Got Gas? U.S. Economy to Worsen as Gas Prices Skyrocket

[heymrdj]

OIl and Gas is commodity they can charge whatever the market will bear and I've pointed out sticky economics many times. Almost everything is quick to rise and slow to fall, DEAL WITH IT
Supply and Demand is certainly a factor, a BIG one in pricing, however it is not the ONLY factor which you consistently try to take a very complex system and boil it down to singular drivers or flavour of the week when all these work in concert, boooooo
If they are exporting refined product and they are there is more than enough capacity, however there are REGIONAL disparity and you don't pay the same price for every commodity across the nation. Its a fact.

Such a blowhard . America not need to sit and "DEAL WITH IT" (you probably should have added some of these !!!!!! pointy things to add more volume to your voice ). Fuel is a commodity, as you said, and they can charge beyond what the market will bear with little impact on themselves. You HAVE to go to work, and more than likely you HAVE to drive to work. If you're low on funds and you have to choose between keeping a job (paying for fuel) or having 2 meals a day, most likely you'll start to starve yourself even further to afford the fuel.

We're in a very dangerous position as a society when it comes to the ratio of provisions to work to workers. Employers can pay less and less in light of rising unemployment, while workers must accept provisions at whatever cost they may be should they wish to survive. There comes a point where people will begin to be drowned because the lowest 10% cannot keep their heads above water. There comes a point where there are no options left. There's no jobs, there's no money to move, there's no money to drive to work when they have a job, and they fall further behind. What's a person to do? How long do we throw America down the slippery slope of crushing humanity for the sake of profit?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by dmcowen674
If I owned a refinery I would be incompetent 24/7 365 days a year.

Let me guess, you would run the equipment until it suffers a catastrophic failure rather than perform scheduled maintenance to ensure proper/more efficient operation and increased up time. Or you would violate EPA regulations and state/local laws that determine what blends of gas must be manufactured/sold in the given region.

Bingo

That is exactly what they do.

3-24-2005

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7277890...ound-after-texas-refinery-blast/#.T8z2fcVKUek
Ask all the families of those who have died at that Texas refinery.

15th body found after Texas refinery blast


More than 100 injured in explosion, fire


The plant and town, population 40,000, have dealt with two other refinery accidents within the last year.


The Occupational Safety and Health Administration fined the refinery nearly $110,000 after two employees were burned to death by superheated water in September.


Another explosion forced the evacuation of the plant for several hours last March. Afterward, OSHA fined the refinery $63,000 for 14 safety violations, including problems with its emergency shutdown system and employee training.


Texas City is the site of the worst industrial accident in U.S. history. In 1947, a fire aboard a ship at the Texas City docks triggered a huge explosion that killed 576 people and left fires burning in the city for days.


“Welcome to life in Texas City,” Marion Taylor, 55, said Wednesday. “I was born here, and pretty much, it happens from time to time.”

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by heymrdj
That right there states how flawed the current supply and demand system is on oil. If it rockets up it should immediately come back down again when it drops. There should be no legal reason for keeping it up.

If I run a gas station, the cost of the gas in my underground tank is based on what crude oil cost weeks ago, not today.

Do you know what the margins are on gas at gas stations? They're razor-thin. Why do you think every gas station now has a convenience store attached to it? That's the only place they make any real money.

This has been proven to be a lie a thousand times over.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by heymrdj
When oil skyrockets on the market, gas should not go up .30$ a gallon by that evening or the next morning. It should go up weeks from now.

A valid point. But I don't really know of any objective data that shows that gas really goes up that fast when crude goes up. It's hard to be sure because people notice price increases more than drops.

There are tons of articles and empirical data on this.

Why are you being so disingenuous?

Are you going to come forth and tell us what Oil/Gas company you work for?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by desy
OIl and Gas is commodity they can charge whatever the market will bear and I've pointed out sticky economics many times. Almost everything is quick to rise and slow to fall, DEAL WITH IT
Supply and Demand is certainly a factor, a BIG one in pricing, however it is not the ONLY factor which you consistently try to take a very complex system and boil it down to singular drivers or flavour of the week when all these work in concert, boooooo
If they are exporting refined product and they are there is more than enough capacity, however there are REGIONAL disparity and you don't pay the same price for every commodity across the nation. Its a fact.

Such a blowhard . America not need to sit and "DEAL WITH IT" (you probably should have added some of these !!!!!! pointy things to add more volume to your voice ). Fuel is a commodity, as you said, and they can charge beyond what the market will bear with little impact on themselves. You HAVE to go to work, and more than likely you HAVE to drive to work. If you're low on funds and you have to choose between keeping a job (paying for fuel) or having 2 meals a day, most likely you'll start to starve yourself even further to afford the fuel.

We're in a very dangerous position as a society when it comes to the ratio of provisions to work to workers. Employers can pay less and less in light of rising unemployment, while workers must accept provisions at whatever cost they may be should they wish to survive. There comes a point where people will begin to be drowned because the lowest 10% cannot keep their heads above water. There comes a point where there are no options left. There's no jobs, there's no money to move, there's no money to drive to work when they have a job, and they fall further behind. What's a person to do? How long do we throw America down the slippery slope of crushing humanity for the sake of profit?

The same miscreants have been spouting the same nonsense over and over again falling over themselves to spew that nonsense once again.

None of them have answered my question a few posts up that I have asked many times before and they refuse to give a straight answer.

Since there are admittedly "very few" of these refined product producers and they have been purposely shrinking the numbers.

For example the two refineries that were going to be closed on the east coast and then Delta airlines stepped in and bought one of them.

How come when these producers have a problem they get rewarded and it becomes the peoples problem?

This is the only industry I know of that this is the case.

Normally when a product is flawed at a factory that product is booted off the market because the people don't want it.

This Industry the people are a captive audience and there is nothing they can do to "boot" the producer claiming they are having a problem and that is the reason they have to raise gas to $4.29 a gallon such as the people in Washington state experiencing now.

Those people have no choice but to reward the faulty producer.

This is my case as to why the Industry should be Nationalized.

Now that Delta has purchased their own refinery it is time the people also purchase these refineries away from the incompetent producers.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Originally Posted by dmcowen674
If I owned a refinery I would be incompetent 24/7 365 days a year.



Bingo

That is exactly what they do.

3-24-2005

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7277890...ound-after-texas-refinery-blast/#.T8z2fcVKUek
Ask all the families of those who have died at that Texas refinery.

15th body found after Texas refinery blast


More than 100 injured in explosion, fire


The plant and town, population 40,000, have dealt with two other refinery accidents within the last year.


The Occupational Safety and Health Administration fined the refinery nearly $110,000 after two employees were burned to death by superheated water in September.


Another explosion forced the evacuation of the plant for several hours last March. Afterward, OSHA fined the refinery $63,000 for 14 safety violations, including problems with its emergency shutdown system and employee training.


Texas City is the site of the worst industrial accident in U.S. history. In 1947, a fire aboard a ship at the Texas City docks triggered a huge explosion that killed 576 people and left fires burning in the city for days.


“Welcome to life in Texas City,” Marion Taylor, 55, said Wednesday. “I was born here, and pretty much, it happens from time to time.”

You have no clue what happened, the explosion took place after a major plant turn around (maintenance on all major equipment). The operators bypassed an alarm as they thought it was a nuisance alarm which resulted in a tower over flowing. The overflow turned to vapor and was ignited by a vehicle operating in the vicinity. The explosion was due to operator error and not due to a catastrophic failure.

 

[desy]

As a net energy importer we will have to deal with it. Its a fact, as is about 1 billion $ a day are exported out of the economy its whats called a trade imbalance, a big one and yes I agree our society has been build upon cheap oil and people have come to rely on that.

Thats the hard part, its changing and so must how business is done and yes its going to cause tough choices. Sorry, but the mantra of the American way of life isn't negotiable and won't cut it when you can't control how much a barrel of oil costs. You will pay what it will cost in a Global economy period.

Oil isn't a product that can be easily substitued, if you have an orange crop failure you can choose apples, Beef rises cause of BSE choose pork.

I don't do this because I relish the failure of Wall street or become annoyed when market segments do well either. I do this because fundamentally I believe Peak oil is here from all the information I've been reading since about 2005. The answer factors out the same way everytime, consume less and increase efficiency to become energy independant is the only way to take back control and power of our economy..

Bottom line

I post tons of articles too, Dave chooses to ignore them, Oil is cheaper because of China and European weakness, not anything the US does.

" Oil has suffered what Citigroup called a “vicious sell-off” as signs of slowdown in China and the resurgent eurozone crisis shake consumption forecasts and send investors fleeing to havens. The result was a stronger dollar and pressure on commodities, most traded in the US currency."

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4594a2e8-ae63-11e1-94a7-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1wqs4WfLd

 

[heymrdj]

As a net energy importer we will have to deal with it. Its a fact, as is about 1 billion $ a day are exported out of the economy its whats called a trade imbalance, a big one and yes I agree our society has been build upon cheap oil and people have come to rely on that.

Thats the hard part, its changing and so must how business is done and yes its going to cause tough choices. Sorry, but the mantra of the American way of life isn't negotiable and won't cut it when you can't control how much a barrel of oil costs. You will pay what it will cost in a Global economy period.

Oil isn't a product that can be easily substitued, if you have an orange crop failure you can choose apples, Beef rises cause of BSE choose pork.

I don't do this because I relish the failure of Wall street or become annoyed when market segments do well either. I do this because fundamentally I believe Peak oil is here from all the information I've been reading since about 2005. The answer factors out the same way everytime, consume less and increase efficiency to become energy independant is the only way to take back control and power of our economy..

Bottom line

I post tons of articles too, Dave chooses to ignore them, Oil is cheaper because of China and European weakness, not anything the US does.

" Oil has suffered what Citigroup called a “vicious sell-off” as signs of slowdown in China and the resurgent eurozone crisis shake consumption forecasts and send investors fleeing to havens. The result was a stronger dollar and pressure on commodities, most traded in the US currency."

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4594a2e8-ae63-11e1-94a7-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1wqs4WfLd

There's reasons, and then there's real reasons. The current price of gas isn't just the cost of a barrel of oil. It's the taxes on gas and the speculation on oil that is creating most of the problem.

I understand oil is a tough commodity to come by getting rarer blah blah blah. The problem comes back to those tough choices though. Most people flat out can not make them, and buy no means their fault. If you've seen me in the garage for about 2 years I've been throwing around the idea of an econobox. But as a new kid with burgeoning credit how am I going to get one? I happen to be one of thew few 23 year olds with excellent credit and plenty of good interest loan offers. But I can't bring myself to those monthly payments. 450$ a month is a lot of money for most people, especially since $10/hr is becoming the employer standard in this recession. So how do we get rid of the inefficient cars? If I had to I could swallow my pride and get a 7 year loan at 200 a month, but that's just getting raped by the financial system. Believe me I've been drooling for these new cars. I just went saturday night (after they closed to not be pestered) to the Hyundai and Kia dealerships and looked at the Elantras and the new Rio 5 eco (love that ISG system). They have my perfect Rio 5 there but alas even haggling I would be lucky to get it for 18k out the door, probably 19/19.5 realistically. I could afford it, but it would increase my monthly bill paying stress. So how do we get these cars into the hands of people?

I could take public transport. It would take 2 hours to ride Citilink from home to work, and I don't think they operate early enough to pick me up to be at work by 7AM. Plus I couldn't actually get to my contracted locations. Most employers these days are like that anyways. They don't keep their own cars, they pay you mileage to use yours, so you have to drive your own to get the job in the first place.

As I said, our society is in a dangerous position. Even beyond peak oil, in the midst of a recession, no one can afford to get out of their less efficient cars.


EDIT:

Oh and I post separate from DAVE, my opinion is not his, we just once in a blue moon correspond on a point or two . Secondly, I'm sorry for calling you a blowhard, your post wasn't as harsh as it came across as before lunch.

 

[Svnla]

$3.14/gal for regular unleaded around here (souther US).

 

[werepossum]

You have no clue what happened, the explosion took place after a major plant turn around (maintenance on all major equipment). The operators bypassed an alarm as they thought it was a nuisance alarm which resulted in a tower over flowing. The overflow turned to vapor and was ignited by a vehicle operating in the vicinity. The explosion was due to operator error and not due to a catastrophic failure.

Man, if they thought the alarm was a nuisance, imagine how they felt about the explosion.

As a net energy importer we will have to deal with it. Its a fact, as is about 1 billion $ a day are exported out of the economy its whats called a trade imbalance, a big one and yes I agree our society has been build upon cheap oil and people have come to rely on that.

Thats the hard part, its changing and so must how business is done and yes its going to cause tough choices. Sorry, but the mantra of the American way of life isn't negotiable and won't cut it when you can't control how much a barrel of oil costs. You will pay what it will cost in a Global economy period.

Oil isn't a product that can be easily substitued, if you have an orange crop failure you can choose apples, Beef rises cause of BSE choose pork.

I don't do this because I relish the failure of Wall street or become annoyed when market segments do well either. I do this because fundamentally I believe Peak oil is here from all the information I've been reading since about 2005. The answer factors out the same way everytime, consume less and increase efficiency to become energy independant is the only way to take back control and power of our economy..

Bottom line

I post tons of articles too, Dave chooses to ignore them, Oil is cheaper because of China and European weakness, not anything the US does.

" Oil has suffered what Citigroup called a “vicious sell-off” as signs of slowdown in China and the resurgent eurozone crisis shake consumption forecasts and send investors fleeing to havens. The result was a stronger dollar and pressure on commodities, most traded in the US currency."

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4594a2e8-ae63-11e1-94a7-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1wqs4WfLd

The money leaving the economy is to me the worst part of it. Honestly, gas being $4 rather than $2 really doesn't affect me personally all that much. My bike gets about 50 mpg combined, my Tracker about 25 mpg combined, my commute is under 25 miles round trip, and although I don't make a lot of money I have everything I need. But the effect on the economy over the long haul, that affects us all. Same thing with people having less money to spend on other things, American-made goods and services; it's a big factor depressing our economy.

 

[CallMeJoe]

Fuck...I wish.

http://www.modestogasprices.com/

The stations closest to me are still about $4.15 for regular.

I knew $2.99/gallon couldn't last.


I filled up today @ $2.96...

 

[CallMeJoe]

...Dustin Coupal, the co-founder of GasBuddy.com , says the best place to buy gas is South Carolina, where it's below three dollars a gallon thanks to the lowest gas tax in the country...

It's a combination of low gas tax and location right on the Colonial pipeline, so that we also have minimal transportation costs.

 

[werepossum]

I knew $2.99/gallon couldn't last.


I filled up today @ $2.96...

 

[CallMeJoe]

Topped up Friday @ $2.94 just so I could post again in this Epic Thread.

 

[dmcowen674]

Topped up Friday @ $2.94 just so I could post again in this Epic Thread.

Paid $3.99 today here in the burbs.

Here is link to http://chicagogasprices.com/

I paid in between the low shown of $3.73 and the high shown at $4.49 in the city.

Saw stations in the city in the $3.60's this weekend when we were down there but they don't show up on the websites so I guess they don't exist.

Chicagoans love to pay nearly a dollar more than the rest of the country.

 

[dmcowen674]

6-11-2012

http://finance.yahoo.com/q;_ylt=Aoi...NhdANob21lBHB0A3NlY3Rpb25z;_ylv=3?s=cln12.nym

Crude Oil Jul 12 (CLN12.NYM)

-NY Mercantile

81.88

2.22(2.64%) 3:36PM EDT




Sand and Oil Thugs complaining that there is too much oil surplus and that oil should not be under $100

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/oil-g...RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANob21lBHB0A3NlY3Rpb25z;_ylv=3

OPEC chief hints at action to reduce oil glut



OPEC's president signalled on Monday it could act to reduce a glut of oil that has knocked the price down towards double digits,

Abdul Kareem Luaibi, who also serves as oil minister of Iraq, said maintaining the price at $100-$120 a barrel was "reasonable and acceptable"

"It's very clear there is a tremendous surplus that has led to this severe decline in prices in a very short time span," Luaibi told reporters. "This will not serve anyone."

"We have our own view about the surplus, but it's not diplomatic to talk about if for the time being," he said.

But there are signs that Saudi Arabia could be turning down the taps. It pumped 9.8 million bpd of crude oil in May

 

[TheSlamma]

Sand and Oil Thugs complaining that there is too much oil surplus and that oil should not be under $100

I don't understand this term, are those 2 separate groups of thugs or just 1?

 

[hal2kilo]

Finally, dropped below $4.00 a gal at the Costco out in the Puget Sound area.

Next, to figure out why liquor is actually much more expensive now that we got rid of the state liquor stores and it's sold privately. Seems we were sold a bill of goods. Different thread though.

 

[Svnla]

Down to $3.07/gal for regular unleaded.

 

[CallMeJoe]

$2.91 today; if this continues, South Carolina may get to Newt's $2.50 prediction by inauguration day.

 

[EagleKeeper]

North of Philly well under 3.50. Dropping at least a dime a week.

Shut down the war mongering drums and speculating goes for a bust

 

[dmcowen674]

6-12-2012

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/etfs-hedge-profit-higher-oil-181920087.html

ETFs to Hedge or Profit from Higher Oil Prices



ETFs can give investors the exposure to oil they seek without the need for a commodity account.

Many analysts are anticipating that crude oil has reached a bottom, and could lead higher for the rest of 2012.

The latest oil price estimates range from $104 per barrel to $200 a barrel

 

[dmcowen674]

and up oil goes again.

Gas following of course

Local station had dropped to $3.85 now back up to $3.89

6-15-2012

http://news.yahoo.com/oil-rises-near-85-stock-market-euro-rally-050307074--finance.html

Oil rises to near $85 on stock market, euro rally



Oil rose to near $85 a barrel Friday in Asia, boosted by a global stock market rally and a stronger euro.

Oil traders often look to stock markets as a barometer of overall investor sentiment.

The Dow Jones industrial average advanced 1.2 percent Thursday amid speculation central banks may announce stimulus measures to help boost flagging global economic growth. Most Asian and European stock markets gained Friday.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Must be hell being you. Gas has dropped $0.10/gal this week down here.

 

[dmcowen674]

Must be hell being you. Gas has dropped $0.10/gal this week down here.

Actually NO

I drive a Honda Shadow Motorcycle that gets 57 miles per gallon.

Your buddy oil thugs only get a gallon a week out of me.