the math for him? I'll wager he's burning more money then the pile of incandescent bulbs are worth on a regular basis. LEDs are really big time energy savers. Sometimes, people baulk when you show them on black and white what's actually happening.

Anyways, I've been running LED lights for ages, and I was thinking about this the other day, I'm actually offsetting the greenhouse gas emissions from my "mining", because I basically don't drive much at all anymore. Of course, I do get things delivered to me; pizza, Amazon / Newegg purchases, and the like. So, it's kind of like, six of one, half a dozen of the other, I guess.

Well. It's flat-out impossible to exist in this world without consuming some resources. It's better to just accept that different people use those resources in different ways. There isn't a right or wrong way about living. You can make some choices to conserve resources, but you have to be careful they aren't added elsewhere in the system.

Meanwhile, I'll happily eat my steak, since I haven't flown anywhere in quite a while. (I saw a paper showing you can eat, I think, 89kg of beef on a one way trip from Denmark to Thailand. Presumably you'll want to get home sometime so doubling up is fair)

 

[blckgrffn]

On a more serious note, have you tried doing the math for him? I'll wager he's burning more money then the pile of incandescent bulbs are worth on a regular basis. LEDs are really big time energy savers. Sometimes, people baulk when you show them on black and white what's actually happening.

99% percent sure that I could gift him the LEDs and it wouldn't matter. I'd have to also destroy the bulbs in the sockets and then the other stash because he's paid for those and by golly he's gonna need to use them up! It's just how he's wired.

That's part of the point, really. People's decisions and actions are often far from rational. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Insert_Nickname]

99% percent sure that I could gift him the LEDs and it wouldn't matter. I'd have to also destroy the bulbs in the sockets and then the other stash because he's paid for those and by golly he's gonna need to use them up! It's just how he's wired.

That's part of the point, really. People's decisions and actions are often far from rational. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Know the type. So there isn't really more to say.

 

[biostud]

People would pay more for everything even toiletpapir if there's a lack of supply or no competition. It has nothing to do with the product itself but is a simple question of supply and demand.

 

[UsandThem]

People would pay more for everything even toiletpapir if there's a lack of supply or no competition. It has nothing to do with the product itself but is a simple question of supply and demand.

While mining remains as profitable as it has been over the last 18 months, and/or flippers can make money by selling them to people willing to grossly overpay for them, there will never be enough supply to satisfy demand.