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got $1000 to spend on components

Raybdbomb

Senior member
Nov 10, 2003
950
0
76
I know there are a million threads like this, but it's time for me to make my own :p

I'm selling my 2 year old computer for $400, and buying a new computer. I was thinking Athlon 64 but I haven't really read any reviews on it yet.

Basically, I need to buy

CASE / PSU
CPU / HSF (retail actually preferred)
HDD
RAM
VIDEO CARD (I am an avid gamer, need something for Doom 3 :-D)
MOTHERBOARD

I have everything else: monitor keyboard mouse speakers dvdrw fdd

I'm setting my budget to about $1000 on those components. Can I have some suggestions? I will also post what I find I hope to get feedback on whether it's crap or not ;)
 

Raybdbomb

Senior member
Nov 10, 2003
950
0
76

Raybdbomb

Senior member
Nov 10, 2003
950
0
76
i see all these different people making the 9800 pro

does it matter who makes it?

sapphire, powercolor, msi, connect3d, high tech, tyan

all slight variations in price
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
27,270
16,120
136
Powercolor left a bad taste in my mouth. Sapphire or built by ATI are the best.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
I am gonna call this the Compromise Gaming Rig

Antec Sonata $99
A64 2800+ Retail $185
WD 80GB 8mb Cache $66
Chaintech VNF3-250 Nforce3 250 (Silver Award Winner at Anandtech) $92
Kingmax PC3500 512mb x 2 (CL 2.5) $88 x 2 = $176
GeForce 6800GT 256mb (Pre-Order Released June 28th) $399

Total Price: $1017

As you can see I made several compromises to come up with what I think is a good gaming rig at the moment. Instead of going for a faster cpu and low latency or higher speed RAM i figured the benefits of 100% faster graphics card are worth it to lose 10-20% of cpu and RAM performance. A64 2800+ is faster than AXP 3200+ so it is not a slow cpu at all even if it is clocked at 1.8ghz. The motherboard has AGP/PCI lock and with 9 multiplier and PC3500 RAM I think you should be able to reach 2.0ghz at around 222FSB and I can see the RAM being able to do that just fine. Dont let the CL2.5 disturb you as A64 has on-die memory controller and is much less susceptible to latency timings. The RAm should work at 2.5-3-3-6 at 400mhz at 2.7V without problems. I realize that your hard drive space might be a limiting factor as most people get around 120gb at least. Your other option could involve getting 2.4-2.8ghz P4 and overclocking them to 3.2-3.5ghz on something like Asus P4P800 or Abit IS7 for slightly cheaper; although I'd rather take this solution and overclock to A64 3000+ rating. You could also consider X800Pro if that is your thing but 6800GT is slightly faster in the latest reviews and overclocks to 400/1100 Ultra speeds without problems whether as X800Pro requires a Hard Mod.

A64 2800+ Review

Also consider that A64 3000+ costs about $38 more so your total price will be $1055 and obviously with a multiplier 10 if your RAM overclocks to say the same arbitrary value of 222FSB you'll be running at 2.2ghz and A64 3200+ speeds. So it is for you to decide whether or not extra $38 is worth it.

Just as a reference, here is A64 3000+ Review

Finally these old reviews don't use motherboards that are capable of AGP/PCI lock and the one i've provided you with is, so your overclocking results could be more in line with what was achieved Here on A64 3000+ with a CG stepping. Of course this would require you to run your RAM in Asynchronous mode. But if the chip gets that high on stock cooling, the benefit of running above 2.4ghz will overshadow some performance loss with asynchronous operation.

If you have any questions feel free to ask.
 

Raybdbomb

Senior member
Nov 10, 2003
950
0
76
wow wow

thanks, that was a really good reply

do you think it's worth it to buy the top of the line graphics card right when it comes out? i mean i'm sure i'd love it, but it seems like you could get something of like 90% the performance for about 50% of the price... but am i wrong?
 

Mavrick007

Diamond Member
Dec 19, 2001
3,198
0
0
Some people got in on a deal for that 6800GT card for $299, not $399, so I would perhaps wait a bit or look around more for a better price.
 

Raybdbomb

Senior member
Nov 10, 2003
950
0
76
i am very interested in such a deal... it brings it from not-doable to doable

i don't think i could spend more than $300 on a video card and live with myself ;)
 

TheBDB

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2002
3,176
0
0
Originally posted by: Markfw900
Powercolor left a bad taste in my mouth. Sapphire or built by ATI are the best.

You might get lucky like me though....my Powercolor 9700 NP arrived overclocked to almost Pro speeds. :confused:
 

Raybdbomb

Senior member
Nov 10, 2003
950
0
76
i think i like RussianSensation's setup... just need to get a cheaper card or a cheaper version of that card ;)
 

Raybdbomb

Senior member
Nov 10, 2003
950
0
76
yea...

and does it have the same specs besides that?

API Supported:
Direct 3D , OpenGL
RAMDAC Clock Speed:
400
Multiple Display Support:
Yes
Dual VGA Support:
Yes
Video Input:
No
Available Connectors:
DB15&DVI and S-Video
2D/3D Graphics Support:
Yes
Vendor:
NVIDIA
Video Memory Installed:
128MB 256-bit 2.8ns DDR
Compliant Standards:
Plug-N-Play
Interface Type:
AGP
Supported O/S:
Win9X Windows 2000 Windows XP
System Requirements:
AGP 3.0 Compliant



because i know for video cards, video memory isn't everything. it sometimes makes little difference from what i've read
 

jhurst

Senior member
Mar 29, 2004
663
0
0
Don't spend $400 on a video card and sacrifice performance everywhere else. The 2800+ 64 is a good choice.....cheaper and not much performance loss. I would get a GB of high quality RAM, like OCZ/Corsair/Kingston HyperX, maybe like PC3500 or 3700 to allow for OC'ing. A Radeon 9800pro is a very good choice for video cards, especially if you can get one less than $200. You will not notice any performance difference right now between a 6800GT and a 9800pro (unless your eyes can detect the difference between 100FPS and 150FPS, mine sure can't).
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: Raybdbomb
i think i like RussianSensation's setup... just need to get a cheaper card or a cheaper version of that card ;)

Good setup. I'd personally opt for the Ati 800pro on sale for $330 at outpost and bump the processor to a real live clawhammer 3200+ for $270. Remeber the clawhammer will always be at least 5% faster at same speeds. And you will not be able to overclock the Newcastle to the same high levels due to it's low mulitplier. I expect 2400Mhz from newcastle and 2500Mhz from clawhammer yielding about 15% more performance.
 

Raybdbomb

Senior member
Nov 10, 2003
950
0
76
i should like to see some comparisons between the x800, 6800gt and 9800 pro. i know the first two would whoop the last, but i want to see in numbers how badly :p
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
I'd like to point out several things.

Raybdbomb you brought a very good point about whether or not it is worth to purchase a $400 videocard at the moment. Personally, as jhurst pointed out getting a new generation videocard right now might not be the best choice because there are very few games that will take advantage of it and the prices are sitll high. Still, in games like Battlefield Vietnam, Halo, and Far Cry you will certainly notice a huge difference in performance as opposed to having a 9800Pro card. This of course brings a dilemma - do you hold out for another month or 2 to purchase your computer? do you purchase your computer now and use an old videocard while waiting for a good deal on the new generation of cards? OR you could maximize the $1000 spending now by buying a 9800Pro derivative card like This and then allocating the remaining ~$200 left over to a higher model processor and better quality RAM. Of course this also means that you will most likely upgrade to a next generation card within a year or so. No one can tell you for certain if by September (at which time STALKER, Doom3 and HL2 - all 3 most anticipated FPS will have come out (hopefully)) the 6800/x800pro cards will drop in price signficanlty or not. I am sure there will be price deals on them however. But I really do not want to recommend you to hold off your computer purchase until a price deal comes up because you could be waiting for a while; coupled with the fact that AMD does not intend to lower its cpu prices any time soon. So if you can wait 1 more month before August 3rd when Doom 3 comes out, and hope you catch a price deal on the new card during that period, you could do that.

Of course when I provided you with my components I tried to make a system that was a good value under $1000 this very minute. Deals like X800Pro for $330 are great and are something to consider as well. If you can still get this deal, you should probably go for it if you do not intend to wait.

I am going to disagree with Zebo and say that Newcastle core offers more overclocking room. All newcastle chips are already supposed to the CG stepping. Not only that but A64 3200+ 512kb newcastle comes clocked at 2.2ghz and considering that mhz increases are more important for gaming than cache size it should hold an advantage over A64 3200+ 2.0ghz 1mb off the bat. But it also has 200mhz extra clock speed so it should have a greater overclocking headroom, or at least just as good, not worse.

Comparisons between X800Pro/9800Pro/5950/6800 series:
*you could consider 9800 series very close to 5900 series performance when comparing old generation even though 9800 is faster in PS2.0 games

Review 1
Review 2
Review 3
Review 4
Only ATI cards

And this one might be most important for you:
Only X800Pro vs. 6800GT

Also you have to consider that Nvidia's drivers have significantly improved the situation of Nvidia cards in some games, especially Far Cry. So drivers after 61.11 should be used in reviews, but most of the ones I pointed out were often older drivers (except the last one x800 vs 6800gt)

Either way, like many said before, you can't go wrong with a new generation card as it is at least 100% faster no matter which one -- so the most important factor is the price.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
81
Originally posted by: Raybdbomb
How about this for a case:
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=11-129-127&depa=1
$99 shipped for ANTEC Life Style Series Black Case With 380W Power Supply, Model "SONATA"

How about this for a processor
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-424&depa=1
$223 shipped for AMD Athlon 64 3000+, 512KB L2 Cache 64-bit Processor - Retail

if those are good bang/buck that leaves $674 for motherboard, hdd, ram, videocard
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
27,270
16,120
136
Originally posted by: winslow428
I don't get what makes this case worth 90 bucks?

First the 380 watt QUIET highly rated PSU is work $60 or so by itself. Next, it is a very quiet case, with rubber insulators for the hard drives, and a quiet 120mm fan. Not to mention the Piano black finish, and the cute blue lights on the front.
 

Raybdbomb

Senior member
Nov 10, 2003
950
0
76
Originally posted by: RussianSensation
I'd like to point out several things.

Raybdbomb you brought a very good point about whether or not it is worth to purchase a $400 videocard at the moment. Personally, as jhurst pointed out getting a new generation videocard right now might not be the best choice because there are very few games that will take advantage of it and the prices are sitll high. Still, in games like Battlefield Vietnam, Halo, and Far Cry you will certainly notice a huge difference in performance as opposed to having a 9800Pro card. This of course brings a dilemma - do you hold out for another month or 2 to purchase your computer? do you purchase your computer now and use an old videocard while waiting for a good deal on the new generation of cards? OR you could maximize the $1000 spending now by buying a 9800Pro derivative card like This and then allocating the remaining ~$200 left over to a higher model processor and better quality RAM. Of course this also means that you will most likely upgrade to a next generation card within a year or so. No one can tell you for certain if by September (at which time STALKER, Doom3 and HL2 - all 3 most anticipated FPS will have come out (hopefully)) the 6800/x800pro cards will drop in price signficanlty or not. I am sure there will be price deals on them however. But I really do not want to recommend you to hold off your computer purchase until a price deal comes up because you could be waiting for a while; coupled with the fact that AMD does not intend to lower its cpu prices any time soon. So if you can wait 1 more month before August 3rd when Doom 3 comes out, and hope you catch a price deal on the new card during that period, you could do that.

Of course when I provided you with my components I tried to make a system that was a good value under $1000 this very minute. Deals like X800Pro for $330 are great and are something to consider as well. If you can still get this deal, you should probably go for it if you do not intend to wait.

I am going to disagree with Zebo and say that Newcastle core offers more overclocking room. All newcastle chips are already supposed to the CG stepping. Not only that but A64 3200+ 512kb newcastle comes clocked at 2.2ghz and considering that mhz increases are more important for gaming than cache size it should hold an advantage over A64 3200+ 2.0ghz 1mb off the bat. But it also has 200mhz extra clock speed so it should have a greater overclocking headroom, or at least just as good, not worse.

Comparisons between X800Pro/9800Pro/5950/6800 series:
*you could consider 9800 series very close to 5900 series performance when comparing old generation even though 9800 is faster in PS2.0 games

Review 1
Review 2
Review 3
Review 4
Only ATI cards

And this one might be most important for you:
Only X800Pro vs. 6800GT

Also you have to consider that Nvidia's drivers have significantly improved the situation of Nvidia cards in some games, especially Far Cry. So drivers after 61.11 should be used in reviews, but most of the ones I pointed out were often older drivers (except the last one x800 vs 6800gt)

Either way, like many said before, you can't go wrong with a new generation card as it is at least 100% faster no matter which one -- so the most important factor is the price.

looks like the verdict of that first one is
best 6800U, next 6800GT, then X800, then in way last 6800, almost similar to the 9800
the second source seems to extremely elevate the X800 XT, but that's going to be expensive...
as does the third
on the fourth is looks like it's a tossup between 6800U and x800XT with the X800 pro nowhere near...

It looks like the 6800GT and the X800 are pretty similar, so if the X800 is $330 somewhere I should like to see that...

X800 pro is $400 at outpost: http://shop4.outpost.com/product/4042522

where did you see that deal?
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
Originally posted by: Raybdbomb

X800 pro is $400 at outpost: http://shop4.outpost.com/product/4042522

where did you see that deal?

I personally didn't see that deal. I saw a deal on 6800Gt for $299 a while ago. You should ask people around for deals and I am sure someone will point you to one. That is the thing with deals, they come and go so fast that it is easy to miss them. Just be on the lookout and sometimes good things can be found In Hot Deals
 

imported_michaelpatrick33

Platinum Member
Jun 19, 2004
2,364
0
0
Originally posted by: RussianSensation
I am gonna call this the Compromise Gaming Rig

Antec Sonata $99
A64 2800+ Retail $185
WD 80GB 8mb Cache $66
Chaintech VNF3-250 Nforce3 250 (Silver Award Winner at Anandtech) $92
Kingmax PC3500 512mb x 2 (CL 2.5) $88 x 2 = $176
GeForce 6800GT 256mb (Pre-Order Released June 28th) $399

Total Price: $1017

As you can see I made several compromises to come up with what I think is a good gaming rig at the moment. Instead of going for a faster cpu and low latency or higher speed RAM i figured the benefits of 100% faster graphics card are worth it to lose 10-20% of cpu and RAM performance. A64 2800+ is faster than AXP 3200+ so it is not a slow cpu at all even if it is clocked at 1.8ghz. The motherboard has AGP/PCI lock and with 9 multiplier and PC3500 RAM I think you should be able to reach 2.0ghz at around 222FSB and I can see the RAM being able to do that just fine. Dont let the CL2.5 disturb you as A64 has on-die memory controller and is much less susceptible to latency timings. The RAm should work at 2.5-3-3-6 at 400mhz at 2.7V without problems. I realize that your hard drive space might be a limiting factor as most people get around 120gb at least. Your other option could involve getting 2.4-2.8ghz P4 and overclocking them to 3.2-3.5ghz on something like Asus P4P800 or Abit IS7 for slightly cheaper; although I'd rather take this solution and overclock to A64 3000+ rating. You could also consider X800Pro if that is your thing but 6800GT is slightly faster in the latest reviews and overclocks to 400/1100 Ultra speeds without problems whether as X800Pro requires a Hard Mod.

A64 2800+ Review

Also consider that A64 3000+ costs about $38 more so your total price will be $1055 and obviously with a multiplier 10 if your RAM overclocks to say the same arbitrary value of 222FSB you'll be running at 2.2ghz and A64 3200+ speeds. So it is for you to decide whether or not extra $38 is worth it.

Just as a reference, here is A64 3000+ Review

Finally these old reviews don't use motherboards that are capable of AGP/PCI lock and the one i've provided you with is, so your overclocking results could be more in line with what was achieved Here on A64 3000+ with a CG stepping. Of course this would require you to run your RAM in Asynchronous mode. But if the chip gets that high on stock cooling, the benefit of running above 2.4ghz will overshadow some performance loss with asynchronous operation.

If you have any questions feel free to ask.


Just one note: The AMD processors are very latency sensitive. They thrive on low latency (not higher bandwidth like the P4's