Got into a pretty heated debate with the manager of Belle Tire

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
I dropped my car off today at Belle Tire to have a new tire put on and an allignment done. We agreed on $150 and I killed an hour while they were supposed to be working on it. When I got back, my car was still on the hoist. Apparently, a brake line snapped when they were pulling it in.

My argument was that I dropped off my car in a certain condition and I should get it back in the same condition. I don't think they broke the line on purpose and don't know if they really did anything to make it happen when it was in their possession. But the point is that something happened while they had it. They offered to replace the brake line for $100. That's $20 for the line and $80 in labor.

After going rounds with the manager, I got fed up and told him that I didn't want to do business with them and that I wanted my car back in the same condition that it was in when I brought it in. He got a bit worried because he realized that I do have the right to demand that. He called his boss and came back and was wanting to deal. I said that I was willing to pay for the parts but not the labor. He came back with an offer of $220 for 2 tires and the brake line but no alignment. My whole reason for bringing it in was that it needed an alignment.

So I told him I wanted a night to sleep on it. My car is still up there and unless I call him and tell him different, he is going to do the brake line and throw a used tire on it for $100. I will still have to pay for an alignment later on. I am not happy but at least my car will be driveable.

Anyone have experience dealing with their corporate office?





Cliffs:
Dropped off my car to get it worked on
Brake line magically busted while they had it
I don't think I should have to pay for the labor to fix the brake line
Their manager talks like Elmer Fudd


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update:
I went to pick up my car and told the manager I wanted to talk to him in private. I showed him the laws I linked to below and also the ones on not providing a written estimate and one regarding intentionally misinforming a customer about needed repairs to their vehicle. I told him I would much rather solve this on the spot rather than have the BBB, DOT, SoS and small claims court involved. Its not about the money anymore, its about principle. He said his district manager was aware of the situation and that he wasn't willing to do anything else. I made sure I paid cash so I didn't have to sign anything before I left. No parts were returned to me or offered to be returned to me, violating another major law.

This is going to be my hobby until it gets settled one way or the other.

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10/1 update:

Just got off the phone with the district manager. After a half hour long session of him denying responsibility and me stating the laws and my rights, he finally offered me most of the money I paid for labor back. I still wouldn't go back there or to any other chain repair places. They are only out for profit and don't care about customers. The only reason he was willing to do anything was that I did know my rights.
 
Nov 5, 2001
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well, to be honest, I don't know that you can force them to fix it without proof that they caused the damage through negligence.
 

Sphexi

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2005
7,280
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Are you kidding? They snagged a brake line and busted it, and they're going to charge you for it? Fuck them. They could break whatever they wanted, offer you a "deal" on the repair, and make extra revenue that way. Call corporate and tell them what happened, and that you aren't going to pay them a dime extra for something that they broke.
 

abaez

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
7,155
1
81
What would watching it do? You gonna stop them before they accidently break something?
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
Originally posted by: abaez
What would watching it do? You gonna stop them before they accidently break something?

Both of those thoughts went through my head.

I do think it was an accident but paying $80 in labor (which is straight profit for them) is getting under my skin. I sold car audio for a long time. If something broke while it was in our garage, we fixed it.
 
S

SlitheryDee

Trying to play devil's advocate here, but what if the line was faulty and needed replacement when the car was brought in? Would the garage be responsible if breaking the brake line was somehow unavoidable? Seems to me that in most situations a decent shop would replace the line for free, but are they really liable?
 

Legendary

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2002
7,019
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Corporate exists for this purpose.
Like mail in rebates, local shops rely on lazyness
 

SN4p

Senior member
Jan 20, 2005
662
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you need to nail these assholes to the wall... that is absolutely rediculous. call corporate threaten a suit and tell them you are calling the BBB.
 

Garet Jax

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2000
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71
Originally posted by: SlitheryDee
Trying to play devil's advocate here, but what if the line was faulty and needed replacement when the car was brought in? Would the garage be responsible if breaking the brake line was somehow unavoidable? Seems to me that in most situations a decent shop would replace the line for free, but are they really liable?

You're an idiot. If you're going to play Devil's Advocate, at least choose a position with merit.
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
Originally posted by: SN4p
you need to nail these assholes to the wall... that is absolutely rediculous. call corporate threaten a suit and tell them you are calling the BBB.

Tomorrow is Saturday and they have me by the balls. I need my car tomorrow night so I am probably going to have to pay them tomorrow. The car has no brakes so its stuck there. I was planning on calling their corporate in the morning. If that didn't get me anywhere I would file a BBB claim and then file a small claims suit if needed.

 

Iron Woode

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 10, 1999
31,150
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just where did the line break? was it the flex line or the hard line?

the answers to these questions would tell me if it was a part ready to fail or something they did.
 

olds

Elite Member
Mar 3, 2000
50,096
771
126
I have never heard of a brake line breaking without an external force.
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
Originally posted by: Iron Woode
just where did the line break? was it the flex line or the hard line?

the answers to these questions would tell me if it was a part ready to fail or something they did.

It was the hard line. Just in front of the rear tire there is a 90 degree bend where it connects to the line running to the master cylinder.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,284
1,997
126
Originally posted by: SN4p
you need to nail these assholes to the wall... that is absolutely rediculous. call corporate threaten a suit and tell them you are calling the BBB.

Nobody is afraid of the BBB. You can file 1,000 BBB complaints and it won't hurt them at all. Tell them you're calling the consumer advocate crusading reporter of the local TV station and/or newspaper. That will get their attention.
 

Iron Woode

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 10, 1999
31,150
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Originally posted by: rudeguy
Originally posted by: Iron Woode
just where did the line break? was it the flex line or the hard line?

the answers to these questions would tell me if it was a part ready to fail or something they did.

It was the hard line. Just in front of the rear tire there is a 90 degree bend where it connects to the line running to the master cylinder.
was the line corroded or showing signs of rusting or physical damage before the car was brought in?

what kind of car is it?
 

gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,739
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Originally posted by: Garet Jax
Originally posted by: SlitheryDee
Trying to play devil's advocate here, but what if the line was faulty and needed replacement when the car was brought in? Would the garage be responsible if breaking the brake line was somehow unavoidable? Seems to me that in most situations a decent shop would replace the line for free, but are they really liable?

You're an idiot. If you're going to play Devil's Advocate, at least choose a position with merit.

It's a completely valid point. BUT the shop should still fix it w/out charging labor as from the customers perspective it seemed like they broke it and it was in perfect order before. If they really cared about the customer they wouldn't be hassling you like this.
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
Originally posted by: Iron Woode


It was the hard line. Just in front of the rear tire there is a 90 degree bend where it connects to the line running to the master cylinder.
was the line corroded or showing signs of rusting or physical damage before the car was brought in?

what kind of car is it?
[/quote]

Its a 95 grand prix. I wouldn't know if there was physical damage to the line before it went in...I know it didn't leak any fluids at all. As far as rusting, there was a little rust on it. Just a little coating on the outside.

If I had to guess, I think it scraped on the hoist when they pulled it in.
 

Iron Woode

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 10, 1999
31,150
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Originally posted by: rudeguy
Originally posted by: Iron Woode


It was the hard line. Just in front of the rear tire there is a 90 degree bend where it connects to the line running to the master cylinder.
was the line corroded or showing signs of rusting or physical damage before the car was brought in?

what kind of car is it?

Its a 95 grand prix. I wouldn't know if there was physical damage to the line before it went in...I know it didn't leak any fluids at all. As far as rusting, there was a little rust on it. Just a little coating on the outside.

If I had to guess, I think it scraped on the hoist when they pulled it in.
that would be my guess too.

I was just trying to eliminate a pre-existing condition from being responsible.

I see you are from Michigan. I am in London Ontario and I know what the winters are like there and how they can cause all kinds of issues to a car's undercarriage.
 

Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
13,897
1
0
Originally posted by: abaez
What would watching it do? You gonna stop them before they accidently break something?

If you see an idiot doing something that damages your car because he was stupid you have a right to have them repair it. If something breaks because it was damaged anyways that's your problem. Tire places break studs with stuck lug nuts all the time (especially in places where there is salt on the roads) and you get charged for it. That's because it's got a problem when it came in. That's understandable. Unless your break lines were messed up when you brought them in there's no reason they should have broken a line.
 

Iron Woode

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 10, 1999
31,150
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Originally posted by: Bignate603
Originally posted by: abaez
What would watching it do? You gonna stop them before they accidently break something?

If you see an idiot doing something that damages your car because he was stupid you have a right to have them repair it. If something breaks because it was damaged anyways that's your problem. Tire places break studs with stuck lug nuts all the time (especially in places where there is salt on the roads) and you get charged for it. That's because it's got a problem when it came in. That's understandable. Unless your break lines were messed up when you brought them in there's no reason they should have broken a line.
my mechanic doesn't charge me when he breaks a wheel stud.

all that needs to be done is to look at the brake line damage and it should be obvious if the line failed due to rust or was ripped open by the hoist.