GOP takes tough stand on saving Bush tax cuts

[jackace]

Of course you will, that's because you don't understand how the world works or how evidence works.

I on the other hand, already took a minute and examined median engineering incomes in Kentucky, and I already know that you were, yet again, completely wrong. There are plenty of sources that you could check. I was trying to get you to put even a tiny amount of work into your understanding of the world, and search out those numbers yourself. What's funny is that you complained about AVERAGE salaries artificially bringing down the numbers when they actually bring them up.

If you're anywhere nearly as horrible at engineering as you are at estimating engineering salaries, please tell me what products you've worked on so that I can put on a hazmat suit before using them.

Spidey, do you want people to stop making fun of you? To have opinions based in reality?

Work.

Wow I just looked at salary.com to see what the salaries looked like in Louisville KY for engineers and his numbers are about double the median reported on there. On top of that salary.com is known to be a little on the high side according to most HR information I have seen.

 

[jackace]

Understand this, the Democrats were voted out of office because the majority of Americans felt they couldn't or wouldn't do the right things to get the economy moving in the right direction.

The majority of American's would also fail a basic Econ 101 test, so...

 

[BoberFett]

We need to stop focusing on the top 2% and start focusing on the top 0.05%. Lumping a 250-thousandaire in with 180 millionaires (annual family income I'm talking about) at the same top marginal bracket is a fvcking joke. We need to establish at least 5 additional higher marginal brackets at the 750k, 1 mil, 1.25 mil, 3 mil, and 5 mil+ mark. 250k annual family income in NJ or NY is middle/upper-middle class even though it may be a fortune elsewhere in the country. We also need a phase out of the 15% cap gains treatment on investment income beyond a certain point of annual family income to ensure the idle rich living off their massive investment capital actually pay a decent amount of tax (i.e 25-35%) instead of 15% or less.

We also need to cut corporate taxes to 25% while closing all the damned loopholes and get that money held in overseas subsidiaries brought back to the U.S.

I've talked about all this before...and I'll keep talking about it. Because focusing on the top 2% is patently unfair when family income levels are so massively different from the top 2% to the top 0.01%. Let's focus our attention on the grifters instead of high cost of living NY, NJ, and CA's middle and upper middle class.

Pfffft, you're never going to get anywhere with that kind of common sense.

I now return you to your previously scheduled P&N whine-fest.

Rabble, rabble, rabble! Some people have more than me! Raise their taxes! Rabble, rabble, rabble!

 

[Slew Foot]

We need to stop focusing on the top 2% and start focusing on the top 0.05%. Lumping a 250-thousandaire in with 180 millionaires (annual family income I'm talking about) at the same top marginal bracket is a fvcking joke. We need to establish at least 5 additional higher marginal brackets at the 750k, 1 mil, 1.25 mil, 3 mil, and 5 mil+ mark. 250k annual family income in NJ or NY is middle/upper-middle class even though it may be a fortune elsewhere in the country. We also need a phase out of the 15% cap gains treatment on investment income beyond a certain point of annual family income to ensure the idle rich living off their massive investment capital actually pay a decent amount of tax (i.e 25-35%) instead of 15% or less.

We also need to cut corporate taxes to 25% while closing all the damned loopholes and get that money held in overseas subsidiaries brought back to the U.S.

I've talked about all this before...and I'll keep talking about it. Because focusing on the top 2% is patently unfair when family income levels are so massively different from the top 2% to the top 0.01%. Let's focus our attention on the grifters instead of high cost of living NY, NJ, and CA's middle and upper middle class.

But think of all those EVIL lawyers and pharmacists aggregating wealth and making it hard for Joe Jizzmopper to buy his Ferrari!

You libertards hate the bankers so much, add a banker tax.

 

[IBMer]

You notice that its only the republicans that make up the dumb names like Libertards and Obummer and such?

 

[fskimospy]

We need to stop focusing on the top 2% and start focusing on the top 0.05%. Lumping a 250-thousandaire in with 180 millionaires (annual family income I'm talking about) at the same top marginal bracket is a fvcking joke. We need to establish at least 5 additional higher marginal brackets at the 750k, 1 mil, 1.25 mil, 3 mil, and 5 mil+ mark. 250k annual family income in NJ or NY is middle/upper-middle class even though it may be a fortune elsewhere in the country. We also need a phase out of the 15% cap gains treatment on investment income beyond a certain point of annual family income to ensure the idle rich living off their massive investment capital actually pay a decent amount of tax (i.e 25-35%) instead of 15% or less.

We also need to cut corporate taxes to 25% while closing all the damned loopholes and get that money held in overseas subsidiaries brought back to the U.S.

I've talked about all this before...and I'll keep talking about it. Because focusing on the top 2% is patently unfair when family income levels are so massively different from the top 2% to the top 0.01%. Let's focus our attention on the grifters instead of high cost of living NY, NJ, and CA's middle and upper middle class.

But the people making $250,000 are barely affected at all by a tax increase. Remember, only the portion of their income that goes over $250,000 is taxed more. So, if they make $251,000, they pay more than they pay now on only $1,000 of their salary. Those you are trying to protect are not being hurt in a significant way here.

Furthermore, I lived in California for almost 10 years and now I live in NYC. Making $250,000 means you are rich. Like, seriously rich. Not only do I know this from my personal experience, but I know this from census data.

Here is NYC income demographics from wiki:

New York City Median Income in 2007

Bronx $34,156
Brooklyn $41,406
Manhattan $64,217
Queens $53,171
Staten Island $66,985
New York City $48,631

This means that as compared to the median New Yorker, someone affected by this tax is taxed at a higher rate only on the dollars he makes in excess of 500% of the median salary in one of the wealthiest cities on Earth. Even if you count Manhattan (as who really lives on Staten Island anyway), you're still talking almost 400% of the median. Yes, there are cost of living differences in the US, but no matter where you live if you are making $250,000, you are quite wealthy.

Now I do agree that we should treat the truly fabulously wealthy differently than the merely pedestrianly wealthy, but we need to calibrate our expectations with reality.

 

[fskimospy]

Wow I just looked at salary.com to see what the salaries looked like in Louisville KY for engineers and his numbers are about double the median reported on there. On top of that salary.com is known to be a little on the high side according to most HR information I have seen.

Yeap. The guy doesn't care about facts though, he needs to have his ideology validated. Okay, and he's probably got some sort of personality disorder.

 

[ebaycj]

Isn't that how 10 year olds work?

I don't know. But what I do know is: Spidey would certainly like it if 10 year olds were allowed to work. Child slave labor = Capitalist Utopia.

 

[manimal]

But the people making $250,000 are barely affected at all by a tax increase. Remember, only the portion of their income that goes over $250,000 is taxed more. So, if they make $251,000, they pay more than they pay now on only $1,000 of their salary. Those you are trying to protect are not being hurt in a significant way here.

Furthermore, I lived in California for almost 10 years and now I live in NYC. Making $250,000 means you are rich. Like, seriously rich. Not only do I know this from my personal experience, but I know this from census data.

Here is NYC income demographics from wiki:

New York City Median Income in 2007

Bronx $34,156
Brooklyn $41,406
Manhattan $64,217
Queens $53,171
Staten Island $66,985
New York City $48,631

This means that as compared to the median New Yorker, someone affected by this tax is taxed at a higher rate only on the dollars he makes in excess of 500% of the median salary in one of the wealthiest cities on Earth. Even if you count Manhattan (as who really lives on Staten Island anyway), you're still talking almost 400% of the median. Yes, there are cost of living differences in the US, but no matter where you live if you are making $250,000, you are quite wealthy.

Now I do agree that we should treat the truly fabulously wealthy differently than the merely pedestrianly wealthy, but we need to calibrate our expectations with reality.

but but three people that live on my block make 300k a year so everybody must make 300k a year.....

/end sarcasm...


My question to the people reading this thread is this..

What are people making over 250k doing with their cash flow right now? creating jobs?

 

[ModestGamer]

There is no evidence whatsoever that a decrease in marginal tax rates for the top 2% leads to economic growth. Are you using a different metric to determine job creation that the evidence shows a positive correlation for?

actually what works best is increasing tax rates on those earners and giving them more decudtions. Basically they are rich becuase they hoard the wealth.

 

[ebaycj]

But the people making $250,000 are barely affected at all by a tax increase. Remember, only the portion of their income that goes over $250,000 is taxed more. So, if they make $251,000, they pay more than they pay now on only $1,000 of their salary. Those you are trying to protect are not being hurt in a significant way here.

Furthermore, I lived in California for almost 10 years and now I live in NYC. Making $250,000 means you are rich. Like, seriously rich. Not only do I know this from my personal experience, but I know this from census data.

Here is NYC income demographics from wiki:

New York City Median Income in 2007

Bronx $34,156
Brooklyn $41,406
Manhattan $64,217
Queens $53,171
Staten Island $66,985
New York City $48,631

This means that as compared to the median New Yorker, someone affected by this tax is taxed at a higher rate only on the dollars he makes in excess of 500% of the median salary in one of the wealthiest cities on Earth. Even if you count Manhattan (as who really lives on Staten Island anyway), you're still talking almost 400% of the median. Yes, there are cost of living differences in the US, but no matter where you live if you are making $250,000, you are quite wealthy.

Now I do agree that we should treat the truly fabulously wealthy differently than the merely pedestrianly wealthy, but we need to calibrate our expectations with reality.

This. Especially the bolded part.

 

[BoberFett]

You notice that its only the republicans that make up the dumb names like Libertards and Obummer and such?

You're right, none of the stupid lefties around here ever made up stupid names for Bush...

 

[Zebo]

Continued reductions in Federal taxes won't bring us happiness.

First of all we need more tax payers, that means jobs. Hard to do when Americans have no money to spend. Not to mention any smart investment in productive capital, whether in the form of new R&D and factories that create jobs is done where people will work tiwce as hard for a 20th as much aka China and india not USA. But go Ahead give them their 15% capital gains taxes while they offshore and bet against you. Not very bright.

Funny when the 90s began with tax hikes in 90 and 93 that were forecast to cause recession... we got steady growth.

Even funnier in the bad old days of big government under the socialists FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, JFK, LBJ, Nixon with public investment in R&D or investments in failing bridges and water systems with a whopping 92% tax on Gains and income over 3.7 million in today's dollars everyone was pretty happy.

I should mention Middle class taxes have gone up while those at the top went from 92% to 15% and 36% respectively. Meet me halfway and close borders to slave trade and I'll guarantee 100% employment, even for all the illegals, and balanced budget. History proves it.

Continue as we go, if "sudden stop" does not happen or dollar collapse, which are both basically apocalyptic hell. We'll be like any other low tax paradise, they have names like Chad, Haiti, Bolivia a few billionaires to be sure but everyone else in misery and destitution.

But the Jobs will come back then, finally. When you're over the barrel and don't have food you'll take anything! Sorta like Chinese or Indians. Problem is bottom up prosperity will be crushed by those who own everything. I wonder if Constitution will prohibit employer from killing you for smuggling iPhone out? It better not get in the way or China is still a better place to do Business.

 

[jackace]

The bottom 98% can't aggregate wealth because the top 2% doesn't let any of it go.

Just wanted to quote this because it's so true.

 

[IBMer]

You're right, none of the stupid lefties around here ever made up stupid names for Bush...

But Booosch?

haha jk

 

[Zebo]

Because focusing on the top 2% is patently unfair

Fair? What's fair got to do with economics? Matter a fact what's fair got to do with anything? When you use terms "works" and "does not work" you'll begin to appreciate America that was. How empires are built. How smart people are breed. How civility and order was maintained.

Besides, no one truly makes 100 percent of his money by himself, you're not Robinson Crusoe, you and everyone else depends on a wide array of government services to support the market where you earn money. Some more than others. Perpetual patents, no bid contracts, etc is pretty sweet. If you're rich it's easy to get more rich by gaming the very system that protected you in the first place. Oldest story in history. Money begets more money. Until one day, and it's close, a few control everything even the govt. Usually when that happens bloody revolutions were result. There are mechanisms to prevent that - a unionized work force, progressive taxation et al. Basically you're kicking down a bit to the bus boy so he still cleans your tables and goes to college and comes to work for you designing microprocessors. Try and do that where they don't invest in people. Intel is not in Haiti.

 

[Hacp]

But the people making $250,000 are barely affected at all by a tax increase.

If people making 250,000 are barely affected, they should all give me 1 dollar. I heard there are 8 million millionaires in the US. IF every one of those gave me a 1 dollar, I would be a millionaire myself!

 

[LegendKiller]

If people making 250,000 are barely affected, they should all give me 1 dollar. I heard there are 8 million millionaires in the US. IF every one of those gave me a 1 dollar, I would be a millionaire myself!

We aren't your parents or roommates.

 

[Zebo]

If people making 250,000 are barely affected, they should all give me 1 dollar. I heard there are 8 million millionaires in the US. IF every one of those gave me a 1 dollar, I would be a millionaire myself!

I'm not into welfare. Workfare. You know how to paint a house call me. I'll teach ya and even have 2 airless sprayers to make it easy. And that's way gov should be too. IMO welfare cripples some people who don't want to be team players.. Left has them too. You see them in section 8, sleeping till noon, drugs all day, sex all night. Sounds like some trust fund babies I know another worthless sort.

 

[nobodyknows]

The government gives food, money, education, housing to the poor. The rich get no such benefits, they get the pleasure of paying for all of it with THEIR MONEY.

Gee, I feel so sorry for those poor, poor, rich people. How do they manage not going postal?? Life is so UNFAIR for them, boo hoo. They could have had a 100 ft yacht instead of a just a 60 ft if it weren't for all those damn taxes. Life's a bitch and then you die.

 

[nobodyknows]

So of course since it's negative impacts are so obvious, you can show us empirical evidence that higher tax rates on the rich lead to lower economic growth, right 'ol spidey?

.... right?

Don't hold your breath.

 

[Phokus]

Yes, god forbid that people like the Koch Brothers having money to reinvest in their companies. Wouldn't want to have more people employed that either supply goods or services to these same said companies. Better to ship all these companies to Mexico.

Companies are sitting on piles of cash and aren't investing in shit... instead they're using that money to buy up their shares to prop up their share prices so CEO's can get a better bonus (i know this doesn't apply to Koch industries since they're private, but that's what most of the big public companies are doing).

 

[Phokus]

If people making 250,000 are barely affected, they should all give me 1 dollar. I heard there are 8 million millionaires in the US. IF every one of those gave me a 1 dollar, I would be a millionaire myself!

We aren't your parents or roommates.

LMAO, yeah, if HACP got a dollar from all those people, he could stop stealing shit from his roommates.

 

[cganesh75]

Companies are sitting on piles of cash and aren't investing in shit... instead they're using that money to buy up their shares to prop up their share prices so CEO's can get a better bonus (i know this doesn't apply to Koch industries since they're private, but that's what most of the big public companies are doing).

this


if the argument that tax credit will create jobs is true then where are the damn jobs now? where were they the past 3 yrs? tax credits were still in place all this time..

 

[Zebo]

You don't invest in employees when there is no demand. Business 101.

Americans are tapped. Have tapped their fake home equity out, savings in trouble and otherwise can't pretend and extend anymore. Gov't still doing it but that will end too.

I have money just sitting losing value each day because I see no good opportunity to make money in business off my underpaid & unemployed fellow Americans. I wish everyone had $150,000 a year job so I could do something to try and get it.