Government is a church of expanded morality.

[Moonbeam]

Human being are helpless alone. No millionaire that grew up in the Amazon jungle would be a millionaire. He would have a short life with some good friends and die. Civilization created government and the enlightenment created the American Religion, that a secular state could serve all people as no only religion can. Every religion is a tribe devoted to its members with outreach to gain reputation, but the government is the religion of all people, the social contract that takes in everybody. Government is democratic, not republican. Republicans believe that only people who contribute should be rewarded proportional to what the create, but democrats see that life is rigged, that some start out with advantages others don't have. They have created a religion where everybody should have an equal chance and that the moral function of government should be to bring up those with less chance and give them more chance to compete, to level the playing field, not maintain a status quo of privilege for those already ahead.

This is the sane morality of liberals who do not feel so worthless that leveling the playing field scares them or threatens their social status of success by making others successful too. Liberals see their advantage coming from what the government did for their forebearers and conservatives brag about how their families made it without help. Liberals feel they owe something for their wealth and conservatives that nobody but them should touch it.

That is what makes liberal government the better religion. It values moral judgments more fairly. No conservative raised in the jungle would amount to a hill of beans. The morality of conservatives is parasitic to suck the blood of society for personal gain, the morality of liberals is that cows that eat the grass give milk.

 

[Juror No. 8]

Moonbat Philosophy 101. Come in and have a seat.

If the urge to take a nap strikes you, feel free to do so, because you won't miss a thing.

ZZZzzz...

 

[DucatiMonster696]

I'm sure commissar Moonbeam will be there to ensure the purity of thought and the removal on counter-revolutionary forces which question and challenge his view on the "Morality of Government" if his wet-dream on government were to grow wings and take off.

 

[Greenman]

I've never been able to muster up enough of the "us versus them" mentality to achieve such a simplistic point of view. I also can't get behind the thinking that some people are inherently inferior. I'm a pretty conservative fellow though, so I don't view people by their social standing.

 

[Moonbeam]

I've never been able to muster up enough of the "us versus them" mentality to achieve such a simplistic point of view. I also can't get behind the thinking that some people are inherently inferior. I'm a pretty conservative fellow though, so I don't view people by their social standing.

All ow me to translate that for you:

I've never been able to muster up enough analytical skills to achieve a simple objective critique. I also can't admit that greater of lesser moralities can be assessed by their effectiveness. I'm a pretty conservative fellow though so I'm unwilling to admit that I judge people by their social standing as well as turning everything into us vs them.

Truth isn't a search for reality but a way to fortify ego. Show me something that makes me question my wrongs and I'll call it evil.

 

[Greenman]

All ow me to translate that for you:

I've never been able to muster up enough analytical skills to achieve a simple objective critique. I also can't admit that greater of lesser moralities can be assessed by their effectiveness. I'm a pretty conservative fellow though so I'm unwilling to admit that I judge people by their social standing as well as turning everything into us vs them.

Truth isn't a search for reality but a way to fortify ego. Show me something that makes me question my wrongs and I'll call it evil.

This is a great example moonie, you took my simple statements and tried to redefine them. Why do you need to vilify me? Why promote what we both know is a lie to try and prove a point that doesn't exist? This is simply foolish, it doesn't lend credence to an already outlandish theory. How can we have any sort of discussion if you won't be honest?

 

[spittledip]

Sometimes people think they are helping them but are, in actuality, hurting them. While the "conservatives" are generally guilty of trampling the less fortunate outright, the "liberals" tend to kill with "kindness". If you ever actually spent time with the "less fortunate" you might understand. Theories are great to hold onto b/c they allow us to indulge our fantasies for the sake of our own egos.

 

[Moonbeam]

Sometimes people think they are helping them but are, in actuality, hurting them. While the "conservatives" are generally guilty of trampling the less fortunate outright, the "liberals" tend to kill with "kindness". If you ever actually spent time with the "less fortunate" you might understand. Theories are great to hold onto b/c they allow us to indulge our fantasies for the sake of our own egos.

What I speak of here has little to do with welfare which must never be for free but with fostering equality of opportunity by enabling more folk to enter the playing field. A morality that thinks folk deserve their poverty isn't a morality.

 

[Moonbeam]

This is a great example moonie, you took my simple statements and tried to redefine them. Why do you need to vilify me? Why promote what we both know is a lie to try and prove a point that doesn't exist? This is simply foolish, it doesn't lend credence to an already outlandish theory. How can we have any sort of discussion if you won't be honest?

The discussion is about WHO is being honest. I am not dishonest because you say so.

 

[Agent11]

I'm uncomfortable with equating government with religion as an atheist.

Altruistic endeavors for the common good do not require religious connotations to be valid or worthwhile, and I think it actually cheapens civic service to associate the two.

Then again many people also struggle under the misapprehension that atheism is a religion. It is in fact the denial of theology and ultimately, acceptance of the lack of knowledge we struggle with as a species in respects to many philosophical and scientific quandaries.

 

[Moonbeam]

Agent11: I'm uncomfortable with equating government with religion as an atheist.

Altruistic endeavors for the common good do not require religious connotations to be valid or worthwhile, and I think it actually cheapens civic service to associate the two.

M: But why do you think so? And isn't it a belief that you have that endeavors for the common good do not require religious connotations? How could something you might suggest as a common good be anything but relative?

A: Then again many people also struggle under the misapprehension that atheism is a religion. It is in fact the denial of theology and ultimately, acceptance of the lack of knowledge we struggle with as a species in respects to many philosophical and scientific quandaries.

M: I agree but I am stating something I believe, not something I don't believe in. I believe that one can argue that government is a secular substitute for religion, a big tent religion you don't have to have a religion to join nor are you excluded if you are religious. It is founded, as religion is, on moral precepts, that all men are created equal, etc. I was making the case that the liberal government is concerned with that moral feeling of fairness that wants a level playing field, where the focus is on fairness of access to opportunity and that folk who don't do as well as others are not being punished by failure because they are evil as the scientific evidence indicates conservatives believe. This is really kind of the golden rule and compassion for those least among us, a slop over from Christianity, love without the fire and brimstone and contempt we see infecting religious belief.

 

[Agent11]

I would agree participation in the process of government and civic service can provide fulfillment and a sense of purpose, an outlet for bettering your community and helping your fellow man that might otherwise or also be expressed through volunteer work or charity with a church.

That doesn't mean you have to use the word religion to express the concept however.

And I get what you are driving at. Just don't like the wording. I'm big on the separation of church and state.

 

[rchiu]

Sorry man, morality, like religion has no place in government/constitution. Your liberal morality believes everyone should have equal chance, and the rich should be paying to get the less fortunate to get to a level playing field. But where does that morality ends?

Should the US paying for other countries' poor people? (yeah I know we are, somewhat) Should the US go to war to take out dictators who abuse people? Should the government help everyone who lost their job to find a new one, make sure everyone who needs transplant gets one, everyone who has cancer get the most expensive and dedicated treatment by the most experienced doctor?

I mean, whose morality are you going to base your government/constitution on? Who is going to decide which morality is the most suitable for this country?

Government should be lean and least intrusive. Government should not dictate believes, religion or morality. Government should ensure basic protection of rights and human survival. The rest should be up to you.

 

[Juror No. 8]

I mean, whose morality are you going to base your government/constitution on?

He won't answer honestly, but it will surely be the morality of someone like Joseph Stalin.

He's a collectivist, and all collectivist morality comes down to coercion, force, violence, and murder. They don't always admit or act on it, but that's what they are thinking.

 

[Texashiker]

Government is a church of expanded morality.

For one example, Texas prohibits the sale of hard liquor on sunday. Beer and wine sale are prohibited until noon on sunday.

If I want to get up sunday morning and get plastered with some jack and coke instead of going to church, so what? What right does the government have telling me I should be going to church instead of drinking?

Then there is the marriage issue with gays.

Back in the 1960s some states passed laws prohibiting interracial marriages. Those laws were later struck down.

 

[Moonbeam]

rchiu: Sorry man, morality, like religion has no place in government/constitution.

Your liberal morality believes everyone should have equal chance, and the rich should be paying to get the less fortunate to get to a level playing field. But where does that morality ends?

M: It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us that we here highly resolve that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

r: Should the US paying for other countries' poor people? (yeah I know we are, somewhat) Should the US go to war to take out dictators who abuse people? Should the government help everyone who lost their job to find a new one, make sure everyone who needs transplant gets one, everyone who has cancer get the most expensive and dedicated treatment by the most experienced doctor?

M: Should those who have much allow the poor of other countries to die and do nothing? Should we have allowed Qaddafi to kill his own people when his army was hunting them down? Should those without work be allowed to starve because there are no jobs for them? Should the sick be allowed to die because they have no money?

You think upside down. No man can be really happy so long as others suffer. You pretend that you are safe from the evil of this world. There is a Buddhist prayer, I vow to save every sentient being, and there are other words from elsewhere as well, and that the value of a man is in his aim. Aim high, my friend.

r: I mean, whose morality are you going to base your government/constitution on? Who is going to decide which morality is the most suitable for this country?

M: It has been decided and yours to keep or lose.

r: Government should be lean and least intrusive. Government should not dictate believes, religion or morality. Government should ensure basic protection of rights and human survival. The rest should be up to you.

M: Government is not me it's us.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Not you, WE

Even animals know when the game is rigged against them and they will turn their backs on the unjust and not play. The seeking of justice is innate in human beings and can never be expunged. The Will of God is born within us. The source and force of all government and religion has been the evolving experience of empathy and compassion, the emergence of God within us.

Your terror of the darkness has caused you to doubt the light.

 

[BoberFett]

Moonbeam is truly one of the most vile, hateful beings to cast a shadow on this forum.

 

[rchiu]

rchiu: Sorry man, morality, like religion has no place in government/constitution.

Your liberal morality believes everyone should have equal chance, and the rich should be paying to get the less fortunate to get to a level playing field. But where does that morality ends?

M: It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us that we here highly resolve that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

r: Should the US paying for other countries' poor people? (yeah I know we are, somewhat) Should the US go to war to take out dictators who abuse people? Should the government help everyone who lost their job to find a new one, make sure everyone who needs transplant gets one, everyone who has cancer get the most expensive and dedicated treatment by the most experienced doctor?

M: Should those who have much allow the poor of other countries to die and do nothing? Should we have allowed Qaddafi to kill his own people when his army was hunting them down? Should those without work be allowed to starve because there are no jobs for them? Should the sick be allowed to die because they have no money?

You think upside down. No man can be really happy so long as others suffer. You pretend that you are safe from the evil of this world. There is a Buddhist prayer, I vow to save every sentient being, and there are other words from elsewhere as well, and that the value of a man is in his aim. Aim high, my friend.

r: I mean, whose morality are you going to base your government/constitution on? Who is going to decide which morality is the most suitable for this country?

M: It has been decided and yours to keep or lose.

r: Government should be lean and least intrusive. Government should not dictate believes, religion or morality. Government should ensure basic protection of rights and human survival. The rest should be up to you.

M: Government is not me it's us.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Not you, WE

Even animals know when the game is rigged against them and they will turn their backs on the unjust and not play. The seeking of justice is innate in human beings and can never be expunged. The Will of God is born within us. The source and force of all government and religion has been the evolving experience of empathy and compassion, the emergence of God within us.

Your terror of the darkness has caused you to doubt the light.

lol, it's great you are so enlightened, by all means, spend your life and save the world and humanity. Just like those religious people are free to dedicate their life to the church and spread their faith. There is nothing wrong and no one is stopping you from doing what you think is right.

Just don't apply your morality or religion to those of us under the same government structure and ask everyone to think and act as you do. We all have different priorities. Doesn't mean your's is more righteous than mine, unless you are a narcissist who thinks your way is the only truth in this world and everyone must follow.

 

[Jaskalas]

Liberals feel they owe something for their wealth and conservatives that nobody but them should touch it.

Ah... Quite a blunt, if not honest, statement disavowing private property.

Human being are helpless alone.
...
government is the religion of all people, the social contract that takes in everybody.

A social contract to remove private property, does that remove privacy? Your contract requires slavery I think. After all, were slaves not given enough food and shelter to survive? The bare necessities were met. Seems to me we are simply returning to those good old days thanks to your wanton elimination of individual liberty.

Difficult to keep alive the founding American principles to guard against government when you drink government kool-aid. When you plot out an American utopia where our property belongs to you, where WE belong to you.

Create enough dependents and you may very well win the day. After all, they won't bite the hand that feeds them. You'll have their vote and, through them, a new American majority with enough clout to effect your changes. However, do not expect this to be a bloodless revolution. The rest of us still value our freedom and secession will happen.

You will let us cast off your slavery, or your hands will be stained red.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I disagree. What you speak of went back to a time when both sides had the interests of the nation at heart. Where it stands now is that the Right tells you to go to hell, and the Left paves the way with their good intentions born of hubris.

Neither side Sees.

 

[bfdd]

Government isn't religion, though many sure as fuck treat it that way.

 

[Jaskalas]

Government isn't religion, though many sure as fuck treat it that way.

If it is, then we can fight just as many wars over it. To force one view or the other.

 

[Moonbeam]

For one example, Texas prohibits the sale of hard liquor on sunday. Beer and wine sale are prohibited until noon on sunday.

If I want to get up sunday morning and get plastered with some jack and coke instead of going to church, so what? What right does the government have telling me I should be going to church instead of drinking?

Then there is the marriage issue with gays.

Back in the 1960s some states passed laws prohibiting interracial marriages. Those laws were later struck down.

These are all religious moral beliefs that derive from a particular religion. A state religion based on the notion that one religion can't be served above another would not allow such laws. Because a Christian or a Muslim might not want liqueur sales ever on on Sunday, folk who don't believe that shouldn't be forced to suffer nor should folk who want to sell be denied that right either. This is how a secular moral religion thinks. However, regardless of how fucked up people in Texas is and how far it has yet to evolve, the state government doesn't force you to go to church because of the Constitution, the secular religion Bible of the United States.

The gay issue is a work in too progress. The secular mind is not automatically freed from religious bigotry just because it claims to be secular. Hypocrites are everywhere. But as with everything else, the true soul and conscience of America is winning and gays will get the right to marry because of the overpowering truth of liberal fairness of opportunity. Slowly but surely new folk are replacing the bigots who see their bigotry as disgusting, not gays.

 

[nehalem256]

A social contract to remove private property, does that remove privacy? Your contract requires slavery I think. After all, were slaves not given enough food and shelter to survive? The bare necessities were met. Seems to me we are simply returning to those good old days thanks to your wanton elimination of individual liberty.

Liberals don't believe in a social contract though. A contract implies obligations to both parties. Liberals think that only certain people have obligations.

It is really more accurate to say that liberals believe in social slavery. As you pointed out.

 

[nehalem256]

The gay issue is a work in too progress. The secular mind is not automatically freed from religious bigotry just because it claims to be secular. Hypocrites are everywhere. But as with everything else, the true soul and conscience of America is winning and gays will get the right to marry because of the overpowering truth of liberal fairness of opportunity. Slowly but surely new folk are replacing the bigots who see their bigotry as disgusting, not gays.

You are completely wrong here.

Japan and China were never dominated by the Christian moral teachings you seem to hate so much, and yet ***GASP***. Neither of these countries has gay marriage.

HOW IS SUCH A THING POSSIBLE!?!?!?!