GOP please make the Christian case for your policies.

[Mursilis]

This made me lol.

"I don't want to rely on the government for my well being. I want to rely on a mystical, invisible man to take care of me instead."

You're still shirking responsibility for yourself simply onto a different crutch -- some use government assistance as a crutch, some use "god."

But then, people relying on a diety don't cost me anything. However, the people relying on gov't are bankrupting the nation. I'd prefer more people relied on God then.

 

[FerrelGeek]

The OP needs to go and take a look at why a significant number of hospitals in this country have 'St.' as part of their name. The OP could also go and look up the history of organizations like World Vision and see the good they've done over the years. The OP would do well to look into who played a significant role in the early relief efforts that occurred after the big tsunami in 2004 and the earthquake that devastated Haiti this year. The OP, if he weren't a flaming troll, would find countless example of Christian charity throughout the world, funded by many very generous people here in the US and other parts of the world as well. How does the OP feel about being generous with other people's money; basically what our government does? How much of the OP's money and time has he donated to charity?

 

[sandorski]

But then, people relying on a diety don't cost me anything. However, the people relying on gov't are bankrupting the nation. I'd prefer more people relied on God then.

Oh they most certainly do when their god fails to deliver Healthcare.

 

[Mursilis]

Oh they most certainly do when their god fails to deliver Healthcare.

They just need to pray harder!
There's not a religion in the country that can force me to give them a dime . . . except that religion called gov't.

 

[Carmen813]

I wasn't aware that Jesus said anywhere in the bible that charity must be forced and wealth redistributed by force of law.

So why must they justify their opinions with their religion?

Isn't he the guy that went around healing people for free and destroying merchant exchanges in the church? HA I WIN!

 

[nick1985]

I like how this thread isnt locked

 

[LumbergTech]

But then, people relying on a diety don't cost me anything. However, the people relying on gov't are bankrupting the nation. I'd prefer more people relied on God then.

yes, it must be the people relying on government and not that our country is turning to a service model where we dont produce very many things

 

[Bird222]

The OP needs to go and take a look at why a significant number of hospitals in this country have 'St.' as part of their name. The OP could also go and look up the history of organizations like World Vision and see the good they've done over the years. The OP would do well to look into who played a significant role in the early relief efforts that occurred after the big tsunami in 2004 and the earthquake that devastated Haiti this year. The OP, if he weren't a flaming troll, would find countless example of Christian charity throughout the world, funded by many very generous people here in the US and other parts of the world as well. How does the OP feel about being generous with other people's money; basically what our government does? How much of the OP's money and time has he donated to charity?

What the hell are you talking about? You seem to be making the case for Christians being charitable and that is not the question. Also, why do I have to be troll when I am asking Christian R's do they see support for their policies in the bible, particularly the teachings of Jesus. I have been respectful of the people that have responded seriously. Like I told someone else, please don't post here unless you have something constructive to add.

 

[Bird222]

Surely their are more GOP Christians that can offer their thoughts.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Getting involved in these threads are almost never productive, especially when arguing about my faith. Additionally, it is very difficult to keep up with the swarm of traffic and insults that people who disagree with a Christian perspective throw this way (*Note*: This is not to say that insults and swarms of internet traffic are strictly limited to non-Christians).

I think most Christians who posted here somewhat echoed my thoughts.

In short, I don't want to be forced to give to the poor. I give my time and money to help those less fortunate than me already.

Additionally, both Liberals, Independents, and Conservatives alike can agree that Government is not an efficient machine that ingests our taxes and sends them right now nice and neat a few seconds later. Why should my money spend time in there when I can, if I choose, simply give it directly to an organize I feel led to donate to.

I'm not sure what you mean about 'War' being something that Conservatives and Christians like. Sometimes action to defend ourselves is necessary, I support that. That doesn't mean I like war. Maybe I misunderstood what you were getting at - did you want Biblical passages that explain when war is necessary and what not?

Honestly looking over your list of questions, they seem more like a political agenda rather than a religious agenda. I'm not sure how you want me to argue based on my faith about Minimum Wage and what not.

Sorry if my post is a bit unorganized. I'm simply struggling to understand what you want me to argue about from a religious stand point.

-Kevin

 

[EXman]

How many of these dumb "I'm butthurt because the public voted in a way I don't like" threads do we need?

This!

I smell a bigot. Anyways OP open up a bible and find out for yourself.

Then go look at charities and see how many are Christian compared to Atheist. Look at Who gives to Charities. It ain't the Dems.

 

[EXman]

I like how this thread isnt locked

lol telling...

 

[spittledip]

For those that consider yourselves Christian, I really am interested in hearing your biblical support for the GOP's positions on things like:

Healthcare
Welfare
War
Minimum wage
Taxes

and any other issues you would like to present.

Let me first make it clear that I am not a republican. I think the Republican party does not represent God anymore than the democratic party. They may represent some sides of issues that Christians agree with, but democrats do as well. However, the republican party as well as the democratic party in most ways are anti-God.

There are things that God calls Christians to do individually and as the Church body. The church does engage in providing healthcare in various forms as well as assistance to the poor etc. This is separate from how we participate with the government.

As some have posted already, welfare and poverty assistance programs in this country do more harm than good to the people who receive the assistance generally speaking. This is, of course, partly by design to create a dependent base of voters. However, as I have also said before, I do not think that means we can pull the plug on these programs b/c people need to eat and survive and receive healthcare. If the individuals receiving the aid decide to live as leeches for the rest of their lives and play the system the best they can, that is on them. Exploitation of a system is a wrong committed by the ones who exploit the system. The wrong is between them and God. I do think it is partly our job (although our power to change things seems very limited in this country) to change the system for the better.

My position from the above paragraph is due to my understanding of what God desires- if any of you are familiar with the old testament prophets, it is very clear that one of God's main sources for His anger against Israel and other nations was their lack of mercy, justice and compassion. God also makes it clear throughout the Bible that He is interested in the poor being helped. During the Theocracy (as written in the books of the law) God even instituted several socialistic "programs" of sorts. As Christians, it seems that we should not fight against systems that provide assistance for the poor b/c it is God's desire that we make sure the poor are provide for, one way or the other. The system is heavily flawed and should be changed.

The verse quoted from Thessalonian is something that applied to a certain circumstance within the Thessalonian church. Individuals who were supposed to be Christians were leeching off the other members and were apprently being disruptive in other ways. They were not working and had lots of time on their hands and they caused trouble instead of working. It is best to take a verse of scripture in context otherwise the meaning may be distorted:

6 In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers and sisters, to keep away from every believer who is idle and disruptive and does not live according to the teaching[a] you received from us. 7 For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, 8 nor did we eat anyone’s food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. 9 We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you to imitate. 10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”

11 We hear that some among you are idle and disruptive. They are not busy; they are busybodies. 12 Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the food they eat. 13 And as for you, brothers and sisters, never tire of doing what is good.

14 Take special note of anyone who does not obey our instruction in this letter. Do not associate with them, in order that they may feel ashamed. 15 Yet do not regard them as an enemy, but warn them as you would a fellow believer.

Taxes- As with alot of government laws, the Bible is pretty clear that we should obey them unless they go against scripture. As someone already quoted, Jesus said to give to Caesar what is Caesar's, but to give to God what is God's (the image of Caesar being on the coin and God's image being on man) In other words, men should be giving themselves to God, which is much more important than money, which is a 2-fold point of the scripture. Another passage on this matter:
Romans 13

1Every (A)person is to be in (B)subjection to the governing authorities For (C)there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

2Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.

3For (D)rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same;

4for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an (E)avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.

5Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also (F)for conscience' sake.

6For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing.

War- Throughout the New Testament, God makes it pretty clear that Christians are not supposed to kill anyone at all, so I do not think that Christians should be pro-war. However, this is not to say that Christians should be against defending their country in legitimate wars, such as the WWs. Going to war for gain is certainly not a Christian thing. Killing people in the name of Christ is absurdity. Anyone who thinks God has called them to kill people is not communicating with God. Anything that goes against scripture is not of God.

Minimum wage- Chalk this up to mercy and justice- God does not want people defrauded. Scripture is pretty clear about this throughout.

Environment- There are so many passages that talk about the beauty of the creation and its splendor, and also this Passage:

Luke 12:6 (New American Standard Bible)

6"Are not (A)five sparrows sold for two cents? Yet not one of them is forgotten before God.

God is pro-environment and wants it cherished, not destroyed.

Etc...

 

[Bird222]

I'm not sure what you mean about 'War' being something that Conservatives and Christians like. Sometimes action to defend ourselves is necessary, I support that. That doesn't mean I like war. Maybe I misunderstood what you were getting at - did you want Biblical passages that explain when war is necessary and what not?

Honestly looking over your list of questions, they seem more like a political agenda rather than a religious agenda. I'm not sure how you want me to argue based on my faith about Minimum Wage and what not.

Sorry if my post is a bit unorganized. I'm simply struggling to understand what you want me to argue about from a religious stand point.

-Kevin

I wanted this to be kinda open ended. I listed a few examples to 'help', but that was not meant to be an exhaustive list. Of course, you can list passages that explain when war is necessary. I am particular interested on Jesus's statements on the subject. I don't think there is an agenda one way or the other, I just want to see what if any biblical support Christians use in support of the GOP policies.

 

[Bird222]

This!

I smell a bigot. Anyways OP open up a bible and find out for yourself.

Then go look at charities and see how many are Christian compared to Atheist. Look at Who gives to Charities. It ain't the Dems.

First this isn't about me proving out the GOP's policies. I asked Christian GOP members to provide biblical support for their view. The burden is on them. Understand? In addition, this is about alot more than doing charitable work.

 

[RightIsWrong]

I would like to see evidence its the GOP or Dem's fault that a third party isnt being elected into federal office. Last time I checked, we could vote for whoever we wanted. Just because a politcal candidate outspends a third party candidate in a campaign 4:1 certainly doesnt change the fact its still up to voters to get someone into office.

How about the fact that the state of Michigan refused a petition that met all of the legal guidelines for admission on the ballot for a "Tea Party" movement?

A state election board in Michigan has refused to certify a new political party called The Tea Party for the November election ballot. But the push to block ballot access for this Tea Party came from members of the Tea Party movement in Michigan. They allege the whole thing was part of a plan hatched by Democrats.

It is one of several places around the country this year where potential third-party movements are looking to capture votes of discontented independents.

The petitions contained nearly 60,000 signatures — far more than the required 38,000. Except nobody affiliated with the Tea Party movement in the state had even heard of the plan to field a slate of candidates under the Tea Party name in November.

............

"What it does is it splits the Republican Party and it gives the Democrats more control over what's going on," Mitts said. "What we want to do is support candidates who follow the Constitution."

It's funny that those that fought the formation of an actual Tea Party were doing so on the grounds that it would "hurt the Republican" efforts. What's even funnier is that they think that the Republican or the Democrats even know how to spell Constitution let alone are willing to follow it.

Here's a couple more:

Florida: Republicans and tea party activists are accusing Democratic U.S. Rep. Alan Grayson and a Republican consultant of forming a front group, the Florida Tea Party, to help Democratic candidates in state and congressional races, including Grayson.

Michigan: A Democratic official was forced to resign his party position after being accused of fraudulently notarizing campaign filings for a dozen so-called tea party candidates. The 23 candidates statewide who were supposedly representing tea parties have been denied ballot positions

In Arkansas, it took the evil ACLU to get state election laws changed to actually allow third party candidates access to the ballot:

“This is a great victory for the people of Arkansas,” said Rita Sklar, Executive Director of the ACLU of Arkansas, which filed this case jointly with the ACLU Voting Rights Project. “Arkansans who want to run for political office and have political views different from those of the Democratic or Republican parties can now more easily participate in the political process. Voters also win because they are given more opportunity to support candidates who reflect their political views.”

Here's the fables Harvard Law Review not only discussing the difficulties of a third party candidate to get on the ballot, but also listing court cases where they were denied and even citing a Supreme Court Justice's claim that we only need two parties:

Today, as in 1958, ballot access for minor parties and Independents remains convoluted and discriminatory. Though certain state ballot access statutes are better, and a few Supreme Court decisions (Williams v. Rhodes, 393 U.S. 23 (1968), Anderson v. Celebrezze, 460 U.S. 780 (1983)) have been generally favorable, on the whole, the process-and the cumulative burden it places on these federal candidates-may be best described as antagonistic. The jurisprudence of the Court remains hostile to minor party and Independent candidates, and this antipathy can be seen in at least a half dozen cases decided since Nader's article, including Jenness v. Fortson, 403 U.S. 431 (1971), American Party of Tex. v. White, 415 U.S. 767 (1974), Munro v. Socialist Workers Party, 479 U.S. 189 (1986), Burdick v. Takushi, 504 U.S. 428 (1992), and Arkansas Ed. Television Comm'n v. Forbes, 523 U.S. 666 (1998).

Justice Rehnquist, for example, writing for a 6-3 divided Court in Timmons v. Twin Cities Area New Party, 520 U.S. 351 (1997), spells out the Court's bias for the "two-party system," even though the word "party" is nowhere to be found in the Constitution. He wrote that "The Constitution permits the Minnesota Legislature to decide that political stability is best served through a healthy two-party system. And while an interest in securing the perceived benefits of a stable two-party system will not justify unreasonably exclusionary restrictions, States need not remove all the many hurdles third parties face in the American political arena today." 520 U.S. 351, 366-67.

Should I continue? I can find you hundreds, if not thousands of examples where both corrupt parties whose sole purpose is their own forward movement have only wanted a third party candidate on the ballot when it would give their side the advantage by taking votes away from the other candidate.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

This!

I smell a bigot. Anyways OP open up a bible and find out for yourself.

Then go look at charities and see how many are Christian compared to Atheist. Look at Who gives to Charities. It ain't the Dems.

First this isn't about me proving out the GOP's policies. I asked Christian GOP members to provide biblical support for their view. The burden is on them. Understand? In addition, this is about alot more than doing charitable work.

If this isn't about your apparent bigotry...then tell me...what exactly is this about?

 

[Bird222]

I think it is pretty clear. I am starting with the assumption that God is more important to these folks than politics (admittedly I may be incorrect with that assumption) so I am asking for their justification of their views. It may be that their political views aren't supported by Jesus, that's fine too, but I really would like to see if there is biblical support though.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

I think it is pretty clear. I am starting with the assumption that God is more important to these folks than politics (admittedly I may be incorrect with that assumption) so I am asking for their justification of their views. It may be that their political views aren't supported by Jesus, that's fine too, but I really would like to see if there is biblical support though.

I imagine that the validity of the justification of their views is very similar to the validity of the justification of your views.

 

[Jaskalas]

GOP please make the Christian case for your policies.

You shall not make for yourself an idol. In other words, do not worship false prophets.

 

[sao123]

I think it is pretty clear. I am starting with the assumption that God is more important to these folks than politics (admittedly I may be incorrect with that assumption) so I am asking for their justification of their views. It may be that their political views aren't supported by Jesus, that's fine too, but I really would like to see if there is biblical support though.

while your assumption might be true for many republicans... it has seemingly led you astray in your thinking.

you seem to forget that there are 2 primary things about a polital candidate which many people consider. Economic Policy and Social Policy.
You seem to believe that christians should not vote republican because of the their views on war/socialism, etc.

What you forget is most christians arent rich... therefore when voting social policy trumps economic policy. Most christians who vote repulican, do so because of conservative social policy... Republicans are currently the only party, which endorce: pro-life, anti-homosexual, anti-pornography, pro-religious expression.

youll notice, its democrats who want the 10 commandments removed from courthouses, under god removed from our pledge and money, pro-choice rights, remove prayer from schools, remove creationism from origins science... and I can go on.


If the democrats werent morons, they could have the overwhelming majority of social conservative on their side, but they dug their own grave.

 

[sao123]

If this isn't about your apparent bigotry...then tell me...what exactly is this about?

I guess he just wanted to be a troll.
once logic entered the thread, Op dissappeared.

 

[Phokus]

"...I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." -

"Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s"

Somehow rightwing Christians interpret this to mean 'lower wages/increase unemployment for the poor and middle class with outsourcing and cut taxes for the rich"

 

[JD50]

I think it is pretty clear. I am starting with the assumption that God is more important to these folks than politics (admittedly I may be incorrect with that assumption) so I am asking for their justification of their views. It may be that their political views aren't supported by Jesus, that's fine too, but I really would like to see if there is biblical support though.

Does it bother you that Barak Obama attended a hard core Christian church for many, many years?

 

[piasabird]

There are plenty of Christian Democrats.