Gov. Walker and WI's master plan

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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Personally, I find it disturbing that people with no real interest or stake in a local decision would be willing to attempt to influence the outcome.
Agreed, but for both the unions and the Tea Parties it's about more than the local Wisconsin decision. It's about the very fabric of American life in the future. Unions must stop the defeat of public employees' unions every time the issue is raised, because public employees are their only real future. The Tea Parties (to the extent that they have a unified vision of twenty-first century America) must defeat public employees' unions all across the country to realize their dream of smaller government.
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
I just want to add this comment...

It's quite amusing watching the cable "news" stations at night.

Turn on Hannity and the story is how conservatism has won the battle. Switch over to Maddow and the story is how progressivism has won the battle. And they each spin their stories, inject their "logic", and repeat polls declaring how "the people" feel.

It's kind of funny, because seems to me outside of the activist minority, no one cares. I most often pay attention to WGN news here in Chicago, right next to Wisconsin, the state where the Senators are hiding - this news station rarely ever get into partisan spin, and Wisconsin is barely even a blurb, people are more interested in their own state & city affairs, and more interested in trash-talking Charlie Sheen, than they are getting involved in the Wisconsin battle.

What struck me as especially odd was a Wis. Senator who ran away into hiding... accusing Walker of walking away from his responsibilities :p


The whole position of "the left" seems to be the same tired argument of "the rich aren't paying enough, that is the answer to all of our country's problems." Well, exactly how do you go about taking their money? It's a delicate balance. Can't control other people. And there are other governments more willing to not treat them as some evil force on society, as "the left" likes to do.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Agreed, but for both the unions and the Tea Parties it's about more than the local Wisconsin decision. It's about the very fabric of American life in the future. Unions must stop the defeat of public employees' unions every time the issue is raised, because public employees are their only real future. The Tea Parties (to the extent that they have a unified vision of twenty-first century America) must defeat public employees' unions all across the country to realize their dream of smaller government.

Tea Partiers want smaller government*

*A majority are against free trade
*Don't let the gubmint touch their Medicare
 

MrColin

Platinum Member
May 21, 2003
2,403
3
81
Sounds like a great idea. Glad he's stepping up to fix their problems. Teachers unions are the scum of the earth and a big reason for our failing public education system.

I'd be willing to bet union states have better education in terms of student performance than non-union states. I'll look into it and come back with some facts.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
I'd be willing to bet union states have better education in terms of student performance than non-union states. I'll look into it and come back with some facts.
Let's look at union states' student performance per dollar spent.

Yeah, that oughta be a hoot.
 
Oct 16, 1999
10,490
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comptr6

Senior member
Feb 22, 2011
246
0
0
Bring them in for treason. Prosecute and replace them. Elections have consequences.

Yes, except that the unions and their fluffers are enemies of America as well and all of them should be tried for treason not just these coward politicians.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,162
136
The unions are their prime source of campaign dollars. It's like taking away their cash cow.

Simplistic viewpoint. If you think union workers are mad as hell just because their union can't give campaign money, you’re really really awful really wow really mucho really out of touch. Really...
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,162
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Ps.. As the democrat senators stay away and have nothing to do with this WI governor's stunt(s), notice which of the two is in panic sweating mode...
Kinda like when your kid tried to pull a fast one, and over their shoulder is standing the parent.
Busted!
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Ps.. As the democrat senators stay away and have nothing to do with this WI governor's stunt(s), notice which of the two is in panic sweating mode...
Kinda like when your kid tried to pull a fast one, and over their shoulder is standing the parent.
Busted!

lol, so in your little fantasy world - running away isn't "panic sweating mode"? lol what a joke.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,802
4,892
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Yes, except that the unions and their fluffers are enemies of America as well and all of them should be tried for treason not just these coward politicians.


Now that the firefighter's union has joined the protesters, let's lock them up, right?

And the Police who have joined...I guess they should arrest themselves.


Hint: A true tea partier would see Walker for what he is: Big Government at its worst.

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CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Now that the firefighter's union has joined the protesters, let's lock them up, right?
A true tea partier would see Walker for what he is: Big Government at its worst.

No, big gov't at it's worst was what Wisconsin had before. Big give aways, massive over spending(raiding funds), etc.
Walker may not be perfect but he's a step up from Doyle.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,802
4,892
136
No, big gov't at it's worst was what Wisconsin had before. Big give aways, massive over spending(raiding funds), etc.
Walker may not be perfect but he's a step up from Doyle.




I see, Walker is big government at its worst since Doyle.
 

tk149

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2002
7,253
1
0
The Republican senators passed a resolution ordering the arrest of the missing Democrat senators.

http://www.journaltimes.com/news/local/state-and-regional/article_cc61d94a-4667-11e0-900d-001cc4c03286.html

The legality is in question.

Senate Republicans Thursday ordered the forcible detention of their 14 Democratic colleagues, who fled the state two weeks ago to avoid a vote on Gov. Scott Walker's controversial budget repair bill.

"They have pushed us to the edge of a constitutional crisis," Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald, R-Juneau, said of the boycotting senators.
But it remained unclear Thursday whether the resolution and warrants seeking to force the senators back to the Capitol are legal. The state constitution prohibits the arrest of legislators while in session unless they're suspected of committing felonies, treason or breach of the peace.

Democrats say the Republicans are overreaching, and they have consulted an attorney for an opinion on whether the GOP actions are legal.

"The Republicans have gone around the bend," said Sen. Chris Larson, D-Milwaukee. "They've just increased their bullying tactics and are producing an even greater divide in our state."

But James Troupis, an attorney for Fitzgerald, said rounding up the senators is legal under a constitutional provision that allows the Senate to enforce its own rules, including mandatory attendance. That section allows each house to "compel the attendance of absent members."

Troupis insisted the detention is not an arrest because the senators are not suspected of any crimes. Rather, he said, the resolution seeks to enforce a legislative process.
"The Legislature has its own powers - that's the principle here," he said. "The constitution is quite explicit in providing our Legislature with independent authority."
But the distinction between "arrest" and "detention" was lost on a pair of Madison attorneys who are active in Democratic politics who said the state constitution provides an absolute bar against legislators being arrested for non-criminal offenses.
In an open letter to the Senate, Madison attorneys Lester Pines and Susan Crawford said "none of the fourteen absent Senators has been charged with a crime. Nor has any crime occurred. The Wisconsin Senate has absolutely no authority to order any of its members arrested or taken into custody in order to compel their attendance."
Pines said he put out the legal analysis because he believes the legal advice the Senate has been given is wrong.

Meanwhile, the governor said he remains optimisic the Democrats will return soon.
"My hope is we can figure out a way to help the state senators come back on their own," Walker said.

Republicans voted unanimously Thursday morning to give the Democrats until 4 p.m. to appear before the Senate. The 14 Democrats are believed to be in Illinois. Because they failed to show up, the Senate found them "in contempt and disorderly behavior."
The Senate resolution authorizes the Senate sergeant at arms to use force and enlist the help of law enforcement to bring missing members to the Capitol - any time of the day or night.

Longtime Sen. Fred Risser, D-Madison, said it was "below the dignity of the state Senate to be spending its time passing such resolutions."

Thursday's move was made in concert with a lawsuit filed Tuesday by Oconto County Republican Party Chairman Kevin Barthel to compel Sen. Jim Holperin, D-Conover, to return to the Senate,
Barthel, who also was represented by Troupis, said in a statement that he filed the action as an individual resident of Holperin's Senate district.

"In my neck of the woods ... folks fortunate enough to have jobs do them every day following the rules of employment. If not, they quit or get fired," Barthel said.

Oconto County Circuit Court Judge Jay Conley ruled it was clear that Holperin was absent without leave from the Senate and violating a "positive and plain duty" of his position.
But Conley said only the Senate had the right to enforce the attendance rule.

Under the resolution adopted Thursday, the senators may only be taken into custody if they return to Wisconsin, Fitzgerald said. The resolution does not call for their extradition from another state. Starting Friday, the missing senators also will be subject to $100-a-day fines, part of a series of ever-harsher measures taken by Senate Republicans to force the Democrats back to Madison.

Some police - many of whom have marched alongside protesters against Walker's plan to effectively end collective bargaining for public workers - have already objected to the arrest resolution. Jim Palmer, head of the 11,000 member Wisconsin Professional Police Association, called it an "unreasonable abuse of police power."

I'm sure that Mr. Palmer personally reviewed both sides of the issue before making his statement.
 

tk149

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2002
7,253
1
0
Finally found numbers on average WI teacher compensation.

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/mar/04/rand-paul/us-sen-rand-paul-says-average-public-school-teache/

I'm not really interested in Rand Paul's comments, so I'll just post what I thought was most interesting.

The latest figures available are for 2009-2010, according to a state Department of Public Instruction spokesman. Public school teachers in Wisconsin earned an average of $49,093 in salary plus $25,750 in benefits for a total of $74,843.

That’s 16 percent less than the $89,000 claimed by Paul.

The $74,843 total compensation figure, of course, is a statewide average.

The figures vary across districts, according to tallies from the Department of Public Instruction. The average total compensation ranged from just over $55,000 in the Linn Joint 6 School District in Lake Geneva near the Wisconsin-Illinois border to just over $103,000 in the Nicolet district in suburban Milwaukee.

The median household income (in 2008) for Milwaukee County is $45,902, and for Wisconsin is $52,103 according to the census.
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/55/55079.html

Keep in mind that median household income is not the same as median individual income.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,306
53,872
136
The whole position of "the left" seems to be the same tired argument of "the rich aren't paying enough, that is the answer to all of our country's problems." Well, exactly how do you go about taking their money? It's a delicate balance. Can't control other people. And there are other governments more willing to not treat them as some evil force on society, as "the left" likes to do.

The actual position of 'the left' (if you could even say such a huge swath of people have a single position) is that the rich have been the overwhelming benefactors of the expansion of the US economy since 1980 or so, and so since they are getting most of the benefit, they should contribute more to the system that makes them so rich.

The idea that 'the left' treats rich people as an evil force on society is a ridiculous caricature. Also, can you tell me what governments these are that are going to treat our rich folks better? They almost certainly aren't first world governments, as the US tax rates on the wealthiest people are among the lowest (if not THE lowest) anywhere in the industrialized world. Do you think all the rich people are going to move to Zimbabwe or something?