GOP pundit: "GOP working class communities deserve to die"

[Jhhnn]

Wow. Thats good stuff right there

How right you are.

 

[sandorski]

What Vote for Clinton, An establishment candidate who also works for the same people.

Or not Vote. Depends on what is the motivation. If fixing the Republican Party is the reason, voting for Trump doesn't fix that.

 

[interchange]

Please. Leadership matters. Power matters. Hedge fund ownership disavows obligation to everybody save the principals. They deal in abstractions, not human lives.

Please identify the "they" in your last sentence.
Please quantify their degree of power in the United States.
Please quantify the degree to which you believe they control who America elects as our governmental representatives.
Please tell me if you have ever interacted with someone who is on this list.
Please tell me if you have ever had a boss who is on this list.
Please tell me the degree to which "they" influence your employment.

Of course these things matter. Of course there are people who do seriously fraudulent and inhumane things due to greed.

And then of course, there are those who are just real people. There are organizational structures in business because they are necessary to have business. There are varying degrees of narcissism within business. Although, if an employee lies to me and cuts corners and shows no interest in collaborating on the right thing to do instead of finding out the minimum they can get away with, it bypasses the whole empathy thing right there.

I happen to believe that almost all of our interactions with others in our real lives have nothing to do with the "they" you reference. Yet, the culture of narcissistic overlord vs. entitled underling permeates every interaction we have where a power dynamic exists. We don't make progress by reinforcing it.

 

[theeedude]

Republicans think that drugs and alcoholism are the cause, not a symptom of white working class' problems.
When in reality, it's just a usual failed state indicator.

 

[interchange]

Republicans think that drugs and alcoholism are the cause, not a symptom of white working class' problems.
When in reality, it's just a usual failed state indicator.

That's painting broad strokes about republicans.

That said, you are 100% correct in your assertion. Alcohol, benzodiazepines, and opiates in particular are great drugs for escaping reality.

In my experience, though, the awfulness of reality is not generally what causes people to want to escape. People with severe physical and mental illness, people who are dying, etc. often amaze me with their ability to approach their own problems. That said, the things which change this are perception of rejection by others or fears that your problems will harm those that you care about, uncertainty about course of illness, belief that one cannot face their problems independent of illness, and the ability of the physician to empathetically build an alliance with the patient without being afraid of talking about the reality of their illness.

Funny. I think the same thing applies outside of medicine/illness. Being human, we are forced to rely on each other. Sure would be nice if we were better at finding middle ground and weren't afraid to express our feelings about each other, even if they might be negative.

 

[michal1980]

Republicans think that drugs and alcoholism are the cause, not a symptom of white working class' problems.
When in reality, it's just a usual failed state indicator.

ahh typical liberal response.

no self responsibility. Everything bad that happens to one is the fault of the evil white man.

Someone else made me steal.
Someone else made me drink.
Someone else made me do drugs.
Someone else made me poor.

Always the fault of someone else, why wont someone else make me rich?

 

[BoberFett]

Please identify the "they" in your last sentence.
Please quantify their degree of power in the United States.
Please quantify the degree to which you believe they control who America elects as our governmental representatives.
Please tell me if you have ever interacted with someone who is on this list.
Please tell me if you have ever had a boss who is on this list.
Please tell me the degree to which "they" influence your employment.

Of course these things matter. Of course there are people who do seriously fraudulent and inhumane things due to greed.

And then of course, there are those who are just real people. There are organizational structures in business because they are necessary to have business. There are varying degrees of narcissism within business. Although, if an employee lies to me and cuts corners and shows no interest in collaborating on the right thing to do instead of finding out the minimum they can get away with, it bypasses the whole empathy thing right there.

I happen to believe that almost all of our interactions with others in our real lives have nothing to do with the "they" you reference. Yet, the culture of narcissistic overlord vs. entitled underling permeates every interaction we have where a power dynamic exists. We don't make progress by reinforcing it.

You need to post more. Very insightful stuff in this thread.

 

[interchange]

ahh typical liberal response.

no self responsibility. Everything bad that happens to one is the fault of the evil white man.

Someone else made me steal.
Someone else made me drink.
Someone else made me do drugs.
Someone else made me poor.

Always the fault of someone else, why wont someone else make me rich?

That's painting broad strokes about liberals.

That said, you are 100% correct in your assertion. Alcohol, benzodiazepines, and opiates in particular are great drugs for escaping reality.

In my experience, though, the awfulness of reality is not generally what causes people to want to escape. People with severe physical and mental illness, people who are dying, etc. often amaze me with their ability to approach their own problems. That said, the things which change this are perception of rejection by others or fears that your problems will harm those that you care about, uncertainty about course of illness, belief that one cannot face their problems independent of illness, and the ability of the physician to empathetically build an alliance with the patient without being afraid of talking about the reality of their illness.

Funny. I think the same thing applies outside of medicine/illness. Being human, we are forced to rely on each other. Sure would be nice if we were better at finding middle ground and weren't afraid to express our feelings about each other, even if they might be negative.

 

[theeedude]

ahh typical liberal response.

no self responsibility. Everything bad that happens to one is the fault of the evil white man.

Someone else made me steal.
Someone else made me drink.
Someone else made me do drugs.
Someone else made me poor.

Always the fault of someone else, why wont someone else make me rich?

Keep telling yourself that while the white working class dies off.
It's typical failed state stuff. Increase in alcoholism and drug use accompanied with falling life expectancy.

 

[Jhhnn]

Please identify the "they" in your last sentence.
Please quantify their degree of power in the United States.
Please quantify the degree to which you believe they control who America elects as our governmental representatives.
Please tell me if you have ever interacted with someone who is on this list.
Please tell me if you have ever had a boss who is on this list.
Please tell me the degree to which "they" influence your employment.

Of course these things matter. Of course there are people who do seriously fraudulent and inhumane things due to greed.

And then of course, there are those who are just real people. There are organizational structures in business because they are necessary to have business. There are varying degrees of narcissism within business. Although, if an employee lies to me and cuts corners and shows no interest in collaborating on the right thing to do instead of finding out the minimum they can get away with, it bypasses the whole empathy thing right there.

I happen to believe that almost all of our interactions with others in our real lives have nothing to do with the "they" you reference. Yet, the culture of narcissistic overlord vs. entitled underling permeates every interaction we have where a power dynamic exists. We don't make progress by reinforcing it.

Please refrain from being deliberately obtuse. None of that mattered when Mitt & pals offshored Delphi or when Simmons & a lot of other companies got looted & dumped.

It's all abstraction, numbers on the balance sheet.

 

[lopri]

It's a GOP attack on GOP folks. I suggest it be discussed as such.

(isn't there already a thread about this, btw?)

 

[Jhhnn]

It's a GOP attack on GOP folks. I suggest it be discussed as such.

(isn't there already a thread about this, btw?)

It's snake oil salesmen running from the tar & feathers.

 

[disappoint]

You need to post more. Very insightful stuff in this thread.

Is this your way of telling us you think you need a psychiatrist?

 

[BoberFett]

Is this your way of telling us you think you need a psychiatrist?

Not at all, the voices tell me I'm just fine.

 

[VRAMdemon]

That's painting broad strokes about liberals.

That said, you are 100% correct in your assertion. Alcohol, benzodiazepines, and opiates in particular are great drugs for escaping reality.

In my experience, though, the awfulness of reality is not generally what causes people to want to escape. People with severe physical and mental illness, people who are dying, etc. often amaze me with their ability to approach their own problems. That said, the things which change this are perception of rejection by others or fears that your problems will harm those that you care about, uncertainty about course of illness, belief that one cannot face their problems independent of illness, and the ability of the physician to empathetically build an alliance with the patient without being afraid of talking about the reality of their illness.

Funny. I think the same thing applies outside of medicine/illness. Being human, we are forced to rely on each other. Sure would be nice if we were better at finding middle ground and weren't afraid to express our feelings about each other, even if they might be negative.

Well done with both replies about the different demographics..

If they're "terrible people" (as in, chronically unemployed and into drugs) it may be because their environment is terrible, not because they're genetically predisposed to be bad people.

Has anyone ever heard of the Rat Park experiment? If you put a rat in a cage with a choice between a regular water bottle and a water bottle laced with cocaine, the rat will keep going for the cocaine, often killing itself by overdosing. But there's a twist to the story.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/the-real-cause-of-addicti_b_6506936.html

in the 1970s, a professor of Psychology in Vancouver called Bruce Alexander noticed something odd about this experiment. The rat is put in the cage all alone. It has nothing to do but take the drugs. What would happen, he wondered, if we tried this differently? So Professor Alexander built Rat Park. It is a lush cage where the rats would have colored balls and the best rat-food and tunnels to scamper down and plenty of friends: everything a rat about town could want. What, Alexander wanted to know, will happen then?

In Rat Park, all the rats obviously tried both water bottles, because they didn't know what was in them. But what happened next was startling.

The rats with good lives didn't like the drugged water. They mostly shunned it, consuming less than a quarter of the drugs the isolated rats used. None of them died. While all the rats who were alone and unhappy became heavy users, none of the rats who had a happy environment did.

At first, I thought this was merely a quirk of rats, until I discovered that there was -- at the same time as the Rat Park experiment -- a helpful human equivalent taking place. It was called the Vietnam War. Time magazine reported using heroin was "as common as chewing gum" among U.S. soldiers, and there is solid evidence to back this up: some 20 percent of U.S. soldiers had become addicted to heroin there, according to a study published in the Archives of General Psychiatry. Many people were understandably terrified; they believed a huge number of addicts were about to head home when the war ended.

But in fact some 95 percent of the addicted soldiers -- according to the same study -- simply stopped. Very few had rehab. They shifted from a terrifying cage back to a pleasant one, so didn't want the drug any more.

What if rural apalachians and urban minorities are just like the caged rats in the experiments? Take them out of their cage (the crappy social conditions they are in) and I suspect they'd behave a lot differently.

 

[Mursilis]

Fascinating studies - thanks for posting those.

What if rural apalachians and urban minorities are just like the caged rats in the experiments? Take them out of their cage (the crappy social conditions they are in) and I suspect they'd behave a lot differently.

But how? That's the million dollar question. Breaking these cycles seems incredibly hard.

 

[JSt0rm]

they voted against their interests for the last 30 years because ideology. Yes they deserve to die.

 

[michal1980]

they voted against their interests for the last 30 years because ideology. Yes they deserve to die.

Arent you a nice liberal.

If you don't vote for the left you should die.

 

[michal1980]

Well done with both replies about the different demographics..

If they're "terrible people" (as in, chronically unemployed and into drugs) it may be because their environment is terrible, not because they're genetically predisposed to be bad people.

Has anyone ever heard of the Rat Park experiment? If you put a rat in a cage with a choice between a regular water bottle and a water bottle laced with cocaine, the rat will keep going for the cocaine, often killing itself by overdosing. But there's a twist to the story.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/the-real-cause-of-addicti_b_6506936.html

in the 1970s, a professor of Psychology in Vancouver called Bruce Alexander noticed something odd about this experiment. The rat is put in the cage all alone. It has nothing to do but take the drugs. What would happen, he wondered, if we tried this differently? So Professor Alexander built Rat Park. It is a lush cage where the rats would have colored balls and the best rat-food and tunnels to scamper down and plenty of friends: everything a rat about town could want. What, Alexander wanted to know, will happen then?

What if rural apalachians and urban minorities are just like the caged rats in the experiments? Take them out of their cage (the crappy social conditions they are in) and I suspect they'd behave a lot differently.

Unlike rats in a cage these people have the freedom to leave. A majority of the cage they live in is self built.

But no one on the left can come to that conclusion its always someone elses fault.

(unless you are blaming illegal immigrants, then no its not the illegal immigrants fault for taking the jobs of legal persons, and lowering wages for everyone. Especially if that illegal is brown, then they are a super special person that can never be criticized. )

 

[ivwshane]

Unlike rats in a cage these people have the freedom to leave. A majority of the cage they live in is self built.

But no one on the left can come to that conclusion its always someone elses fault.

(unless you are blaming illegal immigrants, then no its not the illegal immigrants fault for taking the jobs of legal persons, and lowering wages for everyone. Especially if that illegal is brown, then they are a super special person that can never be criticized. )

So which is it? Is it their own fault or is it brown people's fault? If you weren't so stupid, always, I'd ask you to explain your contradiction. Instead, your M.O. tells me you will crawl back into the hole from which you came.

 

[JSt0rm]

Arent you a nice liberal.

If you don't vote for the left you should die.

Not that kind of die dummy.

 

[VRAMdemon]

Fascinating studies - thanks for posting those.



But how? That's the million dollar question. Breaking these cycles seems incredibly hard.

Yes sir, I agree..that is the million dollar question. It requires a mass scope of analysis. Many hardcore Trump supporters and hardcore Sanders supporters face many of the same issue's going forward, they just come from different demographic's and many are to busy demonizing one another to realize this. One could argue that both Trump and Sanders voters agree that the system is rigged. But they disagree about who is doing the rigging and what the solution should be. A strong leader(s) to bring them together as one would be a good first start...

 

[michal1980]

So which is it? Is it their own fault or is it brown people's fault? If you weren't so stupid, always, I'd ask you to explain your contradiction. Instead, your M.O. tells me you will crawl back into the hole from which you came.

Well the writer of this article which your side disagrees with is saying that its their own fault. (not brown peoples fault)

Trump blames brown people. Liberals love illegals so they cant blame brown people, but will blame others.

Truth is somewhere in between, people have to take responsibility for their actions. But only an idiot would deny that millions of illegals lower wages and take jobs from legal citizens.

 

[JSt0rm]

pretty sure people in those communities aren't commuting to LA to be my maid.

No. Those people lost their jobs because they are globalized out of the country. They were too stupid not to vote for it. They were too stupid to not be single issue voters. They deserve it basically. No worries though. I try to buy American made as much as possible.

 

[lopri]

The question presented to this forum's GOP'ers by the column is: Do you agree with Kevin Williamson, that these working class voters are losers and their communities need to die off?

If you agree, then you are against your party's front-runner in presidential primary.
If you disagree, then your rant against liberals rings hollow.

It appears the GOP'ers on this forum do not seem conflicted at all by whatever position they take (no surprise there), but that is the dilemma that some GOP thinkers are trying to solve. Mindless attacking liberals, sadly, does not get you anywhere when the fight is happening inside the party.