Gov. Walker and WI's master plan

[Jadow]

A sharper person would have noticed the whole Masters degree in there. Plus the amount of experience the person has. But hey, can't expect much from anti-union people.

Looking through the list, there a lot of people who aren't making 66k/yr, or anywhere close.

It begs the question though, do we NEED so many teachers with masters degrees. Is the added cost per teach of the masters proportional to the added value they give in the classroom? I say NO WAY!

 

[Gunslinger08]

Wow, I wish my wife made $100k teaching.

I foresee even more of this in the future. Everybody thinks the necessary cuts can come from "somewhere else" or "waste" or "earmarks." The problem is that deficits are so large from years of unchecked growth of entitlements and raiding surpluses and reserves. Ridiculous benefits and pensions just aren't sustainable with a shrinking population. To fix this before it sinks state and local governments, entitlements and benefits are going to need to be cut and taxes will need to be raised to pay off debt. Unfortunately everybody has the mentality that somebody else can bear the burden.

 

[Exterous]

It begs the question though, do we NEED so many teachers with masters degrees. Is the added cost per teach of the masters proportional to the added value they give in the classroom? I say NO WAY!

Then you need to address the laws that require teachers to take continuing education courses. It's pretty easy to get a Master's degree with the credit hour requirements to keep your teaching license

 

[theeedude]

Why do we require our doctors to have doctorate degrees?

 

[sportage]

This could backfire on Obama big time. As usual, he is playing both sides of the fence, as to not take a stand and not offend any one side. If Obama doesn’t stand 100% with the unions on this one, his chances in 2012 will be null. And democrats will demand another democrat challenge him. It will be interesting to watch Hillary, Biden and other democrat leaders as this plays out in WI. As bad as this seems for republicans in WI, this could be their golden egg when it comes to winning the white house in 2012. A divided democratic party is all it would take. If Obama flip flips around (as he does so well) on the WI unions issue, he’s as good as gone.

 

[wirednuts]

This could backfire on Obama big time. As usual, he is playing both sides of the fence, as to not take a stand and not offend any one side. If Obama doesn’t stand 100% with the unions on this one, his chances in 2012 will be null. And democrats will demand another democrat challenge him. It will be interesting to watch Hillary, Biden and other democrat leaders as this plays out in WI. As bad as this seems for republicans in WI, this could be their golden egg when it comes to winning the white house in 2012. A divided democratic party is all it would take. If Obama flip flips around (as he does so well) on the WI unions issue, he’s as good as gone.

i agree. it worries me that he is so neutral on everything. he is too smart to not have his own opinions.

i wish obama would just snap and go 'black' on america. tell us what the truth is. tell us that republicans are nothing more then pawns for a corporate national agenda to basically turn the middle class into slaves. THAT would win him the next presidency, and it might actually turn this god-damned economy around through trickle-UP economics. because remember, the corporations have plenty of money. the poor still have their government subsidies. its the middle class that is really fucked.

 

[Paul98]

It begs the question though, do we NEED so many teachers with masters degrees. Is the added cost per teach of the masters proportional to the added value they give in the classroom? I say NO WAY!

hahahahahaha

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Yeee Haw! Tis the season for protest!

We couldn't let the Arab world have all the fun 🙂

God bless all the repressed Americans fighting for rights and dignity!


We the people of WI have spoken 🙂

 

[wirednuts]

and tomorrow WI will speak louder. historic protest numbers expected this weekend. the dems can hold out as long as they want. republicans arent going to back down either. interesting to say the least.

 

[spidey07]

Yeee Haw! Tis the season for protest!

We couldn't let the Arab world have all the fun 🙂

God bless all the repressed Americans fighting for rights and dignity!


We the people of WI have spoken 🙂

See you tomorrow at noon. High noon.

 

[Jadow]

See you tomorrow at noon.

The silent majority will speak tomorrow. Sorry we couldn't join y'all during the work week, we had jobs and responsibilities to fulfill.

Come Saturday though, IT'S PARTY TIME!

 

[werepossum]

The liberals are starving children by closing the schools. Without the schools being open to give the kids their breakfast and lunch, the poor kids are going to starve.

Bunch of cruel heartless bastards. Is no group beyond being a pawn in their high stakes games?

😀 Freakin' great point! Who cares if these kids eat, they're trying to make me pay for my own health insurance and retirement! Well - a small part anyway. But I deserve to have ALL my health insurance and retirement paid by others! I'm working almost forty weeks a year!

 

[werepossum]

Anyone here talking about education should watch "Waiting for Superman" immediately.

We need to eliminate the "blob" that soaks up most of the money between tax payers and students. We need to compensate teachers more. But their performance needs to be tested on a yearly basis. If their kids don't learn and don't pass, they get fired. Very simple.

True, and . . .

Well the only way to fairly test the ability of a teacher is to survey how the asian kids in their classes do because it seems the asian kids are the only ones whose parents are actually doing their parts in the process of their childrens education.

Counterpoint. Accountability (meaning consequences of, well, consequence rather than a frowney face rather than a smiley face) are absolutely essential. But as one teacher said, "These kids come in not knowing how to read, and I'm going to be graded on how well I teach them chemistry?" Not an easy problem.

This situation however is an easy problem. Public employees should never get a better deal that those who pay their taxes. If a state's taxpayers average a 50% max pension contribution up to 4% of their salary, that should be the cap on the public sector. If a state's taxpayers average paying 25% of the health insurance costs, that should be the cap on the public sector.

 

[werepossum]

http://pareonline.net/getvn.asp?v=10&n=9

You know, I would waste my time to look back through my history to find the page that I found those statistics on, but the last part of your statement "will help us understand where you're coming from" implies that you feel there is some bias in the source.

I'm questioning your logical reasoning skills. There's bias in determining which states have teachers unions? Google it yourself and decide which source you want to use. If I recall correctly, Louisianna may have one district with a union; can we count the rest of the state though?

Or are you implying that there a bias in averaging the rankings of the NAEP test scores? Here are the scores - average them yourself.
http://www.lrc.ky.gov/lrcpubs/RR345.pdf

It's not opinion, it's not biased. It's simple, easy to look it up yourself fact.

Very interesting facts, thanks. Seems that while California is doing fairly well by its college-bound students, it's doing pretty horribly overall, especially considering the money it spends. It also shows how statistics can be gamed. My native Tennessee (not exactly a bright spot in education) does extremely well on the SAT test - because state schools require the ACT. California similarly does much better on the ACT (low participation) than on the SAT (high participation.) If you look at SAT scores versus dollars spent, Tennessee's educators would look like freakin's geniuses.

I did not know though that California scored so badly on education results. It's also very illustrative that although Dr. Pizza's link is entitled "A compendium of state education ratings", it's far more concerned with teachers' salaries and overall funding than the actual results, which are quite far back in the report. It's arguably even concerned more with student racial makeup than the actual results.

 

[Red Dawn]

True, and . . .

Counterpoint. Accountability (meaning consequences of, well, consequence rather than a frowney face rather than a smiley face) are absolutely essential. But as one teacher said, "These kids come in not knowing how to read, and I'm going to be graded on how well I teach them chemistry?" Not an easy problem.

This situation however is an easy problem. Public employees should never get a better deal that those who pay their taxes. If a state's taxpayers average a 50% max pension contribution up to 4% of their salary, that should be the cap on the public sector. If a state's taxpayers average paying 25% of the health insurance costs, that should be the cap on the public sector.

OK, when contract time comes up the the State put it on the table and insist on it, it the Union doesn't agree to it then fire them all and hire non Union teachers. Trying to take away their right to collective bargaining isn't the way to go about it. And if other unions refuse to cross the Union Teachers picket lines replace them with non Union Workers

 

[dmcowen674]

OK, when contract time comes up the the State put it on the table and insist on it, it the Union doesn't agree to it then fire them all and hire non Union teachers. Trying to take away their right to collective bargaining isn't the way to go about it. And if other unions refuse to cross the Union Teachers picket lines replace them with non Union Workers

Seemed to have worked for Reagan with the Air Traffic Controllers.

Has there been a problem since?

 

[Red Dawn]

Seemed to have worked for Reagan with the Air Traffic Controllers.

Has there been a problem since?

How difficult would be to replace all those Union teachers? They might speak Hindi or Chinese but at least they'll work for pennies on the dollar.

 

[dmcowen674]

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmcowen674
Seemed to have worked for Reagan with the Air Traffic Controllers.

Has there been a problem since?

How difficult would be to replace all those Union teachers?

They might speak Hindi or Chinese but at least they'll work for pennies on the dollar.

Would not be difficult at all.

Wisconsin brought this upon themselves by putting Republicans 100% in control.

2-19-2011

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110219/ap_on_re_us/us_wisconsin_budget_unions

Wis. rallies renew history of political activism



Conservative are set to arrive by the busload to demand that the bill be passed.

Protests are organized by groups including the Tea Party Patriots, the movement's largest umbrella group, and Americans for Prosperity.

Sarah Palin weighed with a Friday night posting on her Facebook page that urged "union brothers and sisters" not to ask taxpayers to support "unsustainable benefits packages."


"Real solidarity means everyone being willing to sacrifice and carry our share of the burden,"



Palin said in her post, which did not indicate whether she would join conservatives in Madison this weekend.

Republicans took control of both the state Senate and Assembly in November

 

[Jhhnn]

This situation however is an easy problem. Public employees should never get a better deal that those who pay their taxes. If a state's taxpayers average a 50% max pension contribution up to 4% of their salary, that should be the cap on the public sector. If a state's taxpayers average paying 25% of the health insurance costs, that should be the cap on the public sector.

Heh. Public employees pay their taxes too. What you're suggesting is that the State should lead the Republican sponsored race to the bottom, rather than forcing the private sector to compete with them for the best employees.

Unlike some other states, Wisconsin's "budget crisis" is largely contrived, with Republicans wanting to hustle their proposals through before anybody realizes their duplicity.

http://markpocanwi.blogspot.com/2011/02/walkers-trojan-horse.html

Facts don't change what Righties believe, unfortunately.

 

[Vette73]

Wow, I wish my wife made $100k teaching.

I foresee even more of this in the future. Everybody thinks the necessary cuts can come from "somewhere else" or "waste" or "earmarks." The problem is that deficits are so large from years of unchecked growth of entitlements and raiding surpluses and reserves. Ridiculous benefits and pensions just aren't sustainable with a shrinking population. To fix this before it sinks state and local governments, entitlements and benefits are going to need to be cut and taxes will need to be raised to pay off debt. Unfortunately everybody has the mentality that somebody else can bear the burden.

I don;t think most are against cuts, they are against systematic single group cuts.
As this case shows the Gov did not make cuts to ALL unions only the ones that did not support him or give him money.
If this bill treated ALL the same then that would be the Gov making a hard decision. In this case its just a political biased bill.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Heh. Public employees pay their taxes too. What you're suggesting is that the State should lead the Republican sponsored race to the bottom, rather than forcing the private sector to compete with them for the best employees.

The difference being that taxpayers pay the salaries and benefits of these folks, of course. Lefties such as yourself continue to live in a fantasy world where money for public employees (salaries and benefits) and entitlements are limitless, because you think you can just tax the "rich" to pay for all of your pet projects.

If these guys don't like it, they can go find a private sector job with better benefits and salary. Good luck with that!

Unlike some other states, Wisconsin's "budget crisis" is largely contrived, with Republicans wanting to hustle their proposals through before anybody realizes their duplicity.

http://markpocanwi.blogspot.com/2011/02/walkers-trojan-horse.html

Wow! You quote the blog of a Democratic rep. Great, unbiased source there, but I have to admit, I'm not surprised. I'll remember that the next time you chastise a conservative member of the forum for quoting a blog.

Contrived? Interesting that last fall, the Legislative Fiscal Bureau (mentioned by your pal Mark Pocan as a "respected, unbiased " agency) estimated a $2.7 billion deficit that could be higher or lower depending on a few unknowns:

The next budget is expected to face a gap of about $2.7 billion. The shortfall estimate from the Legislative Fiscal Bureau doesn't include the expected growth in state tax revenues or the expected growth in state spending on existing programs because of inflation and other factors - that means the final deficit could be less or more.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/102748564.html

Facts don't change what Righties believe, unfortunately.

They seem to be objects to be twisted or distorted to fit the lefty agenda, unfortunately. You'll believe anything as long as it was written by someone with a D after their name.

I don;t think most are against cuts, they are against systematic single group cuts.
As this case shows the Gov did not make cuts to ALL unions only the ones that did not support him or give him money.
If this bill treated ALL the same then that would be the Gov making a hard decision. In this case its just a political biased bill.

I'd have to see the numbers to see if this accusation is true or not. If this particular union is the literal 800 lb gorilla in the room, of course it would make sense to trim there first. However, you're right that nothing should be off the table with respect to other unions as well.

 

[Red Dawn]

If this particular union is the literal 800 lb gorilla in the room, of course it would make sense to trim there first. However, you're right that nothing should be off the table with respect to other unions as well.

Fine put the cuts on the table when it's time to renegotiate their contract and insist on the cuts. No need to do away with their right for collective bargaining.

 

[feralkid]

It begs the question though, do we NEED so many teachers with masters degrees. Is the added cost per teach of the masters proportional to the added value they give in the classroom? I say NO WAY!

No it does not "beg the question", but perhaps a better teacher could have taught you what that phrase actually means.

:awe:

 

[FuzzyBee]

I don;t think most are against cuts, they are against cuts for themselves.

FTFY.

 

[FuzzyBee]

Fine put the cuts on the table when it's time to renegotiate their contract and insist on the cuts. No need to do away with their right for collective bargaining.

What good does "insisting on the cuts" do? None, especially when it's combined with collective bargaining.

BTW, there isn't a proposed cut to collective bargaining for salary.