GOP takes tough stand on saving Bush tax cuts

[Hacp]

Fighting against wealth aggregation does not automatically make one a socialist or communist. The founding fathers were VERY concerned about the creation of an American aristocracy, which is where wealth aggregation is leading us.

Why is wealth aggregation bad again? Can you provide us with an equation that mathematically describes why wealth aggregation is bad for the economy, or are you just saying its bad because you feel that way?

 

[spidey07]

lol, I didn't expect you would understand - you are too blinded to think about this rationally - thus you go after me personally with wildly inaccurate BS.

What you and other leftists whine about - is directly enabled by the gov't - yet you want more and more gov't intervention. Who pays for the gov't and controls it - oh yeah - people with money(you people whine about this all the time) yet your solution is more of the same enablement.

Meh - your types will never realize how illogical your stances are... but carry on.

But, but, but, it's the regulations that favor the rich!

We need more regulation!

 

[Balt]

Well I dare say that if we fired all federal employees and offered them their job back at half the rate, many of them will take it.

I doubt a GS-5 is going to take a job that pays $17,000/year (before taxes) in the DC area.

I doubt a GS-7 is going to take a job that pays $21,000/year (before taxes) in the DC area.

I doubt a GS-9 is going to take a job that pays $26,000/year (before taxes) in the DC area.

etc. etc. etc.



Anyway, with regards to the original post. I'd be surprised if Obama would be willing to sign off on a bill that makes the Bush tax cuts permanent. If he does, he might be regarded as the most spineless president of all time.

 

[brencat]

We need to stop focusing on the top 2% and start focusing on the top 0.05%. Lumping a 250-thousandaire in with 180 millionaires (annual family income I'm talking about) at the same top marginal bracket is a fvcking joke. We need to establish at least 5 additional higher marginal brackets at the 750k, 1 mil, 1.25 mil, 3 mil, and 5 mil+ mark. 250k annual family income in NJ or NY is middle/upper-middle class even though it may be a fortune elsewhere in the country. We also need a phase out of the 15% cap gains treatment on investment income beyond a certain point of annual family income to ensure the idle rich living off their massive investment capital actually pay a decent amount of tax (i.e 25-35%) instead of 15% or less.

We also need to cut corporate taxes to 25% while closing all the damned loopholes and get that money held in overseas subsidiaries brought back to the U.S.

I've talked about all this before...and I'll keep talking about it. Because focusing on the top 2% is patently unfair when family income levels are so massively different from the top 2% to the top 0.01%. Let's focus our attention on the grifters instead of high cost of living NY, NJ, and CA's middle and upper middle class.

 

[Engineer]

These people are the best of the best. They work hard and play by the rules to make a large salary for retirement, only to see a big chunk go to the federal government to pay for some janitor or administrator's pension plan.

What does anything you typed have to do with the notion that the average two people in those professions make an average of $250,000 or more per year (as was said by several here)? Oh, it doesn't. Thanks for playing basement jeopardy.

 

[Jhhnn]

I am still trying to understand the argument that lower taxes on the rich create jobs. Seems to me lowering taxes on the middle class and the poor would be a lot more for the economy, and even the rich than lowering taxes on the rich. Is there a good website that has information on these things? Or at least info on what people think should work and why?

It's something called "simulated rationality". It sounds good, and even seems believable, but it's not the truth. This explains how it works-

http://web.archive.org/web/20010726030451/http://www.indymedia.org/print.php3?article_id=3159

Let's face it- if low taxes on top tier incomes had the effect Repubs want us to believe they do, then the US would be flush with job opportunities, given that our wealthy pay the lowest tax rates of any wealthy first world citizens. But that's not how it is.

And the difference between thinking and believing is nowhere more obvious than wrt that proposition. Thinkers know it's not true, given the results over the last 30 years, but the gullible, the the people who have an emotional need to believe that the only reason they're not richer is because of crushing taxes still believe it, and always will.

 

[spidey07]

What does anything you typed have to do with the notion that the average two people in those professions make an average of $250,000 or more per year (as was said by several here)? Oh, it doesn't. Thanks for playing basement jeopardy.

Average includes people from all cities, with all levels of experience. It's not a valid statistic. There are losers in every field.

Here in KY, a decent engineer earning under 125K is well underpaid and it's probably his own damn fault.

Yes, I'm talking directly to you.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Average includes people from all cities, with all levels of experience. It's not a valid statistic. There are losers in every field.

Here in KY, a decent engineer earning under 125K is well underpaid and it's probably his own damn fault.

Yes, I'm talking directly to you.

Uh... no. Yes, there are Engineers who will pull that down but it really depends on what kind of Engineer. In the SI world - 125 is rare of unless you own your own or are no longer an Engineer and became part of the problem(management).

 

[Engineer]

Average includes people from all cities, with all levels of experience. It's not a valid statistic. There are losers in every field.

Here in KY, a decent engineer earning under 125K is well underpaid and it's probably his own damn fault.

Yes, I'm talking directly to you.

You can talk to me all you want but your numbers are fantasy, period. There is a reason that it takes two people making that kind of wage to be in the top 2% of wage earners in the wealthiest country in the world.

If you're talking about Engineering Managers or Engineers converted to plant managers, then sure (KY), but other than that, you're full of shit on your numbers.

Uh... no. Yes, there are Engineers who will pull that down but it really depends on what kind of Engineer. In the SI world - 125 is rare of unless you own your own or are no longer an Engineer and became part of the problem(management).

This. Hell, even when I was paid overtime and had over 1,500+ hours of 1.5X pay overtime, I didn't make that amount of money.

Oh, and Spidey, don't give me the "then your pay is shit" as my pay may not be super high, but it's good. Good enough for me to be debt free at 37(I'm near 42 now) and well on my way to retirement.

 

[Jhhnn]

We need to stop focusing on the top 2% and start focusing on the top 0.05%. Lumping a 250-thousandaire in with 180 millionaires (annual family income I'm talking about) at the same top marginal bracket is a fvcking joke. We need to establish at least 5 additional higher marginal brackets at the 750k, 1 mil, 1.25 mil, 3 mil, and 5 mil+ mark. 250k annual family income in NJ or NY is middle/upper-middle class even though it may be a fortune elsewhere in the country. We also need a phase out of the 15% cap gains treatment on investment income beyond a certain point of annual family income to ensure the idle rich living off their massive investment capital actually pay a decent amount of tax (i.e 25-35%) instead of 15% or less.

We also need to cut corporate taxes to 25% while closing all the damned loopholes and get that money held in overseas subsidiaries brought back to the U.S.

I've talked about all this before...and I'll keep talking about it. Because focusing on the top 2% is patently unfair when family income levels are so massively different from the top 2% to the top 0.01%. Let's focus our attention on the grifters instead of high cost of living NY, NJ, and CA's middle and upper middle class.

We rarely agree, but I think you're right about the need for more brackets at the top, and for all forms of income to be treated as income.

I disagree with the idea that people making $250K aren't comfortably well off in comparison to the rest of us, regardless of where they live. These are median income figures by state-

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/eco_med_fam_inc-economy-median-family-income

Yeh, sure, $250K won't go as far in New Jersey as it will here in Colorado, but families at that income level aren't really hurting in either locale...

 

[fskimospy]

Average includes people from all cities, with all levels of experience. It's not a valid statistic. There are losers in every field.

Here in KY, a decent engineer earning under 125K is well underpaid and it's probably his own damn fault.

Yes, I'm talking directly to you.

Well spidey, once again if that's true it should be easy for you to provide some statistics that show that the median salary for engineers is considerably higher than $125,000 in KY. Since you said 'well underpaid' I assume that must mean at least 10% below prevailing wages, so shoot for statistics that show the median salary to be somewhere around $140,000.

Either that, or go take your lithium.

 

[spidey07]

You can talk to me all you want but your numbers are fantasy, period. There is a reason that it takes two people making that kind of wage to be in the top 2% of wage earners in the wealthiest country in the world.

If you're talking about Engineering Managers or Engineers converted to plant managers, then sure (KY), but other than that, you're full of shit on your numbers.

Umm, I have group leaders living in my neighborhood making 125K plus.

 

[Engineer]

Umm, I have group leaders living in my neighborhood making 125K plus.

You're doing it wrong.

Good for them. I bet they are working overtime out the rear and getting paid for it too (I've seen those guys at Toyota making $75 per hour because they had to be there on the weekends and did not have more than 2 scheduled days off for the rest of the year (this was in July).

I'm doing just fine thank you.

 

[fskimospy]

Good for them. I bet they are working overtime out the rear and getting paid for it too (I've seen those guys at Toyota making $75 per hour because they had to be there on the weekends and did not have more than 2 scheduled days off for the rest of the year (this was in July).

I'm doing just fine thank you.

I don't think spidey understands the concept of 'anecdotal evidence' and why it's crap.

 

[spidey07]

I don't think spidey understands the concept of 'anecdotal evidence' and why it's crap.

I'll take my personal experience over anything said on this or any forum. First hand knowledge FTW.

Engineer makes my point though, work hard and you will be successful and make a pretty penny. Wanna get into that magical "rich" folk of more than 250k? Work.

 

[Lemon law]

On today's meet the press Obama adviser Axelrod flat out refused to confirm Obama would cave to the GOP to demand extend the Bush tax cuts to those making over $250,000/yr.

And its also my understand that the whole ball game will be over before the next house GOP congress takes over.

Because come 1/1/2011 all Bush era tax cuts sunset.

Republicans and democrats are united that all Bush era tax cuts should be extended for tax payers making under $250.000/yr. Only the GOP insists on extending Bush ear tax cuts to those making over $250,000/yr also.

Were it me in charge, I would recommend the still democratic house pass a extension bill
without the tax breaks for those making over $250,000. Said bill can pass the house and be vetoed in the Senate by using the GOP filibuster. But if the GOP filibusters the bill in the Senate, all the Bush Tax cuts, including the exemptions for the rich become history.

Come 1/2011. The then republirats house can pass any bill they didly darn well feel like, but if they include exceptions for the rich it will die in the Senate.

And if the republirats think the general public will support them killing all tax break extensions just to save the very rich, the GOP are likely to get immediately get dope slapped by public opinion.

But if Boehner wants to play the part of the grinch who stole XMas and upcoming tax season, I say let him. Meanwhile the GOP is at least 12 Senators short of a filibuster proof Senate.

 

[Lemon law]

On today's meet the press Obama adviser Axelrod flat out refused to confirm Obama would cave to the GOP to demand extend the Bush tax cuts to those making over $250,000/yr.

And its also my understand that the whole ball game will be over before the next house GOP congress takes over.

Because come 1/1/2011 all Bush era tax cuts sunset.

Republicans and democrats are united that all Bush era tax cuts should be extended for tax payers making under $250.000/yr. Only the GOP insists on extending Bush ear tax cuts to those making over $250,000/yr also.

Were it me in charge, I would recommend the still democratic house pass a extension bill
without the tax breaks for those making over $250,000. Said bill can pass the house and be vetoed in the Senate by using the GOP filibuster. But if the GOP filibusters the bill in the Senate, all the Bush Tax cuts, including the exemptions for the rich become history.

Come 1/2011. The then republirats house can pass any bill they didly darn well feel like, but if they include exceptions for the rich it will die in the Senate.

And if the republirats think the general public will support them killing all tax break extensions just to save the very rich, the GOP are likely to get immediately get dope slapped by public opinion.

But if Boehner wants to play the part of the grinch who stole XMas and upcoming tax season, I say let him. Meanwhile the GOP is at least 12 Senators short of a filibuster proof Senate.

 

[fskimospy]

I'll take my personal experience over anything said on this or any forum. First hand knowledge FTW.

Engineer makes my point though, work hard and you will be successful and make a pretty penny. Wanna get into that magical "rich" folk of more than 250k? Work.

Of course you will, that's because you don't understand how the world works or how evidence works.

I on the other hand, already took a minute and examined median engineering incomes in Kentucky, and I already know that you were, yet again, completely wrong. There are plenty of sources that you could check. I was trying to get you to put even a tiny amount of work into your understanding of the world, and search out those numbers yourself. What's funny is that you complained about AVERAGE salaries artificially bringing down the numbers when they actually bring them up.

If you're anywhere nearly as horrible at engineering as you are at estimating engineering salaries, please tell me what products you've worked on so that I can put on a hazmat suit before using them.

Spidey, do you want people to stop making fun of you? To have opinions based in reality?

Work.

 

[LegendKiller]

Why is wealth aggregation bad again? Can you provide us with an equation that mathematically describes why wealth aggregation is bad for the economy, or are you just saying its bad because you feel that way?

Says the guy who lives with his parents.

Think through why wealth aggregation is bad.

Can you name one negative?

 

[CallMeJoe]

Says the guy who lives with his parents.
Think through why wealth aggregation is bad.
Can you name on negative?

Someone recently corrected me; Hacp allegedly has moved out of the basement and into an apartment - where he steals from his roommates.


edit: the evidence

 

[LegendKiller]

Someone recently corrected me; Hacp allegedly has moved out of the basement and into an apartment - where he steals from his roommates.

So, of two of the biggest conservatives on this board that bitch about higher taxing being stealing people's money, one steals from his roommates (if he's even moved out, otherwise he's stealing from his parents) and another's wife derives her income from the government.

Wow, hypocrite much?

 

[Engineer]

Someone recently corrected me; Hacp allegedly has moved out of the basement and into an apartment - where he steals from his roommates.


edit: the evidence

I remember this. Stole the good stuff and replaced it with cheap crap.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

So, of two of the biggest conservatives on this board that bitch about higher taxing being stealing people's money, one steals from his roommates (if he's even moved out, otherwise he's stealing from his parents) and another's wife derives her income from the government.

Wow, hypocrite much?

Uhh... I take issue with that. I've been here forever bitching about how liberals are trying to steal more money with their "progressive" taxation scam and I'm a pretty vocal Conservative too.

 

[CallMeJoe]

Uhh... I take issue with that. I've been here forever bitching about how liberals are trying to steal more money with their "progressive" taxation scam and I'm a pretty vocal Conservative too.

Point taken. You are neither a petty thief nor a leech on the taxpayer.

At least, not that you've admitted on the forum. :biggrin:

 

[Paul98]

Seems like adding a couple higher tax tiers would stop some of these arguments wouldn't it?

What would happen if you were able to keep more of the money you made for lets say your first 60k? Then raised the tax on a very high tax bracket? Would much of that money make it back up to those in the top tax bracket?