Londo_Jowo
Lifer
The oil used by the refineries in Wyoming and Colorado is cheaper than the oil used by other parts of the country.
http://crudeoilpostings.semgroupcorp.com/
The oil used by the refineries in Wyoming and Colorado is cheaper than the oil used by other parts of the country.
http://crudeoilpostings.semgroupcorp.com/
Londo_Jowo
Lifer
blackangst1
Lifer
- Feb 23, 2005
- 22,902
- 2,359
- 126
Doppel
Lifer
- Feb 5, 2011
- 13,306
- 3
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I just saw this. Amazingly, he lied just the day before when he said "Gas jumped 20 cents today to $4.39 here". Doesn't he realize that his lies are so illustrated with http://www.chicagogasprices.com/retail_price_chart.aspx ? Gas jumped about 7 cents that day.
redgtxdi
Diamond Member
- Jun 23, 2004
- 5,464
- 8
- 81
I'm almost rethinking my hatred of gas prices. I mean, I couldn't buy this amount of Obama disapproval by myself............but in combination with a couple hundred million other people?...........Ahhhhhhh.
Anyway, I do find it hilarious to hear him talk about people who, ".....don't know what they're talking about", only to find that he's someone who.......doesn't know what he's talking about!
Drill
Refine
Shackle speculators
Threaten Iran
Slap the wrists of Exxon and OPEC
Do whatever you've got to do to try and do *something* other than attempt to ridicule the American people into thinking we're best off sitting and doing nothing until another green jobs program fails and we move onto another.
Anyway, I do find it hilarious to hear him talk about people who, ".....don't know what they're talking about", only to find that he's someone who.......doesn't know what he's talking about!
Drill
Refine
Shackle speculators
Threaten Iran
Slap the wrists of Exxon and OPEC
Do whatever you've got to do to try and do *something* other than attempt to ridicule the American people into thinking we're best off sitting and doing nothing until another green jobs program fails and we move onto another.
werepossum
Elite Member
- Jul 10, 2006
- 29,873
- 463
- 126
It's a hopey changey thing. Live by the unfounded accusation, die by the unfounded accusation.
- Oct 30, 2004
- 11,442
- 32
- 91
It's quite spectacle, isn't it? "I promise that if elected gasoline prices will drop to $2.50/gallon."
I'd rather hear a president say, "I will work with the auto companies to develop hybrid cars that sell for under $15,000 and that can get 50 mpg."
Eficiency is the single biggest thing that can be done to mitigate the impact of pricing if you still choose to drive.
nonlnear
Platinum Member
- Jan 31, 2008
- 2,497
- 0
- 76
I've found lifestyle choices to be much more powerful than fuel efficiency in managing my gasoline expenditures. In a city of 20 mile commutes I chose a 3.5 mile commute and couldn't be happier. It's like I'm getting 180 mpg and a free 45 minutes every day when compared to my life had I chosen to live 20 miles from work.
In the other threads saying what can the president do? CARB would be one of the things that could change.
Thats why I put the caveat on the end of, if you still choose to drive, moving being a much more drastic option.
Thats why I put the caveat on the end of, if you still choose to drive, moving being a much more drastic option.
nonlnear
Platinum Member
- Jan 31, 2008
- 2,497
- 0
- 76
But I do drive. I drive every day, and live a life that can accommodate $8 gas. The problem with many Americans is that they insist on believing that moving is a drastic option. There is an irrational attachment many people have to the pile of sticks they sleep in.
The notion of pushing efficiency through mandates is deeply flawed. CAFE is a travesty. If you want efficiency you just need to tax gasoline appropriately. If we set fuel taxes at a level capable of funding all road construction, maintenance, and associated land management issues and scrapped CAFE, we would see fuel efficient cars being rushed to market without any mandates, rather being driven by real demand. Also we would see a much more vibrant, competitive automotive industry because CAFE is a massive barrier to entry. It's no coincidence that the first remotely viable automotive startup in decades happened when battery technology finally made an electric sports car a possibility.
werepossum
Elite Member
- Jul 10, 2006
- 29,873
- 463
- 126
Democrats have wanted for decades to raise American gasoline taxes to European levels, if only because they see low taxes as government expenditures. It's just that so far none of them have been willing to pay the political price for doing so. Now the market is doing it for them, albeit without the extra tax revenue - and just when we really need it.
Americans have an amazing tolerance for high gas prices. Even Asian manufacturers sell much bigger, less efficient models in America, 'cause that's what we buy. Those people with little tolerance for high gas prices don't drive the market because they can't usually afford to buy new and therefore exert only a secondary influence on efficiency.
nonlnear
Platinum Member
- Jan 31, 2008
- 2,497
- 0
- 76
The biggest roadblock to higher gas taxes gaining broader acceptance is that the current thinking is that the only rationale for higher gas prices is an environmentalist one. That's one group, but there is also the view that automobile fuel should pay for automobile infrastructure. That would alleviate various state and local expenditures on road development, meaning the overall tax burden wouldn't be going up. (It would alleviate state general fund expenditures. State gas taxes devoted to road construction and maintenance would go up, at least in the short term.)
Another advantage of reducing consumption through gas prices is that it would change urban development patterns spontaneously, rather than through imposed mandates and plans that suburbia doesn't want.
It's a hilarious irony given the level of bitching, but if you look at the vehicles people buy it's true.
If gas prices were pegged at a level so that cars actually paid for their own infrastructure you would see more broad demand for efficiency, even from people who buy new cars. The reason only the poor are intolerant of high gas prices is that gas prices are too low. We have kept prices depressed by paying for roads out of other funding sources, and built a nation where, outside of a few urban areas, everybody needs a car.
I'd like to see us hit $5 gas and stay there by the end of 2013. That would be a start.
Doppel
Lifer
- Feb 5, 2011
- 13,306
- 3
- 0
Agree with this. As gas prices rise your options are:
1) Pay more (and probably bitch about it)
2) Drive less (change habits or move close to work)
3) Drive a more fuel efficient vehicle (my favorite)
Moving to save on gas is not relevant to most people, since chasing a job around a city is a huge endeavor. I agree with short commutes if possible for quality of life, though.
With my last vehicle purchase I saw a more than doubling of my MPG. There are lot of hybrid vehicles and lots of pretty-efficient compacts and small sedans out now. Gas has been charging up for a decade but like good little buffoons we would rather complain about gas than do something to mitigate its impact. Case in point the cheapest Prius now is $20k. You can drive 15,000 miles/year at $4/gallon and your total gas bill is $100/month. Gas could hit $6 during the car's lifetime and you'd hardly notice. Or buy any number of $15-16k corollas, elantra's etc and average low 30's MPG and still not spend that much a month.
As a collective Americans are still buying vast amounts of trucks, SUVs, large minivans. And following up with complaining about gas prices.
Last edited:
bryanW1995
Lifer
- May 22, 2007
- 11,144
- 32
- 91
trucks and suv's are more fuel efficient now, too. If you're getting 18 mpg right now then 23 looks pretty good.
All vehicles are going to trend towards greater fuel efficiency over the coming years, with or without govt mandates. It would just happen more efficiently if we gradually raised taxes on gas purchases and gradually phased out cafe, carb, and all that other crap.
All vehicles are going to trend towards greater fuel efficiency over the coming years, with or without govt mandates. It would just happen more efficiently if we gradually raised taxes on gas purchases and gradually phased out cafe, carb, and all that other crap.
werepossum
Elite Member
- Jul 10, 2006
- 29,873
- 463
- 126
But until recently we were moving in the opposite direction. My '84 Nissan 720 got 28 mpg; my 2004 Ranger gets 19 mpg (and is as big as a full size 70s pickup.) My '89 and '97 Tracker 4WD convertibles got 30 - 32 mpg; my 2003 Tracker 4WD convertible (which is the same size and 600 lbs lighter than the '89) gets 24 - 26 mpg. I do enjoy the extra horsepower (127 versus 89) but while the extra power helps sometimes, the mileage hit is all the time.
US/Britian SPR release imminent according to RTRS.
Others may contribute including Japan. Oil down marginally. RBOB down three quarters of a dime.
Others may contribute including Japan. Oil down marginally. RBOB down three quarters of a dime.
ky54
Senior member
- Mar 30, 2010
- 532
- 1
- 76
It's in election year...
Administration came out denying the story and that "Britain and the US often had meaningful energy policy discussions."
This is what you call floating a headline to see the reaction. Apparently three quarters of a dime didn't seem meaningful enough. If the reaction would have been 15 or 20 cents, you would have seen a different follow up.
On an aside more to Dave's points.
12:58 (Dow Jones) All the talk of a release from emergency reserves misses a key point about the current oil market: There is no shortage of oil. "A shortage of crude or products does not currently exist within the U.S., and European product markets appear adequately supplied," writes Ritterbusch and Associates. Yesterday, the EIA reported commercial oil stockpiles rose 1.8M barrels and are at their highest level since Sept. Demand remains dismal. Nymex crude down 0.3% at $105.12/bbl.
Idle speculation on POSSIBLE shortages due to middle east strife.
Ironically STRENGTHENING our oil reserves should have a more positive effect (raise confidence of a sustainable buffer) than releasing it.
Ironically STRENGTHENING our oil reserves should have a more positive effect (raise confidence of a sustainable buffer) than releasing it.
werepossum
Elite Member
- Jul 10, 2006
- 29,873
- 463
- 126
To those in power there is no emergency so dire as the threat of losing that power.
Never thought about it like that, but you're absolutely right. In a sane world.
- Oct 30, 2004
- 11,442
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What's sad is that few low-cost hybrids are available. I searched Edmunds and found:
http://www.edmunds.com/finder/car-finder-results.html?finder_q=type:Hybrid;type:Electric;price:$15k%20to%20$25k;
Honda Insight Hatchback ($18,350)
Honda CR-Z Hatchback ($19,545)
Toyota Prius C ($18,950 -- maybe)
Where are the American-made hybrids? No where to be seen in the under $25,000 category other than a listing for a "Ford C-Max Wagon" which doesn't seem to be on the market yet.
Come on Honda, make a hybrid Honda Fit, and make a hybrid that competes with the Prius for mpg.
http://www.edmunds.com/finder/car-finder-results.html?finder_q=type:Hybrid;type:Electric;price:$15k%20to%20$25k;
Honda Insight Hatchback ($18,350)
Honda CR-Z Hatchback ($19,545)
Toyota Prius C ($18,950 -- maybe)
Where are the American-made hybrids? No where to be seen in the under $25,000 category other than a listing for a "Ford C-Max Wagon" which doesn't seem to be on the market yet.
Come on Honda, make a hybrid Honda Fit, and make a hybrid that competes with the Prius for mpg.
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