GOP senators pledge to block all bills until Bush tax cuts extended

[sactoking]

In what world of spin is not passing new legislation cut taxes a tax increase?

It's actually a fairly common perception in the real world, one which marketing firms have to deal with constantly. It all hinges on pricing reference points. Sales of a product are directly affected by whether the public feels it is overpriced or under priced. The public's perception of pricing (the reference price) is a collectivist measure of history and experience.

To Apple devotees the price of the Macbook Air is perceived as low; their reference price is affected by the Macbook Pro and the relative utility of OSX. To Apple haters the price of the Macbook Air is perceived as high; their reference price is affected by $200 netbooks and the flexibility of the Windows platform.

Additionally, reference pricing has a temporal component. If you price your product at $500 for years and then lower the price to $400 it is seen as a deal (even if the $500 price point was universally accepted as overpriced). If the product is priced at $400 initially and later determined that such a price is causing a loss, increasing the price to even $425 (a break-even point) would be viewed negatively.

Finally, reference pricing has a magnitude component. If you sell a product for $1000 (at 200% markup) and drop the price to $333 (cost) your product may be viewed as defective, unpopular, or in some other negative light due to the size of the price drop.

Jewelers have recently been faced with the temporal aspect of reference pricing. Prices on cut diamonds at retail have been sold at 50-90% for so long that to end the "sales" and retail them at list price would be impossible; consumer have adjusted their reference price for diamonds downward to adjust for the seemingly endless "sale".

That's the problem Congress faces now. The "Bush tax cuts" were enacted with a finite period of efficacy. Since that period was 10 years, a long time in the real world, citizens adjusted their reference price on Federal taxes down for temporal reasons. That the "increase" is actually just a sunset on a decrease is irrelevant at this point to the average taxpayer for the same reason that jewelers cannot end the "sale" on retail diamonds: the actions of the entity in charge of pricing has caused a shift in expectations among consumers such that the decrease or sale is expected and has been incorporated into reference pricing.

 

[spidey07]

And George W Bush signed Medicare part D which was the biggest expansion of entitlements in a looong time.

Yes, that was his "compromise" and conservatives still hammer him about it.

We don't want compromise from Obama and dems, we want them stopped dead in their agenda and destruction of our nation.

 

[theeedude]

I think it more appropriately characterized by saying that he is throwing this hot potato over to the Senate.

The House votes and it passes (the Dems hold a big majority, so why not) but the Repubs vote no claiming they oppose tax increases. Big deal. That's barely newsworthy.

But then it shifts over to the Senate. And they're under pressure. Somebody is gonna be blamed if taxes for all go up in January. Are the Senate Dems willing to play that game of 'chicken'?

We'll see.

Fern

They should just use reconciliation to pass it over GOP objections in the Senate.

 

[Craig234]

Hell, if their agenda is screwing over the corrupt and evil Americans <cough> banksters <cough> they have my vote on that alone. Its about time those bastards get boned.

That's not true, is it.

The faction most for reigning in bankers is progressives, while the faction most in bed with the bankers is most Republicans (with some Dems up there).

And yet you don't vote for progressives over this, do you?

 

[IBMer]

Yes, that was his "compromise" and conservatives still hammer him about it.

We don't want compromise from Obama and dems, we want them stopped dead in their agenda and destruction of our nation.

You use too many words that you don't understand the meaning of.

 

[Craig234]

And George W Bush signed Medicare part D which was the biggest expansion of entitlements in a looong time.

Except that the Medicare Part D that passed, specifically at the direction of the Republicans, diverted massive amounts away from seniors to Big Pharma.

It was so bad that many seniors were worse off under the new program than before - and Republicans paid for the giveaway to Big Pharma in part with a big doughnut'.

And it was the DEMOCRATS who passed a reform bill to largely close that doughnut years later - though to their shame the big pharma giveaway remains.

 

[theeedude]

Yes, that was his "compromise" and conservatives still hammer him about it.

We don't want compromise from Obama and dems, we want them stopped dead in their agenda and destruction of our nation.

It's just business. If GOP retakes full control, they'll throw tea baggers away like a used condom and go back to screwing America for the benefit of corporations who pay them.

 

[werepossum]

They should just use reconciliation to pass it over GOP objections in the Senate.

Actually that's not a bad idea. Run it through quick, for a ten year extension on those who earn less than $250,000. Most of America benefits, the Democrats get their class warfare, and the Republicans are protected from themselves. Everybody wins!

I still like Shira's idea better.

 

[Throckmorton]

First, no, they don't - Obama is racing over to their side 'compromising' except it's not compromising because he's just giving them what they want for nothing in return.

Second, 'work with them' doesn't mean '"NO COMPROMISE!!!!!" they get everything they want.

Third, they have an agenda for screwing over almost all American that's corrupt and evil.

yep, I don't understand what Obama is doing at all. He should do what Shira said and present the under 250k tax cut separately

 

[LegendKiller]

Let the fucking things expire and then let the GOP sit on their asses for 2 years while Obama tries to push everything he can through, including spending bills...etc.

I'd love for them to not pass anything. He can start saying that the GOP cares more about people making 23k/mo than they do about average americans.

Let the GOP shoot themselves in the dick.

 

[spidey07]

Let the fucking things expire and then let the GOP sit on their asses for 2 years while Obama tries to push everything he can through, including spending bills...etc.

I'd love for them to not pass anything. He can start saying that the GOP cares more about people making 23k/mo than they do about average americans.

Let the GOP shoot themselves in the dick.

Fuck Obama.

We The People stopped him. He can try all his lies all he wants. The People are wide fucking awake now. WIDE AWAKE. Remeber what happened just 30 days ago? Remember the rejection of this fucker?

I however care about my country and it's economy. We have to weather the Obama economy/his tax increases and if he continues his destruction we'll just hunker down more. The light at the end of the tunnel is close, only two more years of this fucking fucker.

 

[werepossum]

Fuck Obama.

We The People stopped him. He can try all his lies all he wants. The People are wide fucking awake now. WIDE AWAKE. Remeber what happened just 30 days ago? Remember the rejection of this fucker?

I however care about my country and it's economy. We have to weather the Obama economy/his tax increases and if he continues his destruction we'll just hunker down more. The light at the end of the tunnel is close, only two more years of this fucking fucker.

Unless he moves to the center. Everyone said the same about Clinton, who had introduced an even more draconian takeover of health care. Obama never (yet) proposed actually sending you to prison for spending your own money on your own health care. Yet Clinton was able to move to the right, triangulate against the left and the right, and win reelection. Assuming the GOP takes the Senate in 2012, Obama keeping the White House might be Clinton 2: The Revenge. And ignoring this country's outsourcing problems which are bipartisan, those were pretty successful times. Outside of gutting the military anyway. Give Congress a "peace dividend" and it will spend it three times over.

I care about my country and its economy too, and I have liked damned little that Obama and the Dems have done or attempted. But I remain unconvinced that power concentrated in the GOP's hands will have much better results. I much prefer blessed gridlock.

 

[lothar]

Don't just put it up, pass it under reconciliation (just like the cuts originally passed).

Did you ever get a response from Sen. Barbara Boxer's office on that issue?

 

[lothar]

In what world of spin is not passing new legislation cut taxes a tax increase? If that's the case, then what Bush passed in 2001 was actually simultaneously a 10 year tax cut followed by a tax increase.

If the Democrats don't get something passed, yes it will be seen as a tax increase. If they are so inept as to somehow have Republicans filibustering their tax cut bill get turned into them increasing taxes, they deserve to lose. People will be angry their taxes are going up, and I would love for the Republicans to try and explain how they had to make that happen in order to protect millionaires. I would LOVE to see the polling data on 'if Congress won't pass a tax cut for everyone the Republicans should block everything'. I bet you they have internal polling on that, and it's not pretty.

There's no need to take Schumer's compromise measure, and the Democrats shouldn't, as they hold most of the cards. What seemed far more likely to me was Republicans taking a temporary continuation of the tax cut for millionaires in exchange for pushing through the new START, DADT repeal, etc.

What is Schumer's compromise measure?

 

[Carmen813]

What is Schumer's compromise measure?

Tax increases for those making $1 million plus, instead of 250k +.

 

[jackace]

Fuck Obama.

We The People stopped him. He can try all his lies all he wants. The People are wide fucking awake now. WIDE AWAKE. Remeber what happened just 30 days ago? Remember the rejection of this fucker?

I however care about my country and it's economy. We have to weather the Obama economy/his tax increases and if he continues his destruction we'll just hunker down more. The light at the end of the tunnel is close, only two more years of this fucking fucker.

Where were you for the last 30+ years when all this republican led trickle down economic BS was being pushed down our throats? Why weren't you standing up against that? It is a major reason why we are in this current economic mess.

Edit - Why are you so quick to blame the guy who is trying to fix the mess left for him, but you have little or no blame for those who created the problem to begin with? Yes, that does include Clinton.

 

[lothar]

Tax increases for those making $1 million plus, instead of 250k +.

Does his measure eliminate Obama's marriage penalty tax?

 

[IronWing]

Fuck Obama.

We The People stopped him. He can try all his lies all he wants. The People are wide fucking awake now. WIDE AWAKE. Remeber what happened just 30 days ago? Remember the rejection of this fucker?

I however care about my country and it's economy. We have to weather the Obama economy/his tax increases and if he continues his destruction we'll just hunker down more. The light at the end of the tunnel is close, only two more years of this fucking fucker.

Not one single post you have made here indicates that you give a fuck about anything but yourself. Not one. So pardon me if I conclude your patriotic ranting is more self serving horseshit.

 

[IBMer]

Fuck Obama.

We The People stopped him. He can try all his lies all he wants. The People are wide fucking awake now. WIDE AWAKE. Remeber what happened just 30 days ago? Remember the rejection of this fucker?

I however care about my country and it's economy. We have to weather the Obama economy/his tax increases and if he continues his destruction we'll just hunker down more. The light at the end of the tunnel is close, only two more years of this fucking fucker.

Facts, numbers and reality mean very little to you.

 

[werepossum]

Where were you for the last 30+ years when all this republican led trickle down economic BS was being pushed down our throats? Why weren't you standing up against that? It is a major reason why we are in this current economic mess.

Both parties are for trickle down economics. The Democrat plan is to have government scoop up all the money and let it trickle down.

 

[IBMer]

Both parties are for trickle down economics. The Democrat plan is to have government scoop up all the money and let it trickle down.

Soon they will all let us cover ourselves in honey and let us in rooms filled with dollars being blown around by a fan and let us keep all that we can stick to ourselves after a minute.

 

[werepossum]

Soon they will all let us cover ourselves in honey and let us in rooms filled with dollars being blown around by a fan and let us keep all that we can stick to ourselves after a minute.

LOL!

Mmmmm, honey . . .

 

[jackace]

Both parties are for trickle down economics. The Democrat plan is to have government scoop up all the money and let it trickle down.

I'm not saying I like or agree with the Democrats proposal 100%, but I know what the Republican proposal will bring. We tried it for 30+ years and it has been a resounding failure. However we have a lot of people in this country who still think we should return to that failed model.

 

[LegendKiller]

Fuck Obama.

We The People stopped him. He can try all his lies all he wants. The People are wide fucking awake now. WIDE AWAKE. Remeber what happened just 30 days ago? Remember the rejection of this fucker?

I however care about my country and it's economy. We have to weather the Obama economy/his tax increases and if he continues his destruction we'll just hunker down more. The light at the end of the tunnel is close, only two more years of this fucking fucker.

Listen dipshit, nobody is "we the people", it's some little catchy bullshit you love to toss around to make yourself feel better. The economy sucked because assholes you idolized fucked it, deal with it.

Your economy was fucked because of tax cuts to the rich and low capital gains taxes. I've proven this point time and again, TAXES HAVE NO EFFECT ON GDP. You have yet to provide one shred of evidence that they do, you have yet to provide any evidence at all that the reduction in taxes has helped this country.

Only YOU THE PEOPLE are too fucking stupid to realize that you're a liar, an illogical moron and goddamn leech whose wife is a fucking leech.

THAT is WE THE PEOPLE speaking you goddamn hypocrite.

 

[spidey07]

Listen dipshit, nobody is "we the people", it's some little catchy bullshit you love to toss around to make yourself feel better. The economy sucked because assholes you idolized fucked it, deal with it.

Your economy was fucked because of tax cuts to the rich and low capital gains taxes. I've proven this point time and again, TAXES HAVE NO EFFECT ON GDP. You have yet to provide one shred of evidence that they do, you have yet to provide any evidence at all that the reduction in taxes has helped this country.

Only YOU THE PEOPLE are too fucking stupid to realize that you're a liar, an illogical moron and goddamn leech whose wife is a fucking leech.

THAT is WE THE PEOPLE speaking you goddamn hypocrite.

Umm, HELLO! Did you not see what happened in November? I TOLD you it was coming. The Obama and liberal agenda proves it's failure over and over and over again. The experiment yields the same results.

No, I don't use We The People as you say. I feel just fine. I am the will of this nation and am much more involved in voting than any on this board. What have you done?

It was funny, I ran into a cashier I spoke to more than a month before the election. I asked her then "You happy with what Obama is doing?" Her answer was "No, I voted for him, but not this". Are you ready to stop him? "Yes she answered". "are you talking to you friends and family to help stop him?"

After the election she said "Thank you! I spoke to all my friends and they felt the same way, stop Obama, stop this nonsense"

I did this maybe 200 times, talking to strangers, getting motivated. Let alone my co-workers. No, We The People REJECT this presidency. You are clueless at just how much he is hated.

The Obama Economy fails, this president is a complete and utter failure. Fuck Obama.