GPU prices have gone.... up? Are we screwed from here on out?

[AzN]

I have, and I tend to agree with v8envy's assessment. Their website is horrible, dirty, and not at all pleasant to shop in.

Give me Amazon, Newegg for online or Fry's (despite how much I hate Fry's underhanded practices) or MicroCenter any day over any TD.

That's the first time ever heard a person call a website dirty. lol

Tiger direct has some great prices. I bought my i3 for $85 shipped. I don't shop to look at pretty websites. I shop to for prices then customer service whether that be newegg, TD, or whatever.

Meghan54's unedited quote is nothing like what you quoted here. If you're going to quote people, do not change the context around. I have no idea why you did this. Please correct it.
Anandtech Moderator - Keysplayr

 

[blanketyblank]

I've purchased stuff from TD. They aren't bad. Their customer service isn't great since I had to wait on hold for over an hour to cancel something once, but otherwise I've got my items on time and more importantly without CA tax. Sucks that they usually charge shipping though.

However AzN the problem here is you are equating having stock with ready supply, and that's not necessarily accurate. Just because a product isn't completely sold out doesn't mean they have tons of them ready. It just means that the rate at which they are being bought minus the rate at which they are supplied has not exceeded the stockpile currently available yet. It's a particularly dubious assumption since the price has been raised over MSRP for a while now which reduces demand. An OEM card with just a 3 month warranty isn't a great indicator either for retail cards.

Finally it's childish to think ATI should make it a goal to hurt NV. The goal of both companies is to make as much money as possible for their shareholders. Even if undercutting NV allowed them to make a profit if it is less than the profit they would have made by pricing the cards higher it would be mismanagement of the company.
Also it should be noted that if ATI sold its cards without profit for a period just to kill off competition in the market and then make money later, it would likely get its ass sued off for antitrust.

 

[AzN]

I've purchased stuff from TD. They aren't bad. Their customer service isn't great since I had to wait on hold for over an hour to cancel something once, but otherwise I've got my items on time and more importantly without CA tax. Sucks that they usually charge shipping though.

However AzN the problem here is you are equating having stock with ready supply, and that's not necessarily accurate. Just because a product isn't completely sold out doesn't mean they have tons of them ready. It just means that the rate at which they are being bought minus the rate at which they are supplied has not exceeded the stockpile currently available yet. It's a particularly dubious assumption since the price has been raised over MSRP for a while now which reduces demand. An OEM card with just a 3 month warranty isn't a great indicator either for retail cards.

Finally it's childish to think ATI should make it a goal to hurt NV. The goal of both companies is to make as much money as possible for their shareholders. Even if undercutting NV allowed them to make a profit if it is less than the profit they would have made by pricing the cards higher it would be mismanagement of the company.
Also it should be noted that if ATI sold its cards without profit for a period just to kill off competition in the market and then make money later, it would likely get its ass sued off for antitrust.

You are being silly. AMD has much higher yields than Nvdia at the moment. Unless you work for AMD chip producing department you don't know how many chips they have available so you trying to side with something you know nothing about is silly.

It's childish to compete? I thought that was the free market? Intel has been doing it to AMD for years. I suppose Intel is Childish. Capitalism is childish.

 

[Dribble]

Have to agree, prices have been bad since the end of the 4000 and 200 series. Bought an o/c 260 a year ago thinking this might be a bad idea as it was late in the 200 series life so faster newer cards could appear at any time, but it was cheap. How wrong I was - it's turned out to be a bargain.

Since I got it the only things that have come out and properly beat it performance wise are the 5850+5870 and the 470+480. They cost 2 times or more what I paid for my 260. As a 260 owner I don't know when I will upgrade - I mean they keep bringing out cards that cost a lot more then my 260 but broadly perform the same (e.g. 5830).

I have no idea when I will next get the chance to spend what I did on my 260 (£125) to double my performance which is essentially what I did when I bought the 260 (doubled over a 8800GT, which cost £160).

 

[blanketyblank]

That's the thing they can drop another $100 and still make big profit and hurt Nvidia. Remember original launch price was actually lower than what it is now and they weren't hurting on profits either. 300mm chips shouldn't be more than $200-$250 this late into production of Cypress.

That's exactly my point. I don't know, but since you don't know either you can't really make a statement like that. You are giving dollar amounts, but since you have no idea how many chips they have or how much it costs them your statement is baseless.

It's childish to compete if all you succeed in doing is hurting yourself as well.
As much as you'd like to think these companies are out to kill each other, the reality is they are more likely to collude to fix prices, screw over consumers, and make more money.
The only reason a company should lower prices is if it thinks it can make more money by selling more units at the lower price than it can at the original price. Competition only plays a part in this by changing the number of units that would sell at the lower price vs. the original price.

Obviously ATI has not made that decision, and from a business standpoint that's probably a good one. Even at current prices its cards are already cheaper than NV, and since there are less than 10,000 Fermis floating around on the market (based on Analyst report) it wouldn't even be competition anyways.

 

[alcoholbob]

LOL at newegg, they have the longest list of contingent return/exchange policies I've ever seen. It's so convoluted that some of their policies are contradictory, and customer service will default on the worst possible...

I bought bulk around 5k of parts for a new comp, and several parts were defective...customer service wouldn't even let me the option of returning them, telling me to "contact the manufacturer" instead, and then ran in circles when I cited their own return policies! This is illegal from the U.S. Federal Reserve EFT laws. Thank god for credit card companies. Charged newegg back for several hundred and then they shut down my newegg account in return LOL...having trouble with following the law...funnier thing, Newegg rep emailed me telling me he was working on RMA, will credit me...then he stops responding to my emails mysteriously when I ask for an update.

They did this to me when I was 14, too, I built a new comp from them and they told me to contact the manufacturer for bad RAM when I asked for RMA...I sent it back anyway, they wouldn't credit my account; took the RAM and took my money too. I didn't know my rights back then so I chalked it up to a loss; my parents were immigrants and superstitious of the internet so they scolded me for buying online.

Sorry newegg, I'm a little older and know how to read laws and protect my rights...

I've spent probably 15K+ at newegg for years...Thanks guys.

whatever, Amazon is still #1; they pay return shipping and take things back with no drama or running me ragged...

you know what's funny, I read newegg testimonials about how great newegg is and how they went out of their way to help you...if you only knew...the stuff newegg "does" for you is minimal compliance to EFT laws...you think they are being nice to you when it's something they are LEGALLY BOUND or face chargeback fines...so many Americans don't know their rights.

 

[AzN]

That's exactly my point. I don't know, but since you don't know either you can't really make a statement like that. You are giving dollar amounts, but since you have no idea how many chips they have or how much it costs them your statement is baseless.

It's childish to compete if all you succeed in doing is hurting yourself as well.
As much as you'd like to think these companies are out to kill each other, the reality is they are more likely to collude to fix prices, screw over consumers, and make more money.
The only reason a company should lower prices is if it thinks it can make more money by selling more units at the lower price than it can at the original price. Competition only plays a part in this by changing the number of units that would sell at the lower price vs. the original price.

Obviously ATI has not made that decision, and from a business standpoint that's probably a good one. Even at current prices its cards are already cheaper than NV, and since there are less than 10,000 Fermis floating around on the market (based on Analyst report) it wouldn't even be competition anyways.

The fact is AMD launched Cypress chips at lower price than what it is now. Now that yields have improved for them they can easily drop another $50 from launch price and they still be good. If you lower your price you get more sales. AMD wouldn't be hurt by dropping prices. Nvidia in other hand will be losing more market share or they would have to follow suit which Fermi can't compete in this department due to size of the chip.

 

[Madcatatlas]

looking forward to seeing nVidias sales numbers for 470/80 parts, when we get to see those.

Untill then, i somehow doubt AMD/ATi is worried about the max 40k cards the competition has sold, so far, according to various sites.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Speak for yourself. Picked up a used 5850 for $250 shipped. I'm good till crysis 3 comes out.

 

[HumblePie]

The fact is AMD launched Cypress chips at lower price than what it is now. Now that yields have improved for them they can easily drop another $50 from launch price and they still be good. If you lower your price you get more sales. AMD wouldn't be hurt by dropping prices. Nvidia in other hand will be losing more market share or they would have to follow suit which Fermi can't compete in this department due to size of the chip.

The fact is, AMD/ATI never raised the MSRP price in the first place. It has remained the same since launch. The reason the price went up is because of etailers. The demand was so great, they started gouging. Because demand still remains high, the price still remains high. Even if AMD/ATI lowered the price and MSRP, I doubt retailer would follow suit. Why? Because the current prices are still selling very well due to high demand.

 

[ViRGE]

The fact is, AMD/ATI never raised the MSRP price in the first place. It has remained the same since launch. The reason the price went up is because of etailers. The demand was so great, they started gouging. Because demand still remains high, the price still remains high. Even if AMD/ATI lowered the price and MSRP, I doubt retailer would follow suit. Why? Because the current prices are still selling very well due to high demand.

AT says that AMD officially raised 5850 prices.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3587

After our latest round of price checks, we talked with AMD about the situation and asked them if there was any truth to the rumor of an official price hike. The news is not good: 5850 prices are officially going up. AMD is citing supply issues of components (including memory) amidst the heavy demand for the 5850, and ultimately deciding to pass the cost on to the consumer. Meanwhile there is no official price hike for the 5870, although it’s going to be affected by any increased component costs just as much as the 5850.

 

[darckhart]

lol. we were screwed ever since the ultra high end stopped being $300 and became $600. but we all decided we liked the super high end and gee one step or two steps down is only fractionally worse in performance but much more palatable at $300 than $600 and tada. here we are today.

 

[Friendo]

Defined screwed

[Removed for inappropriate lewdness]

-ViRGE

 

[Ranulf]

Ahh Tiger Direct, purveyors of geek porn since the 90s with their mailed catalogs. No retailer is perfect but I haven't trusted TD for over a decade and will likely never ever buy from them. If I see a hot deal posted by them, I move on.

On the video card front, I am now regretting not buying a 5850 back in Jan/Feb.

 

[Madcatatlas]

[Removed for inappropriate lewdness]

-ViRGE

lol!

+1

 

[3DVagabond]

Current pricing is purely supply and demand. Why lower the price when you are selling everyone you can make? All ATI would accomplish by reducing the price of 58** $50.00 is they'd make $50.00 less per card. Not going to happen unless ATI moves to Bizarro World. When ATI has some extra cards they aren't selling they'll drop the price.

 

[Lonyo]

AT says that AMD officially raised 5850 prices.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3587

But the raised official prices are still (slightly) lower than typical current street prices.

 

[MrK6]

Current pricing is purely supply and demand. Why lower the price when you are selling everyone you can make? All ATI would accomplish by reducing the price of 58** $50.00 is they'd make $50.00 less per card. Not going to happen unless ATI moves to Bizarro World. When ATI has some extra cards they aren't selling they'll drop the price.

Exactly. This is rudimentary economics - lack of competition coupled with limited supply and a great demand will drive prices up. Be glad they aren't any higher.

 

[Dark4ng3l]

Well in the mid range I can tell you that 5770 prices have fallen dangerously close to 5750 prices. At this point the cheapest 5750 is about 20$ cheaper than the cheapest 5770 since 5750 prices have not been falling in the last 2 months or so.

5830 prices have also been going down pretty quickly in the last couple of weeks.

The problem here is that nvidia had no volume to compete and their higher price points essentially fit right into the current prices on the market. In the high end there really is no reason for prices to go down significantly right now. Though based on 5750 and 5770 prices and stock you can extrapolate that yields are getting better on juniper at least and if you apply that to cypress cards you would expect the 5830 to start being phased out and the 5850 to drop close to the 250$ price point.

Of course this can only happen if ATI has enough supply to try and gain market share. If they sell everything they can make right there there is no incentive to give up an extra 40$ per card for no reason.

 

[ronnn]

[Removed for inappropriate lewdness]

-ViRGE

I was tempted also. lol

 

[bryanW1995]

So we all assumed with the release of Fermi GPU prices might drop back to reality a little bit... hasn't happened. They've either stayted the same or actually increased over the past several weeks.

So if competition can't even bring prices down, are just totally screwed for good? What hope is there on the horizon that prices will ever fall from where they are now?

Not true, I actually predicted several times that gpu prices would go up just like they did when 2900xt came out and disappointed. We will probably have to wait a long time for ultra-low video card prices we have gotten used to for the past few years.

 

[Hauk]

One thing I found surprising were the few reference 5850/5870s that came available after Fermi launch. They went scarce just prior to..

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-302-_-Product

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-301-_-Product

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-443-_-Product

 

[bryanW1995]

Well in the mid range I can tell you that 5770 prices have fallen dangerously close to 5750 prices. At this point the cheapest 5750 is about 20$ cheaper than the cheapest 5770 since 5750 prices have not been falling in the last 2 months or so.

5830 prices have also been going down pretty quickly in the last couple of weeks.

The problem here is that nvidia had no volume to compete and their higher price points essentially fit right into the current prices on the market. In the high end there really is no reason for prices to go down significantly right now. Though based on 5750 and 5770 prices and stock you can extrapolate that yields are getting better on juniper at least and if you apply that to cypress cards you would expect the 5830 to start being phased out and the 5850 to drop close to the 250$ price point.

Of course this can only happen if ATI has enough supply to try and gain market share. If they sell everything they can make right there there is no incentive to give up an extra 40$ per card for no reason.

why would they "phase out" the 5830? That would leave amd with a huge hole between the 5850 and 5770...you know, the hole that 5830 was designed to fill?

 

[bamacre]

Screwed? No. Just go with a mid-range card. Most people don't need anything more powerful than an HD 5770.

 

[blanketyblank]

why would they "phase out" the 5830? That would leave amd with a huge hole between the 5850 and 5770...you know, the hole that 5830 was designed to fill?

They would phase out the 5830 because it uses the same chip in the 5870 and 5850 which sell for higher prices. They sell it now because there are enough chips that can't be used for 5850 spec, but if the process gets better and all chips are either 5870s or 5850s it would be better to drop 5830s.
Of course if there was competition from NV it may be better for them to just cripple 5850 chips so they can still compete in that price segment.