There are 180,000 undervotes in Florida, no way in hell can they count all that in 4 days. Not only that, Id say 65% of that is from areas were Bush won. Bush could still win the what 5th or 6th rerecount. However, he has a strong case for the 11th court of appeals and the USSC. Even if the Gore supporters don't think so. Why? Because the FSC has clearly wrote law from the bench twice now, you can't say they haven't if you do you have read either opinion. The USSC didn't want a 5-4 ruling, and sent the case back to the FSC, they haven't cleared the Nov 19 case up yet, and they wrote law again(don't say they didn't, they clearly did).
The dissents clearly mentioned that the majority basically made up law on the fly and will get beaten down by the USSC.
Anyone else notice that the abbreviation for the court is sometimes written "SCOFLA"? Pretty close to "scoflaw", no?
Anyone else notice that the abbreviation for the court is sometimes written "SCOFLA"? Pretty close to "scoflaw", no?
<< There are 180,000 undervotes in Florida, no way in hell can they count all that in 4 days. >>
You could if you had enough counters....
And CNN reported estimate was lower 43,000.
Here's a clip of SCOFLA Chief Justice Wells dissent:
I want to make it clear at the outset of my separate opinion that I do not question the good faith or honorable intentions of my colleagues in the majority. However, I could not more strongly disagree with their decision to reverse the trial court and prolong this judicial process. I also believe that the majority?s decision cannot withstand the scrutiny which will certainly immediately follow under the United States Constitution.
My succinct conclusion is that the majority?s decision to return this case to the circuit court for a count of the under-votes from either Miami-Dade County or all counties has no foundation in the law of Florida as it existed on November 7, 2000, or at any time until the issuance of this opinion. The majority returns the case to the circuit court for this partial recount of under-votes on the basis of unknown or, at best, ambiguous standards with authority to obtain help from others, the credentials, qualifications, and objectivity of whom are totally unknown. That is but a first glance at the imponderable problems the majority creates.
(Emphasis added. source, PDF doc.)
It's bullchit! The USSC is gonna POUND them into the Everglades for this!!!
[added source link and fixed pagination of quote]
I want to make it clear at the outset of my separate opinion that I do not question the good faith or honorable intentions of my colleagues in the majority. However, I could not more strongly disagree with their decision to reverse the trial court and prolong this judicial process. I also believe that the majority?s decision cannot withstand the scrutiny which will certainly immediately follow under the United States Constitution.
My succinct conclusion is that the majority?s decision to return this case to the circuit court for a count of the under-votes from either Miami-Dade County or all counties has no foundation in the law of Florida as it existed on November 7, 2000, or at any time until the issuance of this opinion. The majority returns the case to the circuit court for this partial recount of under-votes on the basis of unknown or, at best, ambiguous standards with authority to obtain help from others, the credentials, qualifications, and objectivity of whom are totally unknown. That is but a first glance at the imponderable problems the majority creates.
(Emphasis added. source, PDF doc.)
It's bullchit! The USSC is gonna POUND them into the Everglades for this!!!
[added source link and fixed pagination of quote]
<< In this day and age, he'll probably get shot at a few times.... >>
Expect the secret service to contact you very soon. Full cavity searches all around
THe undervotes are well within the % of people that dont vote as protest...
i guess these people will be voting after all
i guess these people will be voting after all
True dat. People who didn't like EITHER of their choices may now find themselves voting for Gore.
Makes you proud to be an American, eh?
Makes you proud to be an American, eh?
well, you know whoever wins this election is supposed to die in office (the 'X0-year election curse). every president who was elected into office in a year ending in "0" has died in office, except for Reagan, who was shot but didn't quite die.
so maybe gore will win but get assassinated
so maybe gore will win but get assassinated
<< i guess these people will be voting after all >>
I guess not.....the undervotes won't be counted for someone unless it meets the criteria set by the FLORIDA LEGISLATURE....
Ok this is really telling. From the dissenting opinion...
<< I conclude that this not only changes a rule after November 7, 2000, but it also changes a rule this court made on November 26, 2000 >>
Hmmmm notice "but it also changes a rule this court MADE on November 26, 2000"
<< I conclude that this not only changes a rule after November 7, 2000, but it also changes a rule this court made on November 26, 2000 >>
Hmmmm notice "but it also changes a rule this court MADE on November 26, 2000"
Don't worry, Bush will win, somehow. If the Florida Legislature doesn't pull it out for him, Congress will. Bush lost the popular vote, he lost the Florida vote, but he will steal the election.
I'm reminded of that classic looney tunes skit with Daffy, Bugs, and Elmer Fudd on the hunting trip. (actual words withheld, "No Mr. SS Man I meant the one where they go to Little Red Riding Hoods house!"
No one know who won the popular vote, many states did not count absentee votes when there was no possibility of them affecting the outcome.
Gov. Bush has won the election in Florida by the laws and rules of the election on Nov. 7th. The count has been certified according to those laws.
You can not steal what you have legally won.
Gore by having people "devine" voter intent would be the one to steal the election.
I have this mental impression of Johnny Carson in his Carmike outfit holding the envelope up to his turban and saying "Gore". Now imagine the county election boards doing the same thing. That's how you steal an election.
Gov. Bush has won the election in Florida by the laws and rules of the election on Nov. 7th. The count has been certified according to those laws.
You can not steal what you have legally won.
Gore by having people "devine" voter intent would be the one to steal the election.
I have this mental impression of Johnny Carson in his Carmike outfit holding the envelope up to his turban and saying "Gore". Now imagine the county election boards doing the same thing. That's how you steal an election.
Etech:
What state didn't count absentee ballots? I find that hard to believe. Have you been listening to Jerry Falwell again?
What state didn't count absentee ballots? I find that hard to believe. Have you been listening to Jerry Falwell again?
I'm extremely Proud to be an American DefNef. I'm not to proud that you and others like you are ones yourselves but that still doesn't take away the Pride I feel for my Country, even if Curious George stumbles his way into the White House
HOW???
How can you be proud of this country when all you do is put down everyone within it?
Do you think that the US is only made up of Laws and Land? People make it a country too, So if you can't have respect for more then 1 person in it (Yourself) Then WTF are you talkin about?
HOW???
How can you be proud of this country when all you do is put down everyone within it?
Do you think that the US is only made up of Laws and Land? People make it a country too, So if you can't have respect for more then 1 person in it (Yourself) Then WTF are you talkin about?
Voting instructions
Please read the voting instructions. If the voters did not follow the instructions then it is not a valid vote. It clearly says it is the responsibility of the voter to insure that the holes are completely punched and there are no chads hanging on the back of the ballot. The machine counts were correct.
Chess9
"Have you been listening to Jerry Falwell again? "
I am sure that that statement somehow has contributed to this discussion and is not just more inane blathering from you.
Please read the voting instructions. If the voters did not follow the instructions then it is not a valid vote. It clearly says it is the responsibility of the voter to insure that the holes are completely punched and there are no chads hanging on the back of the ballot. The machine counts were correct.
Chess9
"Have you been listening to Jerry Falwell again? "
I am sure that that statement somehow has contributed to this discussion and is not just more inane blathering from you.
Some people hear need to pull their heads out of their asses and listen to all the facts, not just the bush team.
Michael
Elite member
- Nov 19, 1999
- 5,435
- 234
- 106
The USA is a country that is fortunate to have the benefit of the rule of law. The FSC gave a majority opinion on what they think the law of Florida says. That is their job and they were asked to render an opinion. It is obvious that it was not a popular opinion as can be seen by the split vote and the scatheing dissent written in the opinion.
Gore had a right to contest the election and a right of appeal.
The FSC Justices are subject to election after they are appointed.
Bush has the right to appeal to the US Supreme Court.
The Florida Leglislature has the right to appoint their own slate of electors.
Congress has a right to vote on the acceptability of any Electors presented to them.
Even if all the undervote is "counted", there is no guarantee that Gore will win. Most of the heavily Democrat areas are counted already. Of course, many of the Republican areas use optical scanners and the udervote probably really is an undervote.
I also completely disagree with the reasoning of the FSC. First, the attacked a Circuit Court judges finding of fact. That is almost never done and they did not explain their reasoning well.
Gore only contested a few counties. The FSC affirmed his ruling on PBC and Nassau Counties. The very naive statisical analysis (multiplying the current results by five) of Miami-Dade was discredited in the testimony. Therefore, the overall results of the election are not in doubt and the Circuit Court judge should have been upheld.
Michael
Gore had a right to contest the election and a right of appeal.
The FSC Justices are subject to election after they are appointed.
Bush has the right to appeal to the US Supreme Court.
The Florida Leglislature has the right to appoint their own slate of electors.
Congress has a right to vote on the acceptability of any Electors presented to them.
Even if all the undervote is "counted", there is no guarantee that Gore will win. Most of the heavily Democrat areas are counted already. Of course, many of the Republican areas use optical scanners and the udervote probably really is an undervote.
I also completely disagree with the reasoning of the FSC. First, the attacked a Circuit Court judges finding of fact. That is almost never done and they did not explain their reasoning well.
Gore only contested a few counties. The FSC affirmed his ruling on PBC and Nassau Counties. The very naive statisical analysis (multiplying the current results by five) of Miami-Dade was discredited in the testimony. Therefore, the overall results of the election are not in doubt and the Circuit Court judge should have been upheld.
Michael
XMan
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 12,513
- 49
- 91
Chess9 -
There are over a million absentee ballots in California that were not counted, and will not be counted because, according to the state, "they would not change the results of the election."
Au contraire - those votes just might give Bush the popular vote, which would pretty much end Mr. Gore's little party, wouldn't it????
There are over a million absentee ballots in California that were not counted, and will not be counted because, according to the state, "they would not change the results of the election."
Au contraire - those votes just might give Bush the popular vote, which would pretty much end Mr. Gore's little party, wouldn't it????
Michael
Elite member
- Nov 19, 1999
- 5,435
- 234
- 106
I keep reading on the forum that California is not counting their absentee ballots.
Please explain this:
California elections
Michael
Please explain this:
California elections
Michael
Forget about the California ballots. It's all academic now.
What about the military ballots that Gore had excluded to protect his narrow loss?!?!?!?
It's obvious that those votes would have put Bush too far ahead for Gore vote scammers to fake up enough votes to win.
What about the military ballots that Gore had excluded to protect his narrow loss?!?!?!?
It's obvious that those votes would have put Bush too far ahead for Gore vote scammers to fake up enough votes to win.
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