GPU prices have gone.... up? Are we screwed from here on out?

[RaistlinZ]

So we all assumed with the release of Fermi GPU prices might drop back to reality a little bit... hasn't happened. They've either stayted the same or actually increased over the past several weeks.

So if competition can't even bring prices down, are just totally screwed for good? What hope is there on the horizon that prices will ever fall from where they are now?

 

[Genx87]

Defined screwed

 

[Xarick]

only the 5850 has increased. The rest have stayed. That is due to the 470 being only mildly faster in a few games, but requiring more heat. Thus making the 5850 more desirable.

 

[digitaldurandal]

There is always a next generation. When the 6xxx series releases, the 5xxx series prices will drop. Nvidia is a large company, and they have not made the best decisions for their shareholders short term, but I believe their goals are long term.

There is still a lot of hope for the architecture they created, but not with the current yields. We need to see TSMC transition to 28nm (supposedly) and have better luck with their process.

If TSMC has as many issues at 28nm as they have at 40, consumers who want the latest technology may find themselves paying a premium.

On the other hand, there are good deals on hardware around right now too - just not on the biggest and baddest chips.

 

[HumblePie]

Yah, I was really hoping by now that the 5870 would be sub $300 as this was the time I planned on buying it. I didn't go for the initial rush when they were at the MSRP of $350. I did at least use bing cashback with a purchase through Tigerdirect to pick up two for $360 each at least. So not too bad for prices today.

But seriously, I would have rather liked to have sub $300 for the cards. Oh well, these are only the second highest purchased video cards purchases I've done at least. The highest was my Voodoo 2 obsidian card back in the day. $400 and I was called crazy back in 1998 for doing that.

 

[zagood]

We've just been spoiled. Back to reality.

 

[apoppin]

So we all assumed with the release of Fermi GPU prices might drop back to reality a little bit... hasn't happened. They've either stayted the same or actually increased over the past several weeks.

So if competition can't even bring prices down, are just totally screwed for good? What hope is there on the horizon that prices will ever fall from where they are now?

Well, you need to realize that both Nvidia and AMD's partners are sick to death of cutting their profits for us. Nvidia and AMD are using a different strategy this time

Nvidia brought their GTX 470 and 480 to market so that they do not compete with HD 5870 and 5850 on price NOR performance - they sit in their respective slots so they do NOT compete

AMD very wisely brought out their highly overclocked HD 5870s at $500 too compete with GTX 480 at $500 - so there is no price war

The real price war may begin when AMD releases their refresh or New architecture
- unless they both decide to continue to price their products so they do not compete directly with each other

 

[Ares202]

AMD very wisely brought out their highly overclocked HD 5870s at $500 too compete with GTX 480 at $500 - so there is no price war

AMD didnt their board partners decided they could sell the 5870 at that price range and so built a part for the $500 market

 

[AzN]

AMD could easily drop the prices and pressure Nvidia but they aren't having none of it.

 

[apoppin]

AMD didnt their board partners decided they could sell the 5870 at that price range and so built a part for the $500 market

What do you mean, "AMD didn't" ?

Sure they did. AMD Graphics blessed their partners with a very mature 5870 process and *encouraged* them to do so. i know this for a fact.

Which, btw, was a particularly smart move. AMD's partners do not have to discount anything; they only compete amongst themselves in their respective price ranges on features and warranty. .... on the same token, neither does Nvidia's partners have to discount their GTX 470s and 480s (even when quantity is good; they will compete against other partners).

Hence, no price war.

 

[v8envy]

No price war simply because the high end 40nm parts are and will remain in limited supply. You can bet there would be a price war if TSMC could deliver as many parts as both companies thought they could sell.

Look at the 5770. No supply problems with the low end part. Ever since day 1 you could order 10 if you wanted them. And so it drifted down to below the original MSRP. Even though there is absolutely zero competition -- it's the ONLY card to consider between $150 and $300 now that the 4890 and G200 stocks have dried up.

 

[yh125d]

You gotta fight! NA NA


For your right! NA NA

To buuuuuuuuuuuuuuy stuffreallycheap!


I am disappoint at current pricing. 5850s 20% higher than at launch >.>

 

[HumblePie]

No price war simply because the high end 40nm parts are and will remain in limited supply. You can bet there would be a price war if TSMC could deliver as many parts as both companies thought they could sell.

Look at the 5770. No supply problems with the low end part. Ever since day 1 you could order 10 if you wanted them. And so it drifted down to below the original MSRP. Even though there is absolutely zero competition -- it's the ONLY card to consider between $150 and $300 now that the 4890 and G200 stocks have dried up.

Err, $300? You can get a 5850 for under $300 still.

I would say between $100 and $200 budget. Mainly because I've seen a few 5770 deals for as cheap as $100.

 

[AzN]

No price war simply because the high end 40nm parts are and will remain in limited supply. You can bet there would be a price war if TSMC could deliver as many parts as both companies thought they could sell.

Look at the 5770. No supply problems with the low end part. Ever since day 1 you could order 10 if you wanted them. And so it drifted down to below the original MSRP. Even though there is absolutely zero competition -- it's the ONLY card to consider between $150 and $300 now that the 4890 and G200 stocks have dried up.

There's plenty high end AMD cards though. Not sure about Nvidia.

If AMD dropped another hundred it would hurt nvidia pretty bad. AMD would still profit while Nvidia pretty much be earning pennies.

 

[LoneNinja]

There's plenty high end AMD cards though. Not sure about Nvidia.

If AMD dropped another hundred it would hurt nvidia pretty bad. AMD would still profit while Nvidia pretty much be earning pennies.

Yeah, AMD could drop prices, but there is no reason to. They're here to make money, as long as demand for their cards remains, they probably won't drop prices.

 

[AzN]

Yeah, AMD could drop prices, but there is no reason to. They're here to make money, as long as demand for their cards remains, they probably won't drop prices.

That's the thing they can drop another $100 and still make big profit and hurt Nvidia. Remember original launch price was actually lower than what it is now and they weren't hurting on profits either. 300mm chips shouldn't be more than $200-$250 this late into production of Cypress.

 

[Madcatatlas]

Since these cards also came at the introduction of Dx11, i think they will stay in production for a long time. Prices will fall naturally, with time.
Even after the next series is introduced, they will still produce these, unless yields on that series are much better than the 5xxx series, in which case, id understand them dropping the 5xxx series.

 

[v8envy]

That's the thing they can drop another $100 and still make big profit and hurt Nvidia. Remember original launch price was actually lower than what it is now and they weren't hurting on profits either. 300mm chips shouldn't be more than $200-$250 this late into production of Cypress.

No, they could not. Simply because many 5850s are still selling above MSRP. Any price drop would simply be absorbed by etailers until supply exceeds demand.

Lowering prices on the 58xx would only increase demand, it would do NOTHING for supply.

Once TSMC gives ATI as many chips as they want to sell, sure -- they could probably price the 5850 at current 5770 levels and make a profit. And that might even make sense from a "hey look, we're outselling NV by a 100:1 margin in the midrange!" marketing standpoint.

But TSMC simply doesn't have the capacity to produce 100x as many 58xx than they do now, so higher prices and lower demand create a perfect balance from a company profitablity view. Sucks for us consumers though.

 

[RussianSensation]

We've just been spoiled. Back to reality.

Cost of manufacturing - NV wasn't able to produce cards that were cost effective to manufacture (530 mm^2 die, 384-bit memory bus vs. 256-bit, 1.2-1.5GBs of memory vs. 1GB). As a result, it was nearly impossible for them to undercut or even match ATI on pricing.

Not Enough Performance - NV wans't able to produce cards that were a lot faster than ATI's. If they had done so, ATI would have been forced to either lower prices or rearrange their product line (i.e., release a 5890 or position 5870 to compete against GTX470 while 5970 would have competed with GTX480). This would have resulted in lower prices for 5870/50s.

Limited Supply - Nv and ATI aren't able to produce enough cards due to TSMC issues with 40nm and low yields of NV due to the larger chip caused by its design. Limited supply resulted in higher prices for both brands.

Currently ATI has little incentive to lower prices considering their cards already cost less and aren't much slower. NV cannot lower their prices since they produced very expensive videocards (from a component perspective and chip size) and their yields are low.

 

[AzN]

No, they could not. Simply because many 5850s are still selling above MSRP. Any price drop would simply be absorbed by etailers until supply exceeds demand.

Lowering prices on the 58xx would only increase demand, it would do NOTHING for supply.

Once TSMC gives ATI as many chips as they want to sell, sure -- they could probably price the 5850 at current 5770 levels and make a profit. And that might even make sense from a "hey look, we're outselling NV by a 100:1 margin in the midrange!" marketing standpoint.

But TSMC simply doesn't have the capacity to produce 100x as many 58xx than they do now, so higher prices and lower demand create a perfect balance from a company profitablity view. Sucks for us consumers though.

You know AMD supply situation currently? Source?

There's plenty 5850 and 5870 everywhere. Far as I know Cypress has a yield of 60-80% and those numbers were 4 months ago.

If you drop the price by $100 you need to produce 100x as many cards or are you just exaggerating or making wild assumptions?

 

[v8envy]

Where did you get 60-80% *on 58xx* SKUs from? Including the lowest end parts in the Evergreen lineup I could see 60%, possibly. 80% on the 5870? I call BS down from the skies on that.

And I already explained why I know there's a supply issue. Sure, digging around for an OEM card with a 90 day warranty and bing cash back at one of the worst etailers gave you the original launch price MSRP -- until that one card sold out. Fact is, average *STREET* price on a 5850 is still $50 over the original MSRP.

That situation can never be caused by supply being greater than demand, which leaves us the alternative. Which is exactly what you would have heard if you listened to ATI's recent investor conference call. They claim supplies will remain tight and they'll continue delivering product "hand to mouth" until later this year.

 

[AzN]

Where did you get 60-80% *on 58xx* SKUs from? Including the lowest end parts in the Evergreen lineup I could see 60%, possibly. 80% on the 5870? I call BS down from the skies on that.

And I already explained why I know there's a supply issue. Sure, digging around for an OEM card with a 90 day warranty and bing cash back at one of the worst etailers gave you the original launch price MSRP -- until that one card sold out. Fact is, average *STREET* price on a 5850 is still $50 over the original MSRP.

That situation can never be caused by supply being greater than demand, which leaves us the alternative. Which is exactly what you would have heard if you listened to ATI's recent investor conference call. They claim supplies will remain tight and they'll continue delivering product "hand to mouth" until later this year.

http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/17205/1/

Tiger Direct is worst etailor? You obviously never shopped there.

So selling limited supply of OEM 5850 with 3 month warranty for $230 after bing is call supply demand issue? Lot of people jumped because it was cheap probably trying to make a quick buck on ebay sure but there's plenty of retail 5850/5870 to go around the web.

 

[Madcatatlas]

the 5850 has, in Norway atleast, actually gone down in price. its now at the 2k NOK mark. 1 GBP is 9 NOK

Edit: scrap that, its more along the lines of 2300 NOK across the board. with some being even more expansive, like XFX (i dont get this, for ME, it seems like XFX is worse quality)

 

[ronnn]

It called inflation. Everything has gone up or the dollar is worth less - depends on your perspective.

 

[Meghan54]

Tiger Direct is worst etailor? You obviously never shopped there.

I have, and I tend to agree with v8envy's assessment. Their website is horrible, their rebate system is still the worst in the industry, and their physical stores, while well lit, have almost no sales help, are disorganized, dirty, and not at all pleasant to shop in.

Give me Amazon, Newegg for online or Fry's (despite how much I hate Fry's underhanded practices) or MicroCenter any day over any TD.