Got a ticket....should i fight it?

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SacrosanctFiend

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2004
4,269
0
0
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
In PA it is not illegal to enter an intersection when the light is yellow, but it is illegal to be in the intersection when the light turns red.

According to the law that sao123 posted, you just can't enter the intersection when the light is red.


According to the judge which interpreted this law, what I have said is correct. It will and has held up in court.

So, now it has gone from the law stating that it is illegal to one judge's interpretation of that law.


Lets go back to 2nd grade social studies...
Thats what judges do... they interpret what the legislators write. And once a decision is made on a particular law, this case ruling can be used as evidence in other courts for other cases.

One judge's opinion in traffic court does not influence future cases. A traffic court judge does not write an opinion from which to analyze his interpretation. Even in criminal court, one judge's opinion doesn't hold much weight, as that opinion can simply be interpreted differently by another judge.

Again, you went from saying that the law stated it to "the judge interpreted it." Which is it?
 

yowolabi

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2001
4,183
2
81
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: manowar821
If you ran a yellow, thats no crime. It's not dangerous, either. I'm curious as to why he even bothered you about it.

another person who has no idea about PA driving laws.

In PA yellow does not mean "proceed with caution"...
Yellow means green condition has terminated and red is forthcoming.
No further vehicles may enter the intersection...

This makes no sense. Let's say you're 5 feet from the intersection and the light turns yellow.... according to your definition you've broken the law and deserve a ticket even though it's physically impossible to stop your car before you reach the intersection. The only way you could have known the light was about to turn yellow and slowed down in time is if you were psychic. So those people who aren't psychic and can't predict when a yellow is coming are all criminals?

I'm going to need to see some proof before I believe that anyone would be stupid enough to create a law like this.

Edit: I read the rest of the thread and now see that no one was stupid enough to create that law. Sao123 is just claiming that one or more idiot judges are interpreting it that way.

So proof that judges are enforcing a ridiculous law that was never created?
 

Killerme33

Senior member
Jan 17, 2006
399
0
0
When/if you go to court how are you gonna prove the light was yellow when you entered, or how is the officer gonna prove it was red?
 

OJ

Senior member
Oct 9, 1999
858
0
0
I got a ticket for a running a yellow light years ago, the cop checked the box for running a red light and crossed out red, then wrote amber above the word red.

Didn't matter to the judge, he said running a yellow light is the same as running a red light, they just wanted the money.
 

KK

Lifer
Jan 2, 2001
15,903
4
81
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: manowar821
If you ran a yellow, thats no crime. It's not dangerous, either. I'm curious as to why he even bothered you about it.

another person who has no idea about PA driving laws.

In PA yellow does not mean "proceed with caution"...
Yellow means green condition has terminated and red is forthcoming.
No further vehicles may enter the intersection...

PA state law does not state that no further vehicles may enter. In fact, the law states that "vehicular traffic facing a steady yellow signal is thereby warned that the related green indication is being terminated or that a red indication will be exhibited immediately thereafter."


§ 3112. Traffic-control signals.
(a) General rule.--Whenever traffic is controlled by traffic-control signals exhibiting different
colored lights, or colored lighted arrows, successively one at a time or in combination, only the colors
green, red and yellow shall be used, except for special pedestrian signals carrying a word legend, and
the lights shall indicate and apply to drivers of vehicles and pedestrians as follows:
(1) Green indication.--
(i) Vehicular traffic facing a circular green signal may proceed
straight through or turn right or left unless a sign at such place prohibits either such turn
except that vehicular traffic, including vehicles turning right or left, shall yield the rightof-
way to other vehicles and to pedestrians lawfully within the intersection or an adjacent
crosswalk at the time the signal is exhibited.
(ii) Vehicular traffic facing a green arrow signal, shown alone or in
combination with another indication, may enter the intersection only to make the
movement indicated by the arrow, or such other movement as is permitted by other
indications shown at the same time. Such vehicular traffic shall yield the right-of-way to
pedestrians lawfully within an adjacent crosswalk and to other traffic lawfully using the
intersection.
(iii) Unless otherwise directed by a pedestrian-control signal as
provided in section 3113 (relating to pedestrian-control signals), pedestrians facing any
green signal may proceed across the roadway within a crosswalk.
(2) Steady yellow indication.--
(i) Vehicular traffic facing a steady yellow signal is thereby warned
that the related green indication is being terminated or that a red indication will be
exhibited immediately thereafter.
(ii) Unless otherwise directed by a pedestrian-control signal as
provided in section 3113, pedestrians facing a steady yellow signal are thereby advised
that there is insufficient time to cross the roadway before a red indication is shown and no
pedestrian shall then start to cross the roadway.
(3) Steady red indication.--
(i) Vehicular traffic facing a steady red signal alone shall stop at a
clearly marked stop line, or if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the
intersection, or if none, then before entering the intersection and shall remain standing
until an indication to proceed is shown except as provided in subparagraph (ii).
(ii) Unless signing is in place prohibiting a turn, vehicular traffic
facing a steady red signal may enter the intersection to turn right, or to turn left from a
one-way highway onto a one-way highway after stopping as required by subparagraph (i).
Such vehicular traffic shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully within an
adjacent crosswalk and to other traffic lawfully using the intersection.
(iii) Unless otherwise directed by a pedestrian-control signal as
provided in section 3113, pedestrians facing a steady red signal alone shall not enter the
roadway.


Once the yellow light is on, green session is terminated, and your ability to enter the intersection has ended.

I have worked at PENNDOT and I know what the law says.

No wonder the roads in PA are so fvcked up. They hire morons that can't read. :p
 

meltdown75

Lifer
Nov 17, 2004
37,548
7
81
LOL... this morning @ work when I saw this posted, I just KNEW it would end up being a big thread. :beer: ATOT :)
 

Xyclone

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
10,312
0
76
Originally posted by: manowar821
If you ran a yellow, thats no crime. It's not dangerous, either. I'm curious as to why he even bothered you about it.

The cop was hoping he would shut up and pay the ticket.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Originally posted by: Xyclone
Originally posted by: manowar821
If you ran a yellow, thats no crime. It's not dangerous, either. I'm curious as to why he even bothered you about it.

The cop was hoping he would shut up and pay the ticket.

We're assuming the OP is telling the truth and he actually was in the intersection when the light turned read.
 

alimoalem

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2005
4,025
0
0
i'm just gonna add another vote for fight it. i didn't see this argument (didn't read through every post) so add that because it was raining, you didn't feel safe pushing the brakes hard at the time the light turned yellow. let us know how it goes
 

bahbahbooey

Member
Nov 18, 2006
83
0
0
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
In PA it is not illegal to enter an intersection when the light is yellow, but it is illegal to be in the intersection when the light turns red.

According to the law that sao123 posted, you just can't enter the intersection when the light is red.


According to the judge which interpreted this law, what I have said is correct. It will and has held up in court.

So, now it has gone from the law stating that it is illegal to one judge's interpretation of that law.


Lets go back to 2nd grade social studies...
Thats what judges do... they interpret what the legislators write. And once a decision is made on a particular law, this case ruling can be used as evidence in other courts for other cases.

The statute you cited earlier CLEARLY does NOT state what you said in italics here "Once the yellow light is on, green session is terminated, and your ability to enter the intersection has ended. "

So why don't you cite a case where the judge decided the way you claim, "Captain Social Studies"....
 

Zee

Diamond Member
Nov 27, 1999
5,171
3
76
Originally posted by: J0hnny
ALWAYS fight, even if you are guilty. The traffic violation system is set up to make money off of you. When you plead not guilty and show up for the scheduled date, they give you a reduced fine and lower points if you plead guity.

yup
 

Xyclone

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
10,312
0
76
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: Xyclone
Originally posted by: manowar821
If you ran a yellow, thats no crime. It's not dangerous, either. I'm curious as to why he even bothered you about it.

The cop was hoping he would shut up and pay the ticket.

We're assuming the OP is telling the truth and he actually was in the intersection when the light turned read.

Yeah, he could be BS'ing it. If you really did run the red, I'm not sure if fighting it would be worth your time, unless you're tight on money and have extra time on your hands.
 

Spineshank

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2001
7,728
1
71
Originally posted by: Xyclone
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: Xyclone
Originally posted by: manowar821
If you ran a yellow, thats no crime. It's not dangerous, either. I'm curious as to why he even bothered you about it.

The cop was hoping he would shut up and pay the ticket.

We're assuming the OP is telling the truth and he actually was in the intersection when the light turned read.

Yeah, he could be BS'ing it. If you really did run the red, I'm not sure if fighting it would be worth your time, unless you're tight on money and have extra time on your hands.

Nope, not BSing. I have even said it turned once i was under it. I only know that cause of it having a corner light as well. Otherwise i would have assumed it never turned red till i was completely through. My assumption though is that the court costs make it not worth it to fight anyhow so it doesnt really matter.
 

Boo Boo

Golden Member
Aug 2, 2005
1,514
0
0
dont run a red light when a cops around. and if it was a trafic light cam dont see you getting off it. dont be in such a hurry that 4 min wait coulda saved you 107 and it sure beats getting pulled over wasting 20-30 min and everyone seen you pulled over
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
In PA it is not illegal to enter an intersection when the light is yellow, but it is illegal to be in the intersection when the light turns red.

According to the law that sao123 posted, you just can't enter the intersection when the light is red.


According to the judge which interpreted this law, what I have said is correct. It will and has held up in court.

So, now it has gone from the law stating that it is illegal to one judge's interpretation of that law.


Lets go back to 2nd grade social studies...
Thats what judges do... they interpret what the legislators write. And once a decision is made on a particular law, this case ruling can be used as evidence in other courts for other cases.

One judge's opinion in traffic court does not influence future cases. A traffic court judge does not write an opinion from which to analyze his interpretation. Even in criminal court, one judge's opinion doesn't hold much weight, as that opinion can simply be interpreted differently by another judge.

Again, you went from saying that the law stated it to "the judge interpreted it." Which is it?

I'd be surprised if an appellate court judge would interpret the law not only in a way that is completely contradictory to the way it is written, but also in a way that nearly completely defeats the purpose of a yellow light. A yellow light is there to warn you that a red light is coming, so that if you can stop in time you stop. It is there so people don't slam on their brakes when the light turns red and they're 50 feet away. If you gave a person a ticket for "running a yellow light" that turned yellow when they were 50 feet away, you'd have a lot of rear-end collisions in PA.