got an ssd, but already have hdd's in raid...ahci or raid???

[f4phantom2500]

title pretty much says it all. i have 2 hard drives in raid 0 and just bought a new sandforce ssd (64GB microcenter g2, specifically), to which i intend to install a fresh copy of windows. i have the sata controller set to raid in the bios, obviously for the raid array, but i know that the ssd is supposed to perform better with ahci enabled...but if i do this won't it make my raid array defunct?

is it possible to keep my raid 0 array and also have the ssd running in ahci? or is the only way to get the ssd in ahci to format the hdd's and run them in standard, non-raid (which wouldn't be too big of an issue since i now have the ssd for fast access and the hard drives would be relegated to storage). is this even worth the hassle of going through?

EDIT:

i ran AS SSD on the SSD and here's the results:

Seq Read: 196.75MB/s Seq Write: 95.79MB/s
4k Read: 14.79MB/s 4k Write: 29.64MB/s
4k-64kThrd Read: 109.89MB/s 4k-64kThrd Write: 89.32MB/s
Acc Time Read: 0.163 ms Acc Time Write: 0.313 ms

overall score 347

 

[frostedflakes]

Download and install the AHCI compatible RAID drivers for your chipset, then AHCI should work with the mobo RAID turned on. 🙂

 

[f4phantom2500]

Download and install the AHCI compatible RAID drivers for your chipset, then AHCI should work with the mobo RAID turned on. 🙂

ok, i installed windows, and windows device manager recognizes the controller as "AMD AHCI Compatible RAID Controller". also, it is running the ahci driver. but i don't think ahci is enabled...after installing windows, the AS SSD score went down quite a bit:

(old score in parentheses)
Seq Read: 147.17MB/s(196.75) Write: 95.61(95.79)
4k Read: 14.75(14.79) Write: 23.40(29.64)
4k-64kThrd Read: 16.45(109.89) Write: 69.57(89.32)
Acc Time Read: 0.189(0.163) Write: 0.312(0.313)
overall score: 176 (347)

so something isn't right, especially with those 4k-64Thrd results...

i found this thread

http://forum.corsair.com/v3/showthread.php?t=86403

in trying to find a solution to get ahci working, and when i went to regedit to see the value of the msahci driver, it's set to 3 in my registry. that site says set it to 0 to get ahci working, but that after you reboot you have to set the controller to ahci in bios, or else it will blue screen and you can't boot -_-...

so since i don't want to (potentially) nuke my computer and waste the last 2 hours of my time, i'm not going to change the registry value to 0 or do anything at this point, since the computer at least works. it's always nice when a windows install goes off without a hitch (knock on wood), but one thing i've learned is if it's working, don't mess with it.

but i really hope someone can give me some insightful solution here...???

 

[Old Hippie]

AMD AHCI Compatible RAID Controller

On some AMD chipsets you can split the SATA ports and keep a coupla ports in IDE compatability mode.

AMD isn't know for the best drivers and I've seen AHCI mode actually slow the drives.

I'd check the Device Manager, make sure that you have "Enable Write Caching" checked and probably go back to the MS drivers.

 

[f4phantom2500]

On some AMD chipsets you can split the SATA ports and keep a coupla ports in IDE compatability mode.

AMD isn't know for the best drivers and I've seen AHCI mode actually slow the drives.

I'd check the Device Manager, make sure that you have "Enable Write Caching" checked and probably go back to the MS drivers.

well in my bios there appears to be a blanket option for all sata ports, not for individual ports. i'm using an msi 790gx-g65, which has the sb750 south bridge.

write caching is enabled, but i don't really know what you mean by "go back" to the MS drivers. do you mean the msahci.sys driver? i've never used it; this is a fresh install and i installed the amd ahci raid driver from the motherboard driver cd when i installed windows because it was the only way i could get it to install. i don't really want to switch to the msahci driver haphazardly and have my computer not boot up then be stuck in that situation; basically i don't know if it will work and i don't want to find out the hard way.

 

[Old Hippie]

this is a fresh install and i installed the amd ahci raid driver from the motherboard driver cd when i installed windows because it was the only way i could get it to install.

I see say's the blind Old Hippie! 😀

I thought you were running the SSD in IDE mode with the MS drivers.....Did I screw that up or what? 😀

I also thought you had to be using AHCI to run RAID. Maybe that's just the Intel chipset.

You can definately use the MS drivers and many did because AMD's AHCI drivers didn't support TRIM until recently and the MS drivers were faster.

Read this thread for a little more info.

 

[Old Hippie]

well in my bios there appears to be a blanket option for all sata ports, not for individual ports

Looks like it's called combined mode.

Check out this thread.

 

[f4phantom2500]

I see say's the blind Old Hippie! 😀

I thought you were running the SSD in IDE mode with the MS drivers.....Did I screw that up or what? 😀

I also thought you had to be using AHCI to run RAID. Maybe that's just the Intel chipset.

You can definately use the MS drivers and many did because AMD's AHCI drivers didn't support TRIM until recently and the MS drivers were faster.

Read this thread for a little more info.

well, yeah, trim is running, which is nice. i feel kinda noobish here but i don't really know how to get the controller to use the msahci.sys driver instead of the amd one. i downloaded the ms driver and saved it to the desktop, but when i tried going to device manager, update driver, manually select driver, and tel it to check the file location of the ms driver for a driver, it comes back at me saying the only driver is the amd driver...???

as for my bios, here are the options:

SATA Controller (enable/disable)
SATA RAID mode (IDE/RAID/AHCI)

and thats it...-_-...i guess i don't get this combine mode.

 

[taltamir]

is it possible to keep my raid 0 array and also have the ssd running in ahci?

This depends on your mobo. Generally speaking if you set RAID mode it will ALSO enable AHCI.
All intel mobos use AHCI in RAID mode, and an SSD will get trim for an intel mobo set to raid mode as long as the SSD itself is not part of the array.

 

[f4phantom2500]

This depends on your mobo. Generally speaking if you set RAID mode it will ALSO enable AHCI.
All intel mobos use AHCI in RAID mode, and an SSD will get trim for an intel mobo set to raid mode as long as the SSD itself is not part of the array.

yeah, it appears that ahci is indeed running, and that trim is active, but my computer is using the amd ahci driver. i just can't figure out how to get it to use the microsoft driver instead. i know the intel driver is supposed to be the best, but i believe it only works with intel chipsets.

 

[taltamir]

yes the intel driver indeed is limited to intel chipsets.
What makes you think TRIM is working as intended? Windows will tell you if it is enabled, but windows ALWAYS says it is enabled unless you manually disabled it. The drive does not report if it is receiving messages. Which requires, in addition to windows having it enabled:
1. A driver that supports it (default MS driver for AHCI, but not IDE. One specific IDE driver, forgot whose. Intel AHCI driver. I don't know about AMD's driver)
2. The controller passing it along (typically all that requires is a driver update and following certain restrictions. In most it means that RAID must be disabled, latest intel drivers allow RAID to be enabled as long as the SSD is not part of the array)

MS driver was the first to have proper trim support but it isn't the only one. I am honestly not sure about the state of SSDs with AMD mobos. Anyone else knows and cares to chime in?

 

[f4phantom2500]

What makes you think TRIM is working as intended?

from the site linked in my 2nd post:

How do I know if TRIM is working in Windows 7?

In the Elevated command Prompt windows, type the following:

fsutil behavior query disabledeletenotify
Results explained below:
DisableDeleteNotify = 1 (Windows TRIM commands are disabled)
DisableDeleteNotify = 0 (Windows TRIM commands are enabled)



i followed those steps and it says = 0.

 

[Old Hippie]

Looks like no combined mode for you. That's OK.

I was just pointing out the possibility for troubleshooting.

I'd probably get rid of the AHCI and go back to the origional configuration.

(default MS driver for AHCI, but not IDE. One specific IDE driver, forgot whose.

AFAIK the MS driver supports TRIM in IDE or AHCI mode.

 

[Emulex]

raid on my dell means raid-set drivers (matrix raid 9) are raid and everything else is AHCI.

and that is how intel RST sees it.

 

[taltamir]

from the site linked in my 2nd post:

How do I know if TRIM is working in Windows 7?

In the Elevated command Prompt windows, type the following:

fsutil behavior query disabledeletenotify
Results explained below:
DisableDeleteNotify = 1 (Windows TRIM commands are disabled)
DisableDeleteNotify = 0 (Windows TRIM commands are enabled)

i followed those steps and it says = 0.

A lot of sites are filled with BS information. As I explained, this does NOT mean that TRIM is working. All it means is that windows is generating TRIM messages. This will ALWAYS be the case unless you manually disabled it. TRIM can still fail to reach the drive if the driver or controller can't handle it (see my previous post)

AFAIK the MS driver supports TRIM in IDE or AHCI mode.

Are you sure? AFAIK only one 3rd party IDE drivers supports TRIM, not MS's IDE driver. Although I am not too sure about that

Well, regardless you should be using AHCI for NCQ qhich gives a huge performance boost to SSDs.

 

[Old Hippie]

Are you sure? AFAIK only one 3rd party IDE drivers supports TRIM, not MS's IDE driver.

I'm positive MS's IDE driver supports TRIM.

I believe Amd's newest AHCI driver (1.2.1.263) does also.

Other than the price factor I have no idea why anyone would buy AMD at this time.

 

[taltamir]

thanks for the info about MS's IDE driver.

Price is a huge factor though.
Although I think they are failing to calculate how much electricity per year they would save with an intel. I did the exact same calculation in the past and found the athlonXP to be better in every way then its intel counterparts. Then with the athlon64.
For a little while AMD had superior integrated graphics, but they go along with inferior CPU performance, inferior power efficiency, and inferior SATA controller. But now intel's latest offering have a solid integrated GPU, what with beating AMD to fusion. Intel simply has AMD on the ropes right now.
Achk, went on a tangent there... This is not really relevant to the issue discussed in this thread.

 

[f4phantom2500]

A lot of sites are filled with BS information. As I explained, this does NOT mean that TRIM is working. All it means is that windows is generating TRIM messages. This will ALWAYS be the case unless you manually disabled it. TRIM can still fail to reach the drive if the driver or controller can't handle it (see my previous post)

yeah, well you asked why i think trim is enabled, so i told you. the site seems pretty legit, but i don't know what else to do *shrug*.

 

[taltamir]

yeah, well you asked why i think trim is enabled, so i told you.

Fair enough 😛.

Well, you just need a supported configuration + Driver. Information about that can be asked of people here or googled.

I am not sure how AMD southbridge controller handles an SSD on the same controller as a RAID array but not part of the array. If anyone knows please say so.

 

[f4phantom2500]

I am not sure how AMD southbridge controller handles an SSD on the same controller as a RAID array but not part of the array. If anyone knows please say so.

yeah, apparently this is a pretty specific problem; the threads i found online just kind of taper off with no solid answer. i suppose i could just format the drives in the raid array and run them in non-raid, since they'll mainly be used for storage. the only real incentive to keep them in raid is that i'll have my games installed on them, and they're caviar greens...not bad throughput really but still hard drives; currently they are fine for the games i play in raid, and i'd rather not have to run them individually.

 

[taltamir]

the surefire alternative is to run either them or the SSD off of a third party SATA controller.
Although it would be silly to buy one if they are perfectly able to do so... have you considered sending an email to your mobo manufacturer and asking them for clarification?

 

[f4phantom2500]

the surefire alternative is to run either them or the SSD off of a third party SATA controller.
Although it would be silly to buy one if they are perfectly able to do so... have you considered sending an email to your mobo manufacturer and asking them for clarification?

i decided to just deal with it; if i ever feel compelled to get ahci to work i'll just reformat and run it in ahci mode...although i suppose since the microsoft driver isn't that great then an add-on sata controller would probably run it better anyway...

 

[SuPrEIVIE]

never used raid before but when i check google alot of articles and discussions pop up about its poor viability whether its raid for speed or redudancy, for speed only real difference is in benchmarks. However i've always seen tons of people on these forums raid for speed for their hard drives anyway. I've never really bothered at all considering the dominoes doom if one hd dies. Sorry to go off on this but curious.

 

[taltamir]

SuPrEIVIE: In some ways you are right, but it really depends on the type and quality of of the RAID in question... RAID is too diverse a topic to be generalized.
You can get good speed with a high quality controller (300$+ typically)
And you can get good reliability with non standard implementations like raidz (ZFS raid-like implementation that is much superior to traditional raid).
With raidz/2/3 you are far less likely to lose anything to drive failure then you are with single drive; and can even protect against data corruption (a problem with single drives)