GOP Senate Candidate Declares Pregnancy From Rape Is "Something God Intended"

[zanejohnson]

i'm damn near convinced it's the end..


God has come up in EVERY THREAD NOW.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Now now, I know you're trying to be fair, but think a bit. If it's God's will that a child of rape be born then it has to be that the rape was God's will too. If you are a believer that thinks God knows and causes everything, there is no way out. As I said, the absolutists sets his trap when he says that life is absolutely sacred. If you are a relativist then you know that man can become a monster but if you are an absolutist you make God the monster. This is what happens to the mind that thinks lineally. You wind up in a box. Only a mind in loving modesty can navigate this mess.

What is it that you don't understand about free will. Even tho God knows the rape is going to place . His gift of free will doesn't allow for him to inteven . Or we wouldn't be free to choose . its easy concept to understand . Here is doc savages words in all his post bottom you wil;l find these words .

"A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which are only accessible to our reason in their most elementary forms—it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man." - Albert Einstein

Here are the Words of Christ from Gosphel of Mary Magdellin. Its so clear that YOU judge without knowledge.

[The Coptic papyrus, from which the first six pages have been lost, begins in the middle of this gospel.]

"...will, then, matter be saved or not?"

The Savior said, "All natures, all formed things, all creatures exist in and with one another and will again be resolved into their own roots, because the nature of matter is dissolved into the roots of its nature alone. He who has ears to hear, let him hear." [cf. Matt. 11:15, etc.].

Peter said to him, "Since you have now explained all things to us, tell us this: what is the sin of the world?" [cf. John 1:29]. The Savior said, "Sin as such does not exist, but you make sin when you do what is of the nature of fornication, which is called 'sin.' For this reason the Good came into your midst, to the essence of each nature, to restore it to its root." He went on to say, "For this reason you come into existence and die [...] whoever knows may know [...] a suffering which has nothing like itself, which has arisen out of what is contrary to nature. Then there arises a disturbance in the whole body. For this reason I said to you, Be of good courage [cf. Matt. 28:9], and if you are discouraged, still take courage over against the various forms of nature. He who has ears to hear, let him hear." When the Blessed One said this, he greeted all of them, saying "Peace be with you [cf. John 14:27]. Receive my peace for yourselves. Take heed lest anyone lead you astray with the words, 'Lo, here!' or 'Lo, there!' [cf. Matt. 24:5, 23; Luke 17:21] for the Son of Man is within you [cf. Luke 17:21]. Follow him; those who seek him will find him [cf. Matt. 7:7]. Go, therefore, and preach the Gospel of the Kingdom [cf. Matt. 4:23; 9:15; Mark 16:15]. I have left no commandment but what I have commanded you, and I have given you no law, as the lawgiver did, lest you be bound by it."

They grieved and mourned greatly, saying, "How shall we go to the Gentiles and preach the Gospel of the Kingdom of the Son of Man? If even he was not spared, how shall we be spared?"

Then Mary stood up and greeted all of them and said to her brethren, "Do not mourn or grieve or be irresolute, for his grace will be with you all and will defend you. Let us rather praise his greatness, for he prepared us and made us into men." When Mary said this, their hearts changed for the better, and they began to discuss the words of the [Savior].

Peter said to Mary, "Sister, we know that the Savior loved you more than other women [cf. John 11:5, Luke 10:38-42]. Tell us the words of the Savior which you have in mind since you know them; and we do not, nor have we heard of them."

Mary answered and said, "What is hidden from you I will impart to you." And she began to say the following words to them. "I," she said, "I saw the Lord in a vision and I said to him, 'Lord, I saw you today in a vision.' He answered and said to me, 'Blessed are you, since you did not waver at the sight of me. For where the mind is, there is your countenance' [cf. Matt. 6:21]. I said to him, 'Lord, the mind which sees the vision, does it see it through the soul or through the spirit?' The Savior answered and said, 'It sees neither through the soul nor through the spirit, but the mind, which is between the two, which sees the vision, and it is...'"

"...and Desire said, 'I did not see you descend; but now I see you rising. Why do you speak falsely, when you belong to me?' The soul answered and said, 'I saw you, but you did not see me or recognize me; I served you as a garment and you did not recognize me.' After it had said this, it went joyfully and gladly away. Again it came to the third power, Ignorance. This power questioned the soul: 'Whither are you going? You were bound in wickedness, you were bound indeed. Judge not' [cf. Matt. 7:1]. And the soul said, 'Why do you judge me, when I judged not? I was bound, though I did not bind. I was not recognized, but I recognized that all will go free, things both earthly and heavenly.' After the soul had left the third power behind, it rose upward, and saw the fourth power, which had seven forms. The first form is darkness, the second desire, the third ignorance, the fourth the arousing of death, the fifth is the kingdom of the flesh, the sixth is the wisdom of the folly of the flesh, the seventh is wrathful wisdom. These are the seven participants in wrath. They ask the soul, 'Whence do you come, killer of men, or where are you going, conqueror of space?' The soul answered and said, 'What seizes me is killed; what turns me about is overcome; my desire has come to an end and ignorance is dead. In a world I was saved from a world, and in a "type," from a higher "type" and from the fetter of the impotence of knowledge, the existence of which is temporal. From this time I will reach rest in the time of the moment of the Aeon in silence.'"

When Mary had said this, she was silent, since the Savior had spoken thus far with her. But Andrew answered and said to the brethren, 'Say what you think concerning what she said. For I do not believe that the Savior said this. For certainly these teachings are of other ideas."

Peter also opposed her in regard to these matters and asked them about the Savior. "Did he then speak secretly with a woman [cf. John 4:27], in preference to us, and not openly? Are we to turn back and all listen to her? Did he prefer her to us?" Then Mary grieved and said to Peter, "My brother Peter, what do you think? Do you think that I thought this up myself in my heart or that I am lying concerning the Savior?"

Levi answered and said to Peter, "Peter, you are always irate. Now I see that you are contending against the woman like the adversaries. But if the Savior made her worthy, who are you to reject her? Surely the Savior knew her very well [cf. Luke 10:38- 42]. For this reason he loved her more than us [cf. John 11:5]. And we should rather be ashamed and put on the Perfect Man, to form us [?] as he commanded us, and proclaim the gospel, without publishing a further commandment or a further law than the one which the Savior spoke." When Levi had said this, they began to go out in order to proclaim him and preach him.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You see Christ says the same thing Albert says. Its just like whats about to happen . The non event of 12/21/12. People like you will go ape and jump all over the non event . I can tell ya a million times. This isn't 2012 but 2011. I have no way to prove it till the events of nov and dec of 2013. YOU This time next year will be a differant person . Insane with fear and 100% out of control.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

What is it that you don't understand about free will. Even tho God knows the rape is going to place .

Wait, if God knows it will take place and God cannot be wrong then how on earth is free will involved?

What you are suggesting is that no one ever has free will, they cannot choose what God doesn't know they will choose.

IOW, no murderer or rapist ever had a choice, God knew they would rape and murder (presumable since before the dawn of time itself) so they couldn't choose not to do it.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Wait, if God knows it will take place and God cannot be wrong then how on earth is free will involved?

What you are suggesting is that no one ever has free will, they cannot choose what God doesn't know they will choose.

IOW, no murderer or rapist ever had a choice, God knew they would rape and murder (presumable since before the dawn of time itself) so they couldn't choose not to do it.

It was a man with freewill that made a choice. If God babysat us and fixed all our mistakes befor they occurred . That removes free will . STOP tring to TEST GOD. It is us who have to make the right choices in order to return to our roots . As it was in the beginning so shall it be in the end . If you change your nature your root is destroyed. and you shall not exist in the universe

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

It was a man with freewill that made a choice. If God babysat us and fixed all our mistakes befor they occurred . That removes free will . STOP tring to TEST GOD. It is us who have to make the right choices in order to return to our roots . As it was in the beginning so shall it be in the end . If you chasnge your nature your root is destroyed. and you shall not exist in the universe

You just said god KNEW that the rape would take place and since god cannot be wrong how on earth is the rapist going to choose anything but raping the woman? Just answer the question, it's a very straightforward question that should be easy to answer.

Or if you find that question too hard, can any man choose something that god doesn't know he'll choose?

That is a yes or no question.

 

[zinfamous]

Please. Just because one side is totally insane doesn't mean you have to go full bore crazy the other way. Can't you see there may be women who could love a child no matter who the father is? You would just become another kind of monster if you took that away. This is totally an issue of the mother's choice and maintaining options either way.

/issue

 

[Tom]

What species is it before it turns into a human? Mind you, that is has only human DNA in it and is a 100% unique expression of that human DNA.

But please, tell us what species humans start out as before they magically change and become human.

that dna is half from the girl and half from her rapist. You really think you have the right to dictate who a girl has a child with ?

every sperm and every egg can unite to form a unique human. Unless you think its "magic" there's no difference between saving every sperm and fertilizing every egg possible, and saving every fertilized egg.

That isn't "human".

 

[Moonbeam]

What is it that you don't understand about free will. Even tho God knows the rape is going to place . His gift of free will doesn't allow for him to inteven . Or we wouldn't be free to choose . its easy concept to understand . Here is doc savages words in all his post bottom you wil;l find these words .

"A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which are only accessible to our reason in their most elementary forms—it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man." - Albert Einstein

Here are the Words of Christ from Gosphel of Mary Magdellin. Its so clear that YOU judge without knowledge.

[The Coptic papyrus, from which the first six pages have been lost, begins in the middle of this gospel.]

"...will, then, matter be saved or not?"

The Savior said, "All natures, all formed things, all creatures exist in and with one another and will again be resolved into their own roots, because the nature of matter is dissolved into the roots of its nature alone. He who has ears to hear, let him hear." [cf. Matt. 11:15, etc.].

Peter said to him, "Since you have now explained all things to us, tell us this: what is the sin of the world?" [cf. John 1:29]. The Savior said, "Sin as such does not exist, but you make sin when you do what is of the nature of fornication, which is called 'sin.' For this reason the Good came into your midst, to the essence of each nature, to restore it to its root." He went on to say, "For this reason you come into existence and die [...] whoever knows may know [...] a suffering which has nothing like itself, which has arisen out of what is contrary to nature. Then there arises a disturbance in the whole body. For this reason I said to you, Be of good courage [cf. Matt. 28:9], and if you are discouraged, still take courage over against the various forms of nature. He who has ears to hear, let him hear." When the Blessed One said this, he greeted all of them, saying "Peace be with you [cf. John 14:27]. Receive my peace for yourselves. Take heed lest anyone lead you astray with the words, 'Lo, here!' or 'Lo, there!' [cf. Matt. 24:5, 23; Luke 17:21] for the Son of Man is within you [cf. Luke 17:21]. Follow him; those who seek him will find him [cf. Matt. 7:7]. Go, therefore, and preach the Gospel of the Kingdom [cf. Matt. 4:23; 9:15; Mark 16:15]. I have left no commandment but what I have commanded you, and I have given you no law, as the lawgiver did, lest you be bound by it."

They grieved and mourned greatly, saying, "How shall we go to the Gentiles and preach the Gospel of the Kingdom of the Son of Man? If even he was not spared, how shall we be spared?"

Then Mary stood up and greeted all of them and said to her brethren, "Do not mourn or grieve or be irresolute, for his grace will be with you all and will defend you. Let us rather praise his greatness, for he prepared us and made us into men." When Mary said this, their hearts changed for the better, and they began to discuss the words of the [Savior].

Peter said to Mary, "Sister, we know that the Savior loved you more than other women [cf. John 11:5, Luke 10:38-42]. Tell us the words of the Savior which you have in mind since you know them; and we do not, nor have we heard of them."

Mary answered and said, "What is hidden from you I will impart to you." And she began to say the following words to them. "I," she said, "I saw the Lord in a vision and I said to him, 'Lord, I saw you today in a vision.' He answered and said to me, 'Blessed are you, since you did not waver at the sight of me. For where the mind is, there is your countenance' [cf. Matt. 6:21]. I said to him, 'Lord, the mind which sees the vision, does it see it through the soul or through the spirit?' The Savior answered and said, 'It sees neither through the soul nor through the spirit, but the mind, which is between the two, which sees the vision, and it is...'"

"...and Desire said, 'I did not see you descend; but now I see you rising. Why do you speak falsely, when you belong to me?' The soul answered and said, 'I saw you, but you did not see me or recognize me; I served you as a garment and you did not recognize me.' After it had said this, it went joyfully and gladly away. Again it came to the third power, Ignorance. This power questioned the soul: 'Whither are you going? You were bound in wickedness, you were bound indeed. Judge not' [cf. Matt. 7:1]. And the soul said, 'Why do you judge me, when I judged not? I was bound, though I did not bind. I was not recognized, but I recognized that all will go free, things both earthly and heavenly.' After the soul had left the third power behind, it rose upward, and saw the fourth power, which had seven forms. The first form is darkness, the second desire, the third ignorance, the fourth the arousing of death, the fifth is the kingdom of the flesh, the sixth is the wisdom of the folly of the flesh, the seventh is wrathful wisdom. These are the seven participants in wrath. They ask the soul, 'Whence do you come, killer of men, or where are you going, conqueror of space?' The soul answered and said, 'What seizes me is killed; what turns me about is overcome; my desire has come to an end and ignorance is dead. In a world I was saved from a world, and in a "type," from a higher "type" and from the fetter of the impotence of knowledge, the existence of which is temporal. From this time I will reach rest in the time of the moment of the Aeon in silence.'"

When Mary had said this, she was silent, since the Savior had spoken thus far with her. But Andrew answered and said to the brethren, 'Say what you think concerning what she said. For I do not believe that the Savior said this. For certainly these teachings are of other ideas."

Peter also opposed her in regard to these matters and asked them about the Savior. "Did he then speak secretly with a woman [cf. John 4:27], in preference to us, and not openly? Are we to turn back and all listen to her? Did he prefer her to us?" Then Mary grieved and said to Peter, "My brother Peter, what do you think? Do you think that I thought this up myself in my heart or that I am lying concerning the Savior?"

Levi answered and said to Peter, "Peter, you are always irate. Now I see that you are contending against the woman like the adversaries. But if the Savior made her worthy, who are you to reject her? Surely the Savior knew her very well [cf. Luke 10:38- 42]. For this reason he loved her more than us [cf. John 11:5]. And we should rather be ashamed and put on the Perfect Man, to form us [?] as he commanded us, and proclaim the gospel, without publishing a further commandment or a further law than the one which the Savior spoke." When Levi had said this, they began to go out in order to proclaim him and preach him.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You see Christ says the same thing Albert says. Its just like whats about to happen . The non event of 12/21/12. People like you will go ape and jump all over the non event . I can tell ya a million times. This isn't 2012 but 2011. I have no way to prove it till the events of nov and dec of 2013. YOU This time next year will be a differant person . Insane with fear and 100% out off control.

What is it about a loving mind you don't seem to understand? I am a stupid and ignorant person. I don't really make heads or tails of your text. I saw something that seemed to say something about peace be with you and receive my peace for yourselves and that I left no law to bind you.

And here come the Christians wanting to create law against abortion instead of seeking peace within themselves, that their good has to be my good, that I have no free will, that my peace must be on their terms. Is this the way of folk who have found peace? Would not there be for every absolute another absolute that dissolves it at it's root. He who creates the law, does he not create the crime. Is that not the source of evil. Did you not just say that evil does not exist but that we create it? And thanks a lot for your peaceful wishes that I be insane with fear and out of control next year. It's remarkable to me that you hear such voices from the peaceful silent Aeons of eternity. I do not believe because of choice but because I can't. The knowledge of everything I believed including faith was taken from me. I was left silent and amazed. I am nothing, not even a blip on a radar screen.

 

[shadow9d9]

The ACA is actually the embodiment of a conservative idea from 20 years ago proposed by the Heritage foundation, also embodied in Romney care in Massachusetts. It's not a liberal idea at all.

This is coming from a person that thinks democrats are "liberal." You are wasting your time.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

that dna is half from the girl and half from her rapist. You really think you have the right to dictate who a girl has a child with ?

every sperm and every egg can unite to form a unique human. Unless you think its "magic" there's no difference between saving every sperm and fertilizing every egg possible, and saving every fertilized egg.

That isn't "human".

He believes it's magic.

It is human, unique in it's DNA (so are certain forms of tumors too though but this has to do with religion "god breathed the soul into the egg at the time of fertilization") but it's not a living human being.

Per the definition of the end of life we SHOULD also be able to assert when life begins, if we use the same standard then human life begins at week 25 in the womb (when the cerebral cortex is active beyond random impulse).

Of course, logic and reason doesn't work when you are discussing the matter with people who are devoid of all such and have replaced it with superstitions and belief in magic.

 

[Moonbeam]

that dna is half from the girl and half from her rapist. You really think you have the right to dictate who a girl has a child with ?

every sperm and every egg can unite to form a unique human. Unless you think its "magic" there's no difference between saving every sperm and fertilizing every egg possible, and saving every fertilized egg.

That isn't "human".

He rationalizes rather than uses reason because he has made the assumption that life begins at conception and all his arguments are focused in that direction. Here what he is doing is equating species with person-hood. If you identify the species of a piece of your muscle tissue you will find it is human, and a unique one too, but you will not find a person. What a person is is all determined in ones head. It is something we humans who seem to really be persons decide. His definition is at conception but others argue for sometime after birth. I don't really know for sure, but I keep thinking that for the ancient Jews it was at some special time after birth, maybe something to do with naming.

I suspect cybrsage is in the funeral business and is trying to drum up more income. A fertilized egg that miscarries will have to have a proper funeral.

Or maybe he's a toy maker of tiny windup hearses.

 

[Jhhnn]

This is coming from a person that thinks democrats are "liberal." You are wasting your time.

Some Dems are "Liberal". Repubs are not "Liberal" at all. Today's Repubs are radical right reactionaries.

The ACA was what Dems could get in the way of healthcare reform. It's a compromise ridden mess, to be sure, but it attempts to address the issues in a way that blue dog Dems and corporate America can accept. Only Repub determination to make Healthcare reform Obama's Waterloo (their words) prevented them from signing on, because it was really their idea in the first place, 20 years ago, an alternative to Hillarycare. And, having taken a stand, they rarely (never) back down, period. It'll likely be the last phase in our private healthcare system before we move on to universal healthcare paid for with tax monies.

It's inevitable, given the massive shift of income to the tippy-top. Well, unless the Lootocracy reverses course, steers us back towards the income distribution curve of 30 years ago. Fat chance of that, huh?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

He rationalizes rather than uses reason because he has made the assumption that life begins at conception and all his arguments are focused in that direction. Here what he is doing is equating species with person-hood. If you identify the species of a piece of your muscle tissue you will find it is human, and a unique one too, but you will not find a person. What a person is is all determined in ones head. It is something we humans who seem to really be persons decide. His definition is at conception but others argue for sometime after birth. I don't really know for sure, but I keep thinking that for the ancient Jews it was at some special time after birth, maybe something to do with naming.

I suspect cybrsage is in the funeral business and is trying to drum up more income. A fertilized egg that miscarries will have to have a proper funeral.

Or maybe he's a toy maker of tiny windup hearses.

Considering that 70% of all fertilized eggs end up as miscarriages he'd make a killing.

 

[Moonbeam]

Considering that 70% of all fertilized eggs end up as miscarriages he'd make a killing.

Plus think of all those who will die from coat hangers.

 

[Tom]

Here's the scary part. A few buffoons make mistakes and say in public what a much larger group only speak about amongst themselves.

There's a hairsbreadth of difference between these people's treating girls as breeders and the horror of trying to kill a girl because she believes girls have a right to an education.

 

[Onceler]

God did not intend for the rape to occur nor did He intend for the baby to be born.