Gov. Walker and WI's master plan

[Exterous]

But one of the worst pressures on government is the liability of pensions already promised, and they can't go back on those.

Yes, we have seen a lot of that too. My wife pays a flat 3% of her paycheck for the health insurance being provided to already retired government workers (it might just be teachers but I remember being severly pissed at the entire state so it was probably all state workers)

 

[tk149]

I'm surprised that Walker had the guts to do this. Pleasantly surprised. Government workers should realize that they are not immune to a recession.

I think that teachers have a right to go protest which requires them to take time off. However, going en masse and forcing schools to shut down just pisses off parents who then have to scramble to find babysitters or stay home themselves. If they actually cared about students and education, the teachers could have arranged for each school to send a representative sample without shutting down the schools. Guess education isn't their real priority.

 

[chucky2]

They should be able to mass protest anytime they want, just like any other unionized body. The district in question should just inform the union they won't be renewing any contracts with employees who clearly don't want to work.

Then the union folks will have all day, every day, to protest.

Win win for everyone.

Chuck

 

[PeshakJang]

The ability to bargain for your services in any way you wish should absolutely be a right. Why on earth should you be able to have individuals negotiate for their wages at a job, but prohibit groups of people from negotiating together? That's absolutely ridiculous.

Why on Earth should you be able to make political contributions as an individual, but prohibit groups of people (corporations) from contributing together?

Otherwise, would you agree that if you have the right to be in a union, that the employer (the state in this case), has the right to terminate you and replace you with somebody that doesn't want to be in a union? Why should the state be extorted by threats from a group acting against the financial interest of it?

Fire them all, and hire back the ones that don't want to be in a union. In today's market, the employer has the bargaining power, NOT the union.

 

[Generator]

More ideology...

We get it, your job at the Cracker Barrel pays 1/4 the rate of a government job. I suppose you can cry and tear down teachers, police, and firemen down your level in the swill and filth. But cuts do need to be made. You know what lets do it. Lets give all public jobs the Cracker Barrel wage and benefits. Lets have teachers punch in and out for 6 hours a day making minimum wage to teach your retarded children.

Its not that the public sector pay/benefited to well its that you've taken it up ass for so that you "gubament doesn't work" ideologues actually have sold out for pittance! Even illegal Mexicans have to ask where is your pride? Most of you clowns couldn't even afford to send your children to school if it wasn't for the measly taxes if any you put into the system. But thats the dream of the privatized ideologues world. Where your barefooted pregnant wife is homeschooling Timmy in the family bunker!

 

[Homerboy]

FYI his next move (supposedly) is to split UW-Madison from the UW system too.

http://www.wuwm.com/programs/news/view_news.php?articleid=7810

Either Walker is crazy, or he's got balls of steel (or both).

 

[shiner]

More ideology...

We get it, your job at the Cracker Barrel pays 1/4 the rate of a government job. I suppose you can cry and tear down teachers, police, and firemen down your level in the swill and filth. But cuts do need to be made. You know what lets do it. Lets give all public jobs the Cracker Barrel wage and benefits. Lets have teachers punch in and out for 6 hours a day making minimum wage to teach your retarded children.

Its not that the public sector pay/benefited to well its that you've taken it up ass for so that you "gubament doesn't work" ideologues actually have sold out for pittance! Even illegal Mexicans have to ask where is your pride? Most of you clowns couldn't even afford to send your children to school if it wasn't for the measly taxes if any you put into the system. But thats the dream of the privatized ideologues world. Where your barefooted pregnant wife is homeschooling Timmy in the family bunker!

I'd give it a 2, maybe a 2.5 on the Rant-O-Meter....mostly because you managed to hit all the stereotype talking points. Not that you made any sense, but at least you nailed that portion of the rant.

 

[CitizenKain]

I was hoping someone would post this, I was too lazy to do it myself.

I am with Walker on this.

Being in a union is NOT a right. I am sick of paying huge income taxes, ridiculous car taxes when I buy a car on Craigslist, and getting sucked dry by this state, so they could have 9 guys on the road crew fixing a light bulb. So teachers can work 175 days a year, have full healthcare paid for, and retire at 55 with a phat guarenteed pension.

Why not? Really, I want to hear your reason why people can't form unions. If you are smart enough to think of one, which I doubt.

 

[fskimospy]

Why on Earth should you be able to make political contributions as an individual, but prohibit groups of people (corporations) from contributing together?

Otherwise, would you agree that if you have the right to be in a union, that the employer (the state in this case), has the right to terminate you and replace you with somebody that doesn't want to be in a union? Why should the state be extorted by threats from a group acting against the financial interest of it?

Fire them all, and hire back the ones that don't want to be in a union. In today's market, the employer has the bargaining power, NOT the union.

Uhmm, did you miss Citizens United?

Of course the employer should have a right to fire union workers if he wants, it's up to the union workers to make such a choice unpalatable. The state isn't being 'extorted' any more than any business that drives a bargain ever in the entire course of humanity is 'extorting' the other party. You do believe in the free market, don't you?

If the employer fired all his employees and hired back the ones not in the union, in most businesses I can think of a whole ton of ways in which the workers could make him sorely regret it. Hell, that's what built the unions in this country, shitting on employers who tried to fuck over their workers.

The sheer rage that I see directed at people collectively bargaining with labor as opposed to people bargaining with collected capital is simply baffling. One involves rich people, the other involves poor people. In the end the bargains driven that benefit the holder of capital or the holder of labor both hurt you the consumer, but the outrage is awfully selective.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

Snip

Very well said.

I am regrettably a member of the TAA, the UW-Madison teaching assistants' union. I make $1,600/month plus full benefits and full tuition remission for working 6-15 hours/week. I am shocked at how so many of my TA colleagues are totally disconnected from reality. This type of job is essentially non-existent in the private sector.

Back in 2007/08 when I got here, I encouraged our union leaders to make reasonable concessions like pay freezes, small increases to healthcare withholding, etc. simply so we could get a contract signed - the economic writing on the wall was very clear back then. It was obvious the economy was going to get worse before it got better. Instead, they chose to pursue such issues as mandatory lactation rooms for breastfeeding mothers and same sex domestic partner benefits, and refused to agree to any minor decreases in our take home pay. Now, we're facing the loss of our union, pay cuts, benefit cuts, and most importantly, loss of tuition remission. Then again I shouldn't be too surprised at the union's lack of vision, given that most of our union leadership is in their late 30s and haven't managed to earn their PhD in 15+ years.

I am well aware of how fortunate I am to have this job. No one - no one - talks about sacrifice when we go out to drink. They're too busy using their $500 iPhones and $100/month data plans to facebook about how much they care about K-12 teachers (but sorry, they're too busy to actually engage in community outreach or teacher education). Quite frankly, even the graduate school is filled with deadweights who don't produce and parasitize UW. Maybe Walker will get rid of them.

Don't even get me started on teachers' unions...

 

[Homerboy]

Very well said.

I am regrettably a member of the TAA, the UW-Madison teaching assistants' union. I make $1,600/month plus full benefits and full tuition remission for working 6-15 hours/week. I am shocked at how so many of my TA colleagues are totally disconnected from reality. This type of job is essentially non-existent in the private sector.

Back in 2007/08 when I got here, I encouraged our union leaders to make reasonable concessions like pay freezes, small increases to healthcare withholding, etc. simply so we could get a contract signed - the economic writing on the wall was very clear back then. It was obvious the economy was going to get worse before it got better. Instead, they chose to pursue such issues as mandatory lactation rooms for breastfeeding mothers and same sex domestic partner benefits, and refused to agree to any minor decreases in our take home pay. Now, we're facing the loss of our union, pay cuts, benefit cuts, and most importantly, loss of tuition remission. Then again I shouldn't be too surprised at the union's lack of vision, given that most of our union leadership is in their late 30s and haven't managed to earn their PhD in 15+ years.

I am well aware of how fortunate I am to have this job. No one - no one - talks about sacrifice when we go out to drink. They're too busy using their $500 iPhones and $100/month data plans to facebook about how much they care about K-12 teachers (but sorry, they're too busy to actually engage in community outreach or teacher education). Quite frankly, even the graduate school is filled with deadweights who don't produce and parasitize UW. Maybe Walker will get rid of them.

Don't even get me started on teachers' unions...

I want to copy and paste your comments to many of my friends and acquaintances and see their responses...

 

[Gigantopithecus]

I want to copy and paste your comments to many of my friends and acquaintances and see their responses...

Do me a favor and omit my user name. As you might imagine, mine is not a popular opinion on campus.

 

[davmat787]

Gov Walker may be setting up the entire state of Wisconsin up to a boycott by organized Labor nationwide. Wisconsin used to be a strong Union State, and as worker abuse increases, yes Unions will start coming back in a big way.

Big business sure is not doing anything for the American worker, and now the Wisconsin GOP has declared war on the Wisconsin worker.

When does cutbacks in a time of budget crisis equal war on the worker? Maybe by cutting back some he can save jobs rather than having to close down departments all together?

 

[OCGuy]

When does cutbacks in a time of budget crisis equal war on the worker? Maybe by cutting back some he can save jobs rather than having to close down departments all together?

In Loony Liberal land, it makes sense apparently.

 

[WHAMPOM]

What happened to Wisconsin. It used to be a nice place. Did someone put something in the water to make all these people vote in the wakadoodles?

Out of state money buying political propaganda commercials.

 

[spidey07]

Collective bargaining is bad because it's a form of price fixing which is illegal between business. You can't have all the PC makers get together and decide on a minimum price to charge everybody just like you can't have a labor pool get together and force what a business should pay or benefits compensation, that as well is price fixing and should be illegal.

Employment is nothing more than an exchange of services for money and as such it should be held to the same rules as any business where money is exchanged for goods or services.

 

[davmat787]

In Loony Liberal land, it makes sense apparently.

Which is a shame if true, because this is not a left vs. right issue. How we got to this point might be, but the sides have to come together to dig us out.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Wisconsin got a election recall law?

 

[Gigantopithecus]

Which is a shame if true, because this is not a left vs. right issue. How we got to this point might be, but the sides have to come together to dig us out.

Everything in this country is now touted as a left vs. right, us vs. them issue. Most people are too stupid to realize that while they're busy spouting empty rhetoric and repeating vacuous sound bites, they're getting exploited.

Many of my colleagues have spent the last three days protesting down at the capitol building. I wrote a book chapter for an edited volume. What looks better on a job application? I learned long ago that if you really want to improve your lot in life, you have to do it yourself. No one will just give it to you, and no union boss will do it for you.

 

[CitizenKain]

Collective bargaining is bad because it's a form of price fixing which is illegal between business. You can't have all the PC makers get together and decide on a minimum price to charge everybody just like you can't have a labor pool get together and force what a business should pay or benefits compensation, that as well is price fixing and should be illegal.

Employment is nothing more than an exchange of services for money and as such it should be held to the same rules as any business where money is exchanged for goods or services.

By that extension then corporations are bad as well?

 

[spidey07]

By that extension then corporations are bad as well?

No. Thanks to antitrust laws which I think covers the price fixing issue. Honestly I just thought of this angle so think it through. Cooersion and price fixing is illegal between business in exchage of goods and services. Should be the same with labor as the transactions are the sameto me.

 

[CitizenKain]

No. Thanks to antitrust laws which I think covers the price fixing issue. Honestly I just thought of this angle so think it through. Cooersion and price fixing is illegal between business in exchage of goods and services. Should be the same with labor as the transactions are the sameto me.

Does this apply to corporations fixing wages? I really want to see how far down the rabbit hole this goes.

 

[Jadow]

Why not? Really, I want to hear your reason why people can't form unions. If you are smart enough to think of one, which I doubt.

I may need to clarify my position.

Sure, they can form them, however corporations and government should not be forced to negotiate with them or forced to use their labor. Also, people should not be required to join the union in order to work in a certain place.

 

[davmat787]

Everything in this country is now touted as a left vs. right, us vs. them issue. Most people are too stupid to realize that while they're busy spouting empty rhetoric and repeating vacuous sound bites, they're getting exploited.

Many of my colleagues have spent the last three days protesting down at the capitol building. I wrote a book chapter for an edited volume. What looks better on a job application? I learned long ago that if you really want to improve your lot in life, you have to do it yourself. No one will just give it to you, and no union boss will do it for you.

Wish more people felt this way. This country spends way too much time pointing to the left or right, rather than pointing the way FORWARD. Or, well Bush did this or Clinton did that type of thinking. Sometimes I wonder if we would be better off abolishing the party system all together, way too many people make important decisions based purely on the little R or D after a name.

Just look at some of the comments in this thread!

PS: Best of luck to you and yours, regardless of your political leanings.

 

[*kjm]

Wish more people felt this way. This country spends way too much time pointing to the left or right, rather than pointing the way FORWARD. Or, well Bush did this or Clinton did that type of thinking. Sometimes I wonder if we would be better off abolishing the party system all together, way too many people make important decisions based purely on the little R or D after a name.

Just look at some of the comments in this thread!

PS: Best of luck to you and yours, regardless of your political leanings.

Look at the system most of them grew up in....

I'm with Gigantopithecus and this will effect me... I'm staff.