Government Welfare State: Creating Dependency

[jackstar7]

Sure, but voting for the hand that feeds you isn't exactly a big jump to make. Just because it isn't 100% causation doesn't mean you can ignore it either.

And again, if the opposition had more to offer as far as a plan goes to get people working and productive, I think they'd get somewhere. Instead they just bring classist "othering" and derision.

 

[jackstar7]

And that phrase continues to be used by butt-hurt liberals who don't like that reality continues to show their ideology is stupid.

The only reality that you demonstrate is that you do not have the capacity to argue the complexities of the situation and instead resort to sad taunts.

 

[nehalem256]

The only reality that you demonstrate is that you do not have the capacity to argue the complexities of the situation and instead resort to sad taunts.

Correllation continues to not equal causation.

Who is it that cannot argue the complexities of the situation and has to resort to sad taunts now?

 

[jackstar7]

Who is it that cannot argue the complexities of the situation and has to resort to sad taunts now?

It's a shame that you see a call to logic as a taunt.

 

[child of wonder]

And again, if the opposition had more to offer as far as a plan goes to get people working and productive, I think they'd get somewhere. Instead they just bring classist "othering" and derision.

I'd enjoy having a discussion about that very thing. Unfortunately, I don't think most in P&N are mature enough to not simply resort to "libruls bad!" and "no, repiglicans bad!"

 

[Double Trouble]

Personally I think it is completely wrongheaded to allow able-bodied people to remain on public assistance indefinitely. We have created cultures of seemingly permanent poverty among the very people these programs were intended to help.

In Minnesota, where I live, we have the greatest disparity in unemployment as between white people and black people in the United States. We are not a particularly racist state. I can only conclude that our historically generous social welfare programs are the principal reason for this.

I can think of nothing more humiliating and debilitating than giving people a poverty-level wage that lets generation after generation just keep its heads above water.

This exactly. We now have multiple generations that simply have not known anything other than receiving things without having to earn them.

I think a safety net is important (especially for children), but even more important is creating a viable path away from dependence. With all the best intentions of giving people "a helping hand", we've actually hurt those very people in the long run by not giving them handouts without focusing on opportunities to get out of the poverty trap.

It's not hard to see how over time that will build a sense of entitlement where the recipients of the handouts think everyone else is responsible for providing for them.

Calling for simply removing the safety net is as short-sighted as simply giving them handouts. You have to have a safety net AND a plan on how to get people to not need it anymore.

 

[cubby1223]

This exactly. We now have multiple generations that simply have not known anything other than receiving things without having to earn them.

I think a safety net is important (especially for children), but even more important is creating a viable path away from dependence. With all the best intentions of giving people "a helping hand", we've actually hurt those very people in the long run by not giving them handouts without focusing on opportunities to get out of the poverty trap.

It's not hard to see how over time that will build a sense of entitlement where the recipients of the handouts think everyone else is responsible for providing for them.

Calling for simply removing the safety net is as short-sighted as simply giving them handouts. You have to have a safety net AND a plan on how to get people to not need it anymore.

I still take issue with the way you worded everything. You seem to be laying blame on us, the productive members of society, for the actions of the leeches, that we have hurt them. No, they hurt us.

I am tired of having it be my responsibility to figure out not only how to build a successful life for myself, but also have to figure out how to motivate leeches to build successful lives while they contribute very little back.

 

[nehalem256]

I still take issue with the way you worded everything. You seem to be laying blame on us, the productive members of society, for the actions of the leeches, that we have hurt them. No, they hurt us.

I am tired of having it be my responsibility to figure out not only how to build a successful life for myself, but also have to figure out how to motivate leeches to build successful lives while they contribute very little back.

And do so in a manner that liberals approve of.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

And again, if the opposition had more to offer as far as a plan goes to get people working and productive, I think they'd get somewhere. Instead they just bring classist "othering" and derision.

You know what makes you get up? You know what makes you consider doing something with your life?

Taking a look at your money and saying "I don't have anything left for my Ribeye this month..." or "I don't know if I'm going to be able to pay rent or eat food in the next month, they started reducing my entitlements and said it will drop to 0 as long as I continue to be on it!"

Just like getting out in prison, maybe they can create a system where if you show up for volunteer, you are more likely to stay on the system to give you an extra chance to get a job as a grace. If you sit on your ass, don't apply, don't report, send in bullshit applications, etc... your bird feed will slowly start to drain, starting within monthly reductions in the amount until it reaches $0.

After that, sink or swim. This whole philisophy of caring for other people baffles me, as millions starve, die, and get murdered from here, to the middle east, to Africa. No, you don't make a damn difference. You turn a blind eye to what you don't see reported on the media every day. You are succuumbed to what the puppet master media wants you to see, think, and say.

 

[jackstar7]

Thanks for quoting me only to enjoy your own rant.

Have a great day!

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Thanks for quoting me only to enjoy your own rant.

Have a great day!

Thanks for proving you have no counter-argument to a valid debate point as to what you see as "necessary" :sneaky:

 

[Svnla]

I still take issue with the way you worded everything. You seem to be laying blame on us, the productive members of society, for the actions of the leeches, that we have hurt them. No, they hurt us.

I am tired of having it be my responsibility to figure out not only how to build a successful life for myself, but also have to figure out how to motivate leeches to build successful lives while they contribute very little back.

But but...but..but...you need to pay your "fair" share to help them.

For how long and how much is fair? How dare you even think to raise that kind question!!!

When I was in several developing countries in Asia, the work ethic over there was amazing. Don't work = no meals. No sitting around and getting fat as folks in the USA.

 

[nehalem256]

But but...but..but...you need to pay your "fair" share to help them.

For how long and how much is fair? How dare you even think to raise that kind question!!!

When I was in several developing countries in Asia, the work ethic over there was amazing. Don't work = no meals. No sitting around and getting fat as folks in the USA.

People in Asia also haven't had their families destroyed by half a century of liberal values.

 

[Howard]

I still take issue with the way you worded everything. You seem to be laying blame on us, the productive members of society, for the actions of the leeches, that we have hurt them. No, they hurt us.

I am tired of having it be my responsibility to figure out not only how to build a successful life for myself, but also have to figure out how to motivate leeches to build successful lives while they contribute very little back.

What about the resulting changes if the safety net is removed without any sort of transition? Did you consider that some people might riot?

 

[nehalem256]

What about the resulting changes if the safety net is removed without any sort of transition? Did you consider that some people might riot?

That is certainly an "interesting" way of putting things.

It seems like you are basically saying that welfare is basically the same as the Romans paying Barbarians not to sack their cities.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

What about the resulting changes if the safety net is removed without any sort of transition? Did you consider that some people might riot?

Thats funny, we talk repeatedly about "What will happen if we stop" - yet havent.

We talk repeatedly about "What will happen if we continue or increase" - and do it repeadly... yet I only see that percentage/amount on entitelements going up.

:hmm:

 

[jackstar7]

Thanks for proving you have no counter-argument to a valid debate point as to what you see as "necessary" :sneaky:

That's not what happened, but you go right ahead.

You tried to ascribe a motivation to me and then went on your strawman attack. I've got no inclination to counter you. You were never talking to me in the first place.

 

[Jhhnn]

This exactly. We now have multiple generations that simply have not known anything other than receiving things without having to earn them.

I think a safety net is important (especially for children), but even more important is creating a viable path away from dependence. With all the best intentions of giving people "a helping hand", we've actually hurt those very people in the long run by not giving them handouts without focusing on opportunities to get out of the poverty trap.

It's not hard to see how over time that will build a sense of entitlement where the recipients of the handouts think everyone else is responsible for providing for them.

Calling for simply removing the safety net is as short-sighted as simply giving them handouts. You have to have a safety net AND a plan on how to get people to not need it anymore.

So what we're seeing is a massive and dismal failure of our Capitalist system and the govt's necessary reaction to it, right?

We're also seeing that private enterprise has no humanist solution, either- no exit plan from their own creation.

 

[Howard]

That is certainly an "interesting" way of putting things.

It seems like you are basically saying that welfare is basically the same as the Romans paying Barbarians not to sack their cities.

At this point, perhaps. But the transition policy would be, if at all feasible, the interim payment for "protection", but with the aim that payments would eventually cease, with the barbarians eventually becoming civilized.

 

[Mursilis]

I still take issue with the way you worded everything. You seem to be laying blame on us, the productive members of society, for the actions of the leeches, that we have hurt them. No, they hurt us.

If you've supported politicians who've sought to continue or increase this sort of dependency, the blame should go on you.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

Amazing, 6 pages dedicated to confirmation bias.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epw9ZVO_-Cc

 

[OverVolt]

Amazing, 6 pages dedicated to confirmation bias.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epw9ZVO_-Cc

Oh please tell us science wizard, what is the way forward?

 

[Howard]

Thats funny, we talk repeatedly about "What will happen if we stop" - yet havent.

We talk repeatedly about "What will happen if we continue or increase" - and do it repeadly... yet I only see that percentage/amount on entitelements going up.

:hmm:

Sorry that you had to waste your time on this reply. Based on your post history, everything you say is null and void to me.