Gore is a good man.

[RobCur]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031110/ap_on_re_us/gore_civil_liberties&cid=519&ncid=716

 

[MonstaThrilla]

The speech is on C-SPAN right now. Its not as much of an attack piece on Bush as the article would have you to believe, rather on what the federal government as a whole needs to do but hasn't done to protect us.

 

[daniel1113]

"They have taken us much farther down the road toward an intrusive, 'big brother'-style government ? toward the dangers prophesied by George Orwell in his book '1984' ? than anyone ever thought would be possible in the United States of America," Gore charged in a speech.

Oh, really?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

"They have taken us much farther down the road toward an intrusive, 'big brother'-style government ? toward the dangers prophesied by George Orwell in his book '1984' ? than anyone ever thought would be possible in the United States of America," Gore charged in a speech.

Oh, really?

They haven't?

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: daniel1113

"They have taken us much farther down the road toward an intrusive, 'big brother'-style government ? toward the dangers prophesied by George Orwell in his book '1984' ? than anyone ever thought would be possible in the United States of America," Gore charged in a speech.

Oh, really?

They haven't?

don't question your govt.

they are WATCHING you

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

"They have taken us much farther down the road toward an intrusive, 'big brother'-style government ? toward the dangers prophesied by George Orwell in his book '1984' ? than anyone ever thought would be possible in the United States of America," Gore charged in a speech.

Oh, really?

Maybe he should have done something other than claim credit for creating the internet while he was in office.

 

[Genesys]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

"They have taken us much farther down the road toward an intrusive, 'big brother'-style government ? toward the dangers prophesied by George Orwell in his book '1984' ? than anyone ever thought would be possible in the United States of America," Gore charged in a speech.

Oh, really?

exactly. if youre not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.

 

[shuan24]

Originally posted by: Genesys

Originally posted by: daniel1113

"They have taken us much farther down the road toward an intrusive, 'big brother'-style government ? toward the dangers prophesied by George Orwell in his book '1984' ? than anyone ever thought would be possible in the United States of America," Gore charged in a speech.

Oh, really?

exactly. if youre not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.

Uh, wrong in WHO's eyes?

 

[Gaard]

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: daniel1113

"They have taken us much farther down the road toward an intrusive, 'big brother'-style government ? toward the dangers prophesied by George Orwell in his book '1984' ? than anyone ever thought would be possible in the United States of America," Gore charged in a speech.

Oh, really?

Maybe he should have done something other than claim credit for creating the internet while he was in office.

Do you really believe this, Commander? And if so, why?

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: shuan24

Originally posted by: Genesys

Originally posted by: daniel1113

"They have taken us much farther down the road toward an intrusive, 'big brother'-style government ? toward the dangers prophesied by George Orwell in his book '1984' ? than anyone ever thought would be possible in the United States of America," Gore charged in a speech.

Oh, really?

exactly. if youre not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.

Uh, wrong in WHO's eyes?

Um, American law. What the hell are you implying...that Ashcroft will arrest you for being a Niners fan?

 

[Gravity]

He might be a good man but he isn't electable. Too bad he didn't take his own advice during the 8 years he and BC had in office.

 

[DanceMan]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: shuan24

Originally posted by: Genesys

Originally posted by: daniel1113

"They have taken us much farther down the road toward an intrusive, 'big brother'-style government ? toward the dangers prophesied by George Orwell in his book '1984' ? than anyone ever thought would be possible in the United States of America," Gore charged in a speech.

Oh, really?

exactly. if youre not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.

Uh, wrong in WHO's eyes?

Um, American law. What the hell are you implying...that Ashcroft will arrest you for being a Niners fan?

Well, you should be arrested for being a Niners fan, but I digress...

But, you can be investigated by the FBI if you decide to read a book on the Taliban, and you can be denied boarding a plane if you are put on the list of 'unapproved persons',even if you belong to groups that are not associated with terrorist activities, and you can be arrested for peacefully protesting the President. All of these cases have occured.

DanceMan

 

[privatebreyer]

This has got to be the biggest fear-mongering campaign in the history of the world.

Oh no they can read your emails...AAHHHHH!
Oh no they can see what books you read... AAHHHH!
Oh no they can tap your phones..... AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!

 

[Bleep]

exactly. if youre not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.

what a crock!! How about a cop stops you on the street and wants to look in your wallet, you would let him because you are doing nothing wrong and have nothing to hide, goverment comes to your house and wants to search, let them in you have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide. Cop stops you for a tail light out let him search your person and your car because you have nothing to hide and have done nothing wrong. You need to rethink this statement. This is the statement all despots say for their intrusion into your private life. At the same time complaining about the RIAA finding out who you are by your ISP.

Bleep

 

[Maetryx]

RobCur, the entire speech is available at http://www.moveon.org/gore/speech.html. You might want to add it to the original post. The speech is rather convincing. He repeats the comparison of the "War on Terror" to the "War on Drugs"... an endless struggle. But the disturbing thing is he shows that throughout our history as a nation, we have suspended freedoms in favor of security, and then basically regretted and reversed those policies. Actually, let me quote Al Gore instead of paraphrase:

Throughout American history, what we now call Civil Liberties have often been abused and limited during times of war and perceived threats to security. The best known instances include the Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798-1800, the brief suspension of habeas corpus during the Civil War, the extreme abuses during World War I and the notorious Red Scare and Palmer Raids immediately after the war, the shameful internment of Japanese-Americans during World War II, and the excesses of the FBI and CIA during the Vietnam War and social turmoil of the late 1960s and early 1970s.

But in each of these cases, the nation has recovered its equilibrium when the war ended and absorbed the lessons learned in a recurring cycle of excess and regret.

There are reasons for concern this time around that what we are experiencing may no longer be the first half of a recurring cycle but rather, the beginning of something new. For one thing, 2this war is predicted by the administration to ?last for the rest of our lives.? Others have expressed the view that over time it will begin to resemble the ?war? against drugs ? that is, that it will become a more or less permanent struggle that occupies a significant part of our law enforcement and security agenda from now on. If that is the case, then when ? if ever -- does this encroachment on our freedoms die a natural death?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Bleep

exactly. if youre not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.

what a crock!! How about a cop stops you on the street and wants to look in your wallet, you would let him because you are doing nothing wrong and have nothing to hide, goverment comes to your house and wants to search, let them in you have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide. Cop stops you for a tail light out let him search your person and your car because you have nothing to hide and have done nothing wrong. You need to rethink this statement. This is the statement all despots say for their intrusion into your private life. At the same time complaining about the RIAA finding out who you are by your ISP.

Bleep

I agree.

I think alot of this Patriot Act hubub is just fear-mongering but there are some things I have issues with. Mainly the fact that it's a slippery slope thing. The intent and current use may be "good" but who's to say it won't be abused and misused in the future?

Someone mentioned the Library stuff - this is an example of fear-mongering. This information was available to courts before the Patriot act. Now again - it's not that I am for them having more access - it's just that they had access before - so this example of "losing a civil liberty" is BS.

If I had a say - I'd vote to repeal it in part or vote to have it re-written to protect citizens rights above all else. It's sad that there wasn't more debate on this piece of legislation when it first was up for a vote.

CkG

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: Bleep

exactly. if youre not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.

what a crock!! How about a cop stops you on the street and wants to look in your wallet, you would let him because you are doing nothing wrong and have nothing to hide, goverment comes to your house and wants to search, let them in you have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide. Cop stops you for a tail light out let him search your person and your car because you have nothing to hide and have done nothing wrong. You need to rethink this statement. This is the statement all despots say for their intrusion into your private life. At the same time complaining about the RIAA finding out who you are by your ISP.

Bleep

I agree.

I think alot of this Patriot Act hubub is just fear-mongering but there are some things I have issues with. Mainly the fact that it's a slippery slope thing. The intent and current use may be "good" but who's to say it won't be abused and misused in the future?

Someone mentioned the Library stuff - this is an example of fear-mongering. This information was available to courts before the Patriot act. Now again - it's not that I am for them having more access - it's just that they had access before - so this example of "losing a civil liberty" is BS.

If I had a say - I'd vote to repeal it in part or vote to have it re-written to protect citizens rights above all else. It's sad that there wasn't more debate on this piece of legislation when it first was up for a vote.

CkG

The reason it wasn't is because the Administration wrapped a flag around it (the Partiot Act??) and paraded it as necessary for the security of our homeland..much like they did when they pushed for the Invasion of Iraq. Question them about it and you would have your own patriotism questioned.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
The reason it wasn't is because the Administration wrapped a flag around it (the Partiot Act??) and paraded it as necessary for the security of our homeland..much like they did when they pushed for the Invasion of Iraq. Question them about it and you would have your own patriotism questioned.

So that excuses the people who are elected to represent us? I don't give a rats ass what excuse you allow them - they didn't do their job - PERIOD. Yes the same argument can be made against the Administration - and like I said - I don't fully support this legislation. The people who had a chance to stop it or atleast question it(not to mention READ IT!) - didn't. Just like with the Iraq war - they allowed it to happen - and now they whine about it. If they would have done their job we wouldn't be discussing this right now becase these "civil liberty" questions would have been addressed and modified. I give no pass to ANY of our elected officials when they say "we were duped" or "I didn't know" - its their job to be in the know - and to NOT be duped.

Again - I think this legislation has problems and needs to be fixed, but there is alot of fear-mongering and political jockeying that is inexcusable(yes on both sides)

CkG

 

[Red Dawn]

So that excuses the people who are elected to represent us?

No not at all. Cowardice is not an excuse, just a reason.

 

[UCSDHappyAsian]

He is a good man.. but very unlucky

 

[privatebreyer]

The thing people seem to fear most is that they will somehow be tagged for terrorist investigations, and that failing to find that, the FBI will get you on all sorts of little things like installing norton on more than one pc, or something totally unrelated to terrorism.

The question is are you to seperate crimes? Is a crime not a crime? If they pick up that you plan to murder your neighboor for running over your cat, is it not there respondibility to step in?

It is impossible to decide were to draw the line. At the point where you threatened national security? At violent crime?

You want the FBI to get the bad guys, but the FBI can never tell if they got all the bad guys enless they look at everyone.

 

[Mean MrMustard]

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: daniel1113

"They have taken us much farther down the road toward an intrusive, 'big brother'-style government ? toward the dangers prophesied by George Orwell in his book '1984' ? than anyone ever thought would be possible in the United States of America," Gore charged in a speech.

Oh, really?

Maybe he should have done something other than claim credit for creating the internet while he was in office.

When did he claim to create the internet? I must have missed that memo.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

So that excuses the people who are elected to represent us?

No not at all. Cowardice is not an excuse, just a reason.

But congressional failure also doesn't excuse Bush's signing the patriot act and his DOJ pushing it through.

 

[IGBT]

Couldn't even win his home state..if the people at home don't want ya.......

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: ELP

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: daniel1113

"They have taken us much farther down the road toward an intrusive, 'big brother'-style government ? toward the dangers prophesied by George Orwell in his book '1984' ? than anyone ever thought would be possible in the United States of America," Gore charged in a speech.

Oh, really?

Maybe he should have done something other than claim credit for creating the internet while he was in office.

When did he claim to create the internet? I must have missed that memo.

XZeroII's just mindlessly repeating some schlop he heard on some half-assed Republican joke site. I would love for him to reproduce the exact quote by Gore.