GPU for old Core2 system (don't laugh!)

[Erithan13]

I'm giving away my old gaming system to a friend as it may be ancient but it's still an upgrade compared to what he's having to use at the moment. It was built in mid 2008 with an E8500, 4GB RAM and a GTX260 (original, not the core216 version). Aside from HDD replacements and a SSD boot drive added in 2011 it kept going until earlier this year when the GPU gave out, luckily it had a 10 year warranty, unluckily this was from BFG Tech who are no longer with us so that didn't prove useful. I put in a R7 200 something or other as a stopgap until I was able to build my new system this week.

Anyway my friend is wanting to play older titles like Fallout 3 and Mass Effect which ran perfectly well on the old GTX260. Probably the most demanding title I ran was Far Cry 3 which was playable at 1080p with some lowered settings. I don't know how much longer the system might trundle on for given it's never been overclocked and hasn't shown any signs of problems yet. The current R7 card is really useless even for Fallout 3 though. I've spied used GTX260s going for £20 or so here which seems like a small price to pay to restore the system back to its former performance. Are there any more modern cards that would be worth looking at that won't be bottlenecked on the cpu?

I know the folly of throwing money at obsolete hardware but in this case I think it makes sense and we're not talking about a massive fortune. Used Q6600s are also available for very little so that might be something else to look at, although I wouldn't want to risk any sort of major overclock to bring them up to the single thread performance of the e8500.

 

[crisium]

Might as well get a used DX11 for compatibility.

Gtx 460/560/650Ti class should be cheap used.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Either buy a used as in the above post. Or you may find a 4GB GTX960 for 150$, unless these deals expired. This card can also be used in a future rebuild.

 

[Seba]

I had a Core 2 Duo E 8400 paired with a HD 4850. When I upgraded the graphics card to a GTX 660, I got a nice performance increase in games, but then when later changed the platform to a Core i5 4440 I noticed again some improvements in games.

So the GTX 660 was bottlenecked by that E8400. Based on this experience, I would recommend a GTX 750 Ti 2GB (which is slightly below GTX 660 level) as the optimum graphics card in your situation. Anything better than that is wasted with E8500.

 

[Gryz]

Don't be too afraid of being cpu-bound.

I had a e8500 and a gtx260, just like you. I upgraded the gtx260 to a gtx680 when the gtx680 was released (March 2012, iirc). It was a huge boost in fps. Definitely worth it. Yes, if you play at 200fps, the cpu will become a bottleneck. But nobody does that. If you enable a lot of eyecandy (better AA, more shadows, SSAO or HBAO, further viewdistance, more details, more foilage, etc), the framerate goes down a little, but the videocard can handle it. And the picture-quality goes up, but the CPU does not become a bottleneck as much.

A couple of months later in 2012 I upgraded my E8500 to a i5-3570K. Also a worthwile upgrade. Especially for cpu-heavy games. (I was playing Skyrim and WoW at the time). But still, even with just the E8500, a videocard of the power of a gtx680 is worth it.

Today the gtx960 is comparable with a gtx680. Get a 4GB version, and your friend is set for 2-3 more years at least. Maybe by then he can buy a new cpu (and mobo/ram). I would upgrade the 4GB ram to 8GB now. 4GB is really cramped for modern games. You might be lucky and find cheap 2nd hand RAM for the E8500.

 

[fourdegrees11]

Used q9300 for CPU upgrade? They go for under $25 on eBay. Gpu prices seem to be coming down right now, maybe an r9 270 for the best buy

 

[happy medium]

gtx 750ti if you can find one for about 80$

Here is a nice one for 90$.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...487118&cm_re=gtx_750ti-_-14-487-118-_-Product

 

[fourdegrees11]

This is easily a better deal

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131545&Tpk

 

[dogen1]

This is easily a better deal

[/QUOTE] Won't an AMD gpu exacerbate the CPU bottleneck?

 

[SPBHM]

fallout 3 and Mass Effect are not very demanding, you can get a good experience even with an 8800GT,

if you want to attempt playing newer games, it's worth upgrading the CPU.

if you are buying a new VGA, I would avoid going any lower than a GTX 750.

 

[boozzer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEWABNJi6Rc buy a used 280x. a used one is about 120$ on ebay or https://www.reddit.com/r/hardwareswap/

960 is basically trash.

 

[Seba]

Won't an AMD gpu exacerbate the CPU bottleneck?

It could, but difficult to say for sure, because most "reviewers" are testing with unlikely combinations (who pairs a GTX 750 Ti or a R9 270 with a i7 4790K in a real word PC ?).

960 is basically trash.

It may be trash for you, but it is overpowered for a Core 2 Duo E8500 (so it would be bottlenecked by that CPU).

 

[SPBHM]

It could, but difficult to say for sure, because most "reviewers" are testing with unlikely combinations (who pairs a GTX 750 Ti or a R9 270 with a i7 4790K in a real word PC ?).

Eurogamer DigitalFoundry tends to use an i3 4130 to test cheaper graphics cards, their testing appear to indicate a clear advantage for Nvidia when it comes to slower CPUs

apart from using a slow CPU they also customize graphics settings to get playable framerate and a decent (similar to consoles) experience, so they are far ahead the competition when it comes to low end hardware, while many others tend to test with unrealistic settings and CPUs.

 

[NTMBK]

It could, but difficult to say for sure, because most "reviewers" are testing with unlikely combinations (who pairs a GTX 750 Ti or a R9 270 with a i7 4790K in a real word PC ?).

Digital Foundry have done some good measurements, pairing midrange cards with i3s and Pentiums. They have consistently found that NVidia cards work better than AMD cards on low end CPUs, due to their lower driver overhead.

I'd recommend a 750ti or 960.

 

[Seba]

Since it does not sound that his friend plans to replace that Core 2 Duo (that he is just getting now from OP), a GTX 960 instead of a GTX 750 Ti would be wasted money.

 

[Gryz]

Since it does not sound that his friend plans to replace that Core 2 Duo (that he is just getting now from OP), a GTX 960 instead of a GTX 750 Ti would be wasted money.

Why ? Did you try it ?

I did. (Well, I used a gtx680, which has the same power as a gtx960). And it was definitely worth the money. The difference in price between a gtx750ti and a gtx960 isn't that big, but the fps is. So I would go for the gtx960 for sure.

Remember, the CPU becomes more a bottleneck at higher fps, and less a bottleneck at lower fps. Therefor, if you enable a lot of eyecandy (better AA, further viewdistance, more foilage, better shadows, SSAO/HBAO, high-res textures, etc), the CPU becomes less and less of a problem.

With a E8500 you might not be able to run 200 fps with low settings. You might reach only 80 fps because of the cpu-bottleneck. But with high or ultra settings, that E8500+gtx960 might well be able to do 50 fps. Definitely worth it if you like a nice-looking game.

 

[Seba]

I wrote in a previous post that I had a E8400 + GTX 660 (which is slightly better than a GTX 750 Ti) and the GTX 660 was bottlenecked by that CPU.

Remember, the CPU becomes more a bottleneck at higher fps, and less a bottleneck at lower fps. Therefor, if you enable a lot of eyecandy (better AA, further viewdistance, more foilage, better shadows, SSAO/HBAO, high-res textures, etc), the CPU becomes less and less of a problem.

You can not improve the CPU by getting a better graphics card.

 

[Baron Fel]

I wrote in a previous post that I had a E8400 + GTX 660 (which is slightly better than a GTX 750 Ti) and the GTX 660 was bottlenecked by that CPU.


You can not improve the CPU by getting a better graphics card.

Who cares that it is bottlenecked? GTX 660 will crap itself trying to run high settings at high res. New GPU will not. E8400 still does decently in most games.

 

[Spjut]

Who cares that it is bottlenecked? GTX 660 will crap itself trying to run high settings at high res. New GPU will not. E8400 still does decently in most games.

A better graphics card will be able to run games at higher settings and resolution, but the CPU will put a hard limit on performance.

Sadly for TC, the E8400 is next to hopeless for modern games and will limit the framerate to sub 30 FPS.

Even the Core 2 Quads are hard-pressed in recent games.

 

[Baron Fel]

OP I am pretty much in the same boat here with a Q6600 and GTX 285. You can get a Q9550 on ebay for $45. If you are comfortable getting your hands dirty a little bit, you can get equivalent $20 xeons that work in socket 775 with some modifications. I think I am going to try this after getting a new GPU it should be a fun project.

A better graphics card will be able to run games at higher settings and resolution, but the CPU will put a hard limit on performance.

Sadly for TC, the E8400 is next to hopeless for modern games and will limit the framerate to sub 30 FPS.

Even the Core 2 Quads are hard-pressed in recent games.

http://www.techspot.com/review/991-gta-5-pc-benchmarks/page6.html
http://www.techspot.com/review/1006-the-witcher-3-benchmarks/page5.html

45nm C2Q is similar to Phenom II which is getting near 60fps average in GTAV and over 60fps min in Witcher 3. It would be nice if it was higher but this is still quite decent.

E8400 being dual will have a tougher time but still be very playable I believe, especially with OC. Q6600 with OC is also ok.

And now consider the GPU situation. Anything that is not an R9 290/GTX 970 or better dies at max settings 1440p or even 1080p in some games.

 

[RussianSensation]

Who cares that it is bottlenecked? GTX 660 will crap itself trying to run high settings at high res. New GPU will not. E8400 still does decently in most games.

No, not even close. In some GPU limited games, you are right but in others, even pairing a $150 960 with an E8600 would be a waste. He also only has 4GB of RAM.

The best bet for any C2D system is to get a used GTX670/HD7950/7970 videocard for $80 and then start saving for a new platform + GPU upgrade in 2 years. You get the performance of a 950/960 level GPU for way less $. Spending $150+ on a card like a 960 to pair with a C2D is absolutely insane crazy. At that point you would have to discuss C2Q upgrade + getting more RAM + Hd7970 vs. a single 950/960.

Here are benchmarks with a GTX980.

And in older game engines that utilize just 2 cores, the old C2D/Q are horrible.

But with high or ultra settings, that E8500+gtx960 might well be able to do 50 fps. .

On older games, yes. On newer, demanding games, 30-35 fps. HD7970Ghz is faster than a GTX960. There is no reason at all to buy a $150+ videocard when his CPU is an anchor. Go with a used 7950/7970 as that's the best choice. You get 3GB of VRAM, performance easily on par with a 950/960 and can be found for $80-90 easy. Take the $ saved on not buying the 950/960 and start saving towards a new rig.

Look at FC3 @ 1080P. Not even 30 fps on a Core i3 530.

Eurogamer DigitalFoundry tends to use an i3 4130 to test cheaper graphics cards, their testing appear to indicate a clear advantage for Nvidia when it comes to slower CPUs

This doesn't apply to this situation at all. Firstly, C2D is so slow, that there is no advantage here to talk about since you are in 30-35 fps range in modern titles. The goal here should be to spend as less as possible. Secondly, every single NV GPU brand new is overpriced to the moon for his system. There will be no NV card option new that will be a better fit than a used 7950/7970. You would be just wasting $ here on a 950/960 level card. He is better off buying a used 670/7950/7970 and upgrading the CPU to a quad and OCing it. Such a setup would obliterate a C2D+GTX960.

Used Q6600s are also available for very little so that might be something else to look at, although I wouldn't want to risk any sort of major overclock to bring them up to the single thread performance of the e8500.

See what the prices of used 670/680/7950/7970 are. Those cards used should offer better value than any new AMD/NV card. As far as Q6600 goes, it's very easy to overclock them, esp. the G0 versions hit 3.2-3.5Ghz easy. It's one of the easiest CPUs to overclock.

With FC3, it would help to get a quad-core CPU if it's not too expensive.

With Mass Effect games, those are easy to run.

Based on the benchmarks I provided, you can look up used cards outside of HD7950/7970 and see what you find.

 

[Baron Fel]

It really depends on the game. I am surprised at how low C2Q performance is in Metro. This is a game that would take a highend GPU to get above 30fps at 1440p though so really not much performance would be left on the table. Similar story in Total War Attila, I got 25/30 fps average with maxed/low CPU dependent settings with a Q6600 @ 3.4. That is in line with what highend GPUs will get at max settings.

Q6600 still gets 30+fps average in most of your above benches (minus SC2), and that is at stock speeds. Not great but playable.

 

[Erithan13]

It's probably worth re-iterating what I'm trying to achieve here, I want to get the old system back to being able to run games of its era (eg mass effect, fallout 3, bioshock) while spending as little as possible. There's no need nor expectation of running any very modern games as I know how much that e8500 is holding everything back.

The secondhand gpu market in the UK seems to be far worse for bargain hunting than in the US unfortunately. To give you some idea here's the ebay prices for some of the cards mentioned (1£=1.5$ for comparison)

GTX260: £25
GTX460: £35
GTX660 £70
GTX670: £90
GTX960: £130

HD7950: £100
HD7970: £120

Q6600: ~£20
Q9550:~£30


If we had the money to be looking at the 960 or the 7950 it would make far more sense to save it toward a new system. As it is we're stuck with very little and are trying to make the most of it. Putting in another 260 seems like the best move to me as I know what we'll get with that at least. There is a decent aftermarket cooler installed so a Q6600 put to 3.2ghz also seems reasonable and keeps the total spend under £50. Beyond that point this strikes me as throwing good money after bad into an obsolete system.

I don't think the 4GB ram is going to be a problem given the games that will be running. It coped with the likes of Far Cry 3 and Bioshock infinite without problems plus there's an SSD to keep things snappy.

Thanks for your inputs.

 

[crisium]

At those prices I would get the cheap GTX 460 1GB and call it a day.

At stock it is faster than a 260 making it worth the few extra pounds:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/664?vs=542

And almost any will reach stock GTX 560 speeds if you are interested in overclocking. It's a newer architecture and is DX11 so you will have more compatibility even with games several years old now.

 

[Baron Fel]

Also check prices on the 5850/5870, these would fit in above the 460.