Gov't insurance would allow coverage for abortion

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: Pens1566
And when I think you couldn't get any lower ..... this ^ happens

Speaking out against murdering babies is 'lower' thing? Jumping Jesus Mary and Joe.. What is taking the forum HIGHER to you? WTF is wrong with this country when if you can't even say abortion isn't something which shouldn't be celebrated?

Harveys seemed to full of glee that abortions would be paid for he gave it a thumbs up and a big smile. Maybe he could write a song about how great abortions are? Maybe it could be put to a video of an actual one being done? That would be GREAT and would show how civilized of a country we are. Maybe an American flag waving in the background of the sucker tool? We could show it in schools and encourage people to have unwanted children so they too can be great Americans.

Is this REALLY the direction we should be going as a society? That abortion should be made as easy as possible, as cheap as possible (free?), and as common as possible?

 

[Pens1566]

Strawman more?

 

[theeedude]

Have to cover it or it would be rationing. Free abortions for everyone > rationing.

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Have to cover it or it would be rationing. Free abortions for everyone > rationing.

What makes you think that UHC would involve any less rationing that what we see with insurance providers today?

My guess is that rationing would get worse and worse each year as the costs of UHC skyrocket exponentially.

The goal, for some of us, is to get rid of rationing altogether.

 

[ZeGermans]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Pens1566
And when I think you couldn't get any lower ..... this ^ happens

Speaking out against murdering babies is 'lower' thing? Jumping Jesus Mary and Joe.. What is taking the forum HIGHER to you? WTF is wrong with this country when if you can't even say abortion isn't something which shouldn't be celebrated?

Harveys seemed to full of glee that abortions would be paid for he gave it a thumbs up and a big smile. Maybe he could write a song about how great abortions are? Maybe it could be put to a video of an actual one being done? That would be GREAT and would show how civilized of a country we are. Maybe an American flag waving in the background of the sucker tool? We could show it in schools and encourage people to have unwanted children so they too can be great Americans.

Is this REALLY the direction we should be going as a society? That abortion should be made as easy as possible, as cheap as possible (free?), and as common as possible?

Fetuses aren't people. They aren't babies. They aren't by definition alive. Just because they look like a baby doesn't mean shit if it has no viability outside the womb. Fetsuses don't deserve any protection at all until the third trimester.

 

[ZeGermans]

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan
My guess is that rationing would get worse and worse each year as the costs of UHC skyrocket exponentially.

yeah, this doesn't happen in any country that has UHC.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: ZeGermans

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Pens1566
And when I think you couldn't get any lower ..... this ^ happens

Speaking out against murdering babies is 'lower' thing? Jumping Jesus Mary and Joe.. What is taking the forum HIGHER to you? WTF is wrong with this country when if you can't even say abortion isn't something which shouldn't be celebrated?

Harveys seemed to full of glee that abortions would be paid for he gave it a thumbs up and a big smile. Maybe he could write a song about how great abortions are? Maybe it could be put to a video of an actual one being done? That would be GREAT and would show how civilized of a country we are. Maybe an American flag waving in the background of the sucker tool? We could show it in schools and encourage people to have unwanted children so they too can be great Americans.

Is this REALLY the direction we should be going as a society? That abortion should be made as easy as possible, as cheap as possible (free?), and as common as possible?

Fetuses aren't people. They aren't babies. They aren't by definition alive. Just because they look like a baby doesn't mean shit if it has no viability outside the womb. Fetsuses don't deserve any protection at all until the third trimester.

Did I SAY they were people? Thats an entirely different argument. I'm saying we shouldn't be CELEBRATING abortion as a great thing.. and we shouldn't be striving to make it as cheap, easy, and common as possible. Killing potential people is not a 'good' thing that we should celebrate.. it should be a last resort of a civilized people.

 

[Pens1566]

No one is celebrating it. Quit making shit up. Safe, rare, legal.

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: ZeGermans

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan
My guess is that rationing would get worse and worse each year as the costs of UHC skyrocket exponentially.

yeah, this doesn't happen in any country that has UHC.

what doesn't happen? are you being sarcastic?

1. Nearly every healthcare system in the world suffers from extensive rationing -- including both private industry and socialized solutions.

2. If you're referring to the skyrocketing costs aspect of my statement, please tell me what other country in history has attempted to implement UHC with more than 300 million recipients. Trust me, the costs of doing so, at least for the first few 5-10 years, are going to climb through the roof. One reaction to those costs will be the installment of extensive rationing measures.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: Fear No EvilDid I SAY they were people? Thats an entirely different argument. I'm saying we shouldn't be CELEBRATING abortion as a great thing.. and we shouldn't be striving to make it as cheap, easy, and common as possible. Killing potential people is not a 'good' thing that we should celebrate.. it should be a last resort of a civilized people.

But abortion is a wonderful thing for our society and we should celebrate its availability.

It frees up millions of people to pursue their lives without having to bear the burden of unwanted pregnancy and parenthood. It also helps to prevent population explosion and the ravages of Malthusian economic forces (higher prices for raw materials, more environmental degradation and pollution, less land per capita, etc.). It also decreases the amount of money the government needs to spend on public education, children's health care, child welfare, and later, potential criminal justice costs for the children of parents who don't pay into the system (over time) what their children would consume.

Thus, we need to make it inexpensive, safe, common, and easy to obtain for people, which is why I'm all in favor of government funding for abortion. It's a great investment that will pay for itself over time.

So, come join me in celebrating abortion, reason, rationality, clean air, clean water, lower population density, and prosperity.

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: Fear No EvilDid I SAY they were people? Thats an entirely different argument. I'm saying we shouldn't be CELEBRATING abortion as a great thing.. and we shouldn't be striving to make it as cheap, easy, and common as possible. Killing potential people is not a 'good' thing that we should celebrate.. it should be a last resort of a civilized people.

But abortion is a wonderful thing for our society and we should celebrate its availability.

It frees up millions of people to pursue their lives without having to bear the burden of unwanted pregnancy and parenthood. It also helps to prevent population explosion and the ravages of Malthusian economic forces (higher prices for raw materials, more environmental degradation and pollution, less land per capita, etc.). It also decreases the amount of money the government needs to spend on public education, children's health care, child welfare, and later, potential criminal justice costs for the children of parents who don't pay into the system (over time) what their children would consume.

Thus, we need to make it inexpensive, safe, common, and easy to obtain for people, which is why I'm all in favor of government funding for abortion. It's a great investment that will pay for itself over time.

So, come join me in celebrating abortion, reason, rationality, clean air, clean water, lower population density, and prosperity.

Right. So why shouldn't we be allowed to kill 1-year-olds if we change our minds?

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: ZeGermans

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Pens1566
And when I think you couldn't get any lower ..... this ^ happens

Speaking out against murdering babies is 'lower' thing? Jumping Jesus Mary and Joe.. What is taking the forum HIGHER to you? WTF is wrong with this country when if you can't even say abortion isn't something which shouldn't be celebrated?

Harveys seemed to full of glee that abortions would be paid for he gave it a thumbs up and a big smile. Maybe he could write a song about how great abortions are? Maybe it could be put to a video of an actual one being done? That would be GREAT and would show how civilized of a country we are. Maybe an American flag waving in the background of the sucker tool? We could show it in schools and encourage people to have unwanted children so they too can be great Americans.

Is this REALLY the direction we should be going as a society? That abortion should be made as easy as possible, as cheap as possible (free?), and as common as possible?

Fetuses aren't people. They aren't babies. They aren't by definition alive. Just because they look like a baby doesn't mean shit if it has no viability outside the womb. Fetsuses don't deserve any protection at all until the third trimester.

Why the third trimester?

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: Atreus21
Why the third trimester?

because thats when god gives them a soul duh. We have high speed cameras that film the soul being placed inside the fetus.

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: Atreus21
Why the third trimester?

because thats when god gives them a soul duh. We have high speed cameras that film the soul being placed inside the fetus.

Do you have a serious answer?

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: Atreus21
Why the third trimester?

because thats when god gives them a soul duh. We have high speed cameras that film the soul being placed inside the fetus.

Do you have a serious answer?

no

 

[miniMUNCH]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: eskimospy

*snip*

You get one screw-up if it is going to cause an elective procedure. For the next one, you either dont get the procedure, or the taxpayers make sure there is no chance for a third.

Ahhhh, so it's not forced. These people are merely being told 'raise a child for 18 years at the cost of roughly $200,000+ or become sterilized'.

That's much less creepy.

Don't men get told that exact same thing all the time?

"You had sex without birth control, too bad, now pay $200K over the next 18 years."

I :laugh:'ed and then :frown:'ed... because sadly, yes.

 

[miniMUNCH]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Exactly. The only people against this are trying to push their "moral" views on others.

Abortions are ALWAYS cheaper than kids for the system.

i like how an honest ethical conundrum ends up in quotes as if abortion is at the level of passing a kidney stone.

Is it that hard to keep your nose out of other peoples business?

If the government provides it (and we know that it is cheaper to not have a kid than to have a kid) it is a good financial move as well.

The same argument can be made for killing the elderly and infirm...

Just shooting a kid up with a lethal injection is cheaper than paying for their cancer treatment.

My point is we should NOT be debating this based upon the perceived financial benefit to the system and tax payer. Because once we ensconce ourselves in that mindset we are in danger of falling down a dangerous slippery slope.

 

[microbial]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: Atreus21
Why the third trimester?

because thats when god gives them a soul duh. We have high speed cameras that film the soul being placed inside the fetus.

Too bad we don't have any film documentation of the existence of a God(s).

Happy to report my vasectomy was fully covered by my health plan.

 

[kage69]

A fetus, an embryo, a senior citizen etc - Obama likes to kill stuff. Forget the birth certificate - we need proof he has a heart - or maybe a soul

Do you ever get tired of making yourself look like a worthless hack?

Hurry up and get banned, the forums could definitely use fewer of your kind here.



As for the OP subject, I am completely fine with abortion coverage being extended outside current restrictions, providing it's not late term abortion. There should be a window, say the first trimester, for this to happen. If later, then the old rules apply.

 

[ZeGermans]

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan
2. If you're referring to the skyrocketing costs aspect of my statement, please tell me what other country in history has attempted to implement UHC with more than 300 million recipients. Trust me, the costs of doing so, at least for the first few 5-10 years, are going to climb through the roof. One reaction to those costs will be the installment of extensive rationing measures.

...are you arguing that costs from healthcare and income don't equally scale with a larger population?

 

[ZeGermans]

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: ZeGermans

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Pens1566
And when I think you couldn't get any lower ..... this ^ happens

Speaking out against murdering babies is 'lower' thing? Jumping Jesus Mary and Joe.. What is taking the forum HIGHER to you? WTF is wrong with this country when if you can't even say abortion isn't something which shouldn't be celebrated?

Harveys seemed to full of glee that abortions would be paid for he gave it a thumbs up and a big smile. Maybe he could write a song about how great abortions are? Maybe it could be put to a video of an actual one being done? That would be GREAT and would show how civilized of a country we are. Maybe an American flag waving in the background of the sucker tool? We could show it in schools and encourage people to have unwanted children so they too can be great Americans.

Is this REALLY the direction we should be going as a society? That abortion should be made as easy as possible, as cheap as possible (free?), and as common as possible?

Fetuses aren't people. They aren't babies. They aren't by definition alive. Just because they look like a baby doesn't mean shit if it has no viability outside the womb. Fetsuses don't deserve any protection at all until the third trimester.

Why the third trimester?

Viability outside of a host is one of the definitions of life. In such a case it should only be allowed in instances involving the woman's life or death. And so help me if you give me the "health of the mother" mccain air quote I will smack you over the internet.

 

[shortylickens]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
if we're going to be paying for it anyway we might as well pay for it when it costs less than later.

yes, i'm a cold bastard.

The OP is the kind of person who doesnt give a shit about someone once they are out of the womb. He doesnt plan on spending a dime to help those people. He is perfectly happy with millions of Americans freezing to death in the streets or slaughtering each other to stay alive, just so long as he can't see it from his kitchen window.
I notice thats common among folks who have are so-called "pro life".

 

[miniMUNCH]

Originally posted by: kage69

A fetus, an embryo, a senior citizen etc - Obama likes to kill stuff. Forget the birth certificate - we need proof he has a heart - or maybe a soul

Do you ever get tired of making yourself look like a worthless hack?

Hurry up and get banned, the forums could definitely use fewer of your kind here.



As for the OP subject, I am completely fine with abortion coverage being extended outside current restrictions, providing it's not late term abortion. There should be a window, say the first trimester, for this to happen. If later, then the old rules apply.

Well if anything, as I understand it... late term abortions are the ones that, most typically, are actually medically necessary.

 

[miniMUNCH]

Originally posted by: ZeGermans

Fetuses aren't people. They aren't babies. They aren't by definition alive. Just because they look like a baby doesn't mean shit if it has no viability outside the womb. Fetsuses don't deserve any protection at all until the third trimester.

I would only like to point out that that is only your opinion.

In fact, newborns (hell, 3 year olds) can't survive without an incredible amount of help and support and human contact (in the instance of newborns). I remember reading an article that discussed the alarmingly high mortality rate of babies who experience no human contact.

A newborn can't defend itself, feed itself, provide for itself in any way... they are not viable by themselves after birth just like they were not viable by themselves in the womb.

Also, Kids are way harder to take care of outside the womb (after they are born) than inside the womb... every mother I know that I have talked to about this subject, including my wife (I have 2 kids) say taking care of a newborn is way more work than being pregnant.

All i'm saying is your concept of why babies aren't babies in the womb before a certain date doesn't really hold water.

 

[miniMUNCH]

Originally posted by: shortylickens

Originally posted by: ElFenix
if we're going to be paying for it anyway we might as well pay for it when it costs less than later.

yes, i'm a cold bastard.

The OP is the kind of person who doesnt give a shit about someone once they are out of the womb. He doesnt plan on spending a dime to help those people. He is perfectly happy with millions of Americans freezing to death in the streets or slaughtering each other to stay alive, just so long as he can't see it from his kitchen window.
I notice thats common among folks who have are so-called "pro life".

Not that I care about the OP in the least... but I'd like to congratulate you on your amazing straw man argument. Simply exquisite.