GOP is Filibustering Hagel nomination

[Thump553]

http://www.brennancenter.org/press-...uster-abuse-paralyzes-senate-proposed-reforms

Good link, but it doesn't seem to give the stats I was looking for. I must admit, though, that a 2.8% passage rate of introduced bills is pretty pathethetically low.

I personally know for a fact that the filibuster rate is actively damaging US federal courts-for absolutely no valid reason. As I said in my earlier post I lay a lot of blame on the weak, reluctuant to take action "leadership" of Harry Reid. He's enabling this behavior.

 

[Fern]

Wow, a lot of the over-the-top rhetoric here. I suppose that's expected for ATP&N.

Firstly, this is not a filibuster per se. This is appropriate use of the cloture rules. The cloture rules exist to extend debate if parties believe that more debate is necessary.

From what I hear the vote is expected to take place next week, so it's not a filibuster.

I've heard several reasons for the delay.

1. Info was requested from Hagel previously and he has failed to provide it, specifically copies of (policy-type) speeches he has made.

2. There is concern he may have a financial conflict, he has also failed to produce the info requested about that.

3. Looks like some Senators are using this as leverage to get answers to questions about Benghazi from the Obama admin. I don't think that's what cloture is about, but this is politics in Washington.

I don't see how a week long delay to get Hagel to produce the relevant, or potentially relevant info is outrageous in any way. That info may sway some votes. Moreover, Senate votes on confirmation are a serious responsibility and will likely be an issue during reelection for some Senators. Getting the info about Hagel's speeches and financial info before deciding on a vote seems entirely prudent.

So much drama for a mere one week delay, much of which could have been avoided had Hagel promptly provided the info in the first place.

Fern

 

[TerryMathews]

Wow, a lot of the over-the-top rhetoric here. I suppose that's expected for ATP&N.

Firstly, this is not a filibuster per se. This is appropriate use of the cloture rules. The cloture rules exist to extend debate if parties believe that more debate is necessary.

From what I hear the vote is expected to take place next week, so it's not a filibuster.

I've heard several reasons for the delay.

1. Info was requested from Hagel previously and he has failed to provide it, specifically copies of (policy-type) speeches he has made.

2. There is concern he may have a financial conflict, he has also failed to produce the info requested about that.

3. Looks like some Senators are using this as leverage to get answers to questions about Benghazi from the Obama admin. I don't think that's what cloture is about, but this is politics in Washington.

I don't see how a week long delay to get Hagel to produce the relevant, or potentially relevant info is outrageous in any way. That info may sway some votes. Moreover, Senate votes on confirmation are a serious responsibility and will likely an issue during reelection for some Senators. Getting the info about Hagel's speeches and financial info before deciding on a vote seems entirely prudent.

So much drama for a mere one week delay, much of which could have been avoided had Hagel promptly provided the info in the first place.

Fern

Libretards gonna tard. /dominionseraph

 

[zinfamous]

Why is he not fit for the job?

I'm going to hold you guys to this. Just making blanket statements is not going to cut it. This reminds me all to much of the Bush years where people would just say "Well Bush is a Monkey" or "Bush is stupid" without actually discussing the issue.

because he said something that made Sheldon Adelson butthurt.

Adelson holds the strings of the GOP marionettes. Without true power (like the GOP has), all he can do is play the thorn in the side, and let the lapdogs in congress and the sheep at home repeat the same pablum over and over.

yeah, they don't understand why he isn't fit, just that Adelson and his cronies believe Israel is more important than the USA.

 

[zinfamous]

Wow, a lot of the over-the-top rhetoric here. I suppose that's expected for ATP&N.

Firstly, this is not a filibuster per se. This is appropriate use of the cloture rules. The cloture rules exist to extend debate if parties believe that more debate is necessary.

From what I hear the vote is expected to take place next week, so it's not a filibuster.

I've heard several reasons for the delay.

1. Info was requested from Hagel previously and he has failed to provide it, specifically copies of (policy-type) speeches he has made.

2. There is concern he may have a financial conflict, he has also failed to produce the info requested about that.

3. Looks like some Senators are using this as leverage to get answers to questions about Benghazi from the Obama admin. I don't think that's what cloture is about, but this is politics in Washington.

I don't see how a week long delay to get Hagel to produce the relevant, or potentially relevant info is outrageous in any way. That info may sway some votes. Moreover, Senate votes on confirmation are a serious responsibility and will likely an issue during reelection for some Senators. Getting the info about Hagel's speeches and financial info before deciding on a vote seems entirely prudent.

So much drama for a mere one week delay, much of which could have been avoided had Hagel promptly provided the info in the first place.

Fern

1 and 2 are understandable, especially 2. 1 is, well...likely unnecessary depending on the nature of the request, but mere politics.

3 isn't politics. it isn't even appropriate. It's simply fuel to stoke the conspiracists and yahoos. Giving them more than what has been freely available is akin to pandering to birthers. The undeniable truth is freely available to congress and to the people; it seems some just aren't happy with the truth.

 

[Bowfinger]

Wow, a lot of the over-the-top rhetoric here. I suppose that's expected for ATP&N.

Firstly, this is not a filibuster per se. This is appropriate use of the cloture rules. The cloture rules exist to extend debate if parties believe that more debate is necessary.

From what I hear the vote is expected to take place next week, so it's not a filibuster.

I've heard several reasons for the delay.

1. Info was requested from Hagel previously and he has failed to provide it, specifically copies of (policy-type) speeches he has made.

2. There is concern he may have a financial conflict, he has also failed to produce the info requested about that.

3. Looks like some Senators are using this as leverage to get answers to questions about Benghazi from the Obama admin. I don't think that's what cloture is about, but this is politics in Washington.

I don't see how a week long delay to get Hagel to produce the relevant, or potentially relevant info is outrageous in any way. That info may sway some votes. Moreover, Senate votes on confirmation are a serious responsibility and will likely an issue during reelection for some Senators. Getting the info about Hagel's speeches and financial info before deciding on a vote seems entirely prudent.

So much drama for a mere one week delay, much of which could have been avoided had Hagel promptly provided the info in the first place.

Fern

With all due respect Fern, I believe the "merely one week delay" is a new development. Graham's original announcement as I remember it was that he was going to block the nomination, not delay it. Further, there is nothing in the OP's link suggesting this was only a delay. Note that that link also refers to this as a filibuster. Whether that's sloppy reporting or a subsequent change in GOP tactics I don't know.

Finally, I think your partisan bias shows when you uncritically accept as fact the Republican claim that it's Hagel's fault for failing to provide information promptly. While that may, indeed be true, it is also a classic excuse used by obstructionists throughout time. Perhaps Hagel could have prevented the delay ... or perhaps Graham and his cohorts would have offered other excuses. The truth is buried under partisan bickering.

 

[irishScott]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...fb46-76d5-11e2-8f84-3e4b513b1a13_story_1.html

I could quote, but suffice it to say it's politicians being political. Just business as usual, nothing to see here. Democrats compare Republicans to Satan, Republicans insist they are defending freedom. Looking forward to the exact reversal next time a Republican's President.

 

[Ausm]

There is no purity test. Get over yourself.

Welcome to reality.....

http://news.yahoo.com/gop-purity-test-211300146.html

 

[Fern]

With all due respect Fern, I believe the "merely one week delay" is a new development. Graham's original announcement as I remember it was that he was going to block the nomination, not delay it. Further, there is nothing in the OP's link suggesting this was only a delay. Note that that link also refers to this as a filibuster. Whether that's sloppy reporting or a subsequent change in GOP tactics I don't know.

Finally, I think your partisan bias shows when you uncritically accept as fact the Republican claim that it's Hagel's fault for failing to provide information promptly. While that may, indeed be true, it is also a classic excuse used by obstructionists throughout time. Perhaps Hagel could have prevented the delay ... or perhaps Graham and his cohorts would have offered other excuses. The truth is buried under partisan bickering.

I've been hearing it's an expected one week delay for several days now. I'd guess that popped up when Reid decided to schedule the vote even though some Senators were still seeking the info from Hagel.

As to "partisan bias" I've been hearing about the lack of Hagel's data even before the vote took place. It's been in the news for quite a while.

Fern

 

[ivwshane]

Wow, a lot of the over-the-top rhetoric here. I suppose that's expected for ATP&N.

Firstly, this is not a filibuster per se. This is appropriate use of the cloture rules. The cloture rules exist to extend debate if parties believe that more debate is necessary.

From what I hear the vote is expected to take place next week, so it's not a filibuster.

I've heard several reasons for the delay.

1. Info was requested from Hagel previously and he has failed to provide it, specifically copies of (policy-type) speeches he has made.

2. There is concern he may have a financial conflict, he has also failed to produce the info requested about that.

3. Looks like some Senators are using this as leverage to get answers to questions about Benghazi from the Obama admin. I don't think that's what cloture is about, but this is politics in Washington.

I don't see how a week long delay to get Hagel to produce the relevant, or potentially relevant info is outrageous in any way. That info may sway some votes. Moreover, Senate votes on confirmation are a serious responsibility and will likely be an issue during reelection for some Senators. Getting the info about Hagel's speeches and financial info before deciding on a vote seems entirely prudent.

So much drama for a mere one week delay, much of which could have been avoided had Hagel promptly provided the info in the first place.

Fern

This is being done purely for personal reasons because hagel didn't go along with party lines. McCain has said so himself.

http://thinkprogress.org/?p=1598341&preview=true&mobile=wt

 

[Fern]

This is being done purely for personal reasons because hagel didn't go along with party lines. McCain has said so himself.

http://thinkprogress.org/?p=1598341&preview=true&mobile=wt

From what I'm hearing there are different Senators with their different reasons for wanting the delay.

I'm not sure how forcing a one week delay rises to some sort of 'payback'.

McCain certainly has a problem with Hagel's stance on the war, and with Hagels' opposition to the surge. I don't find that irrelevant considering the position of SecDef. If the progressive media wants to describe that as "not following party lines" so be it.

In any case, still much ado about nothing - McCain says he'll vote for cloture next week (or in 10 days upon reconvening).

Can't believe such a big deal is being out of a week's delay when we've 'delayed' having a federal budget for about 4 years, and a delay of a couple of years with regard to sequestration etc. It's not like the post is vacant, Panetta is still serving.

Fern

 

[Zebo]

because he said something that made Sheldon Adelson butthurt.

Adelson holds the strings of the GOP marionettes. Without true power (like the GOP has), all he can do is play the thorn in the side, and let the lapdogs in congress and the sheep at home repeat the same pablum over and over.

yeah, they don't understand why he isn't fit, just that Adelson and his cronies believe Israel is more important than the USA.

Israel Does not need us. We need them not to nuke and or decimate the ME because we and the world needs oil which is why we supply them so many conventional arms and tacit support. It's in our national intrest to play both the so called "jew lobby" and the oil lobbies at the same time for some stability. Why do you think presidents bow to Saudi rulers? Why did we just gave, in fact rushed delivery, 3b in F16's to fundi Egypt? Only rabid anti-Semites can't see this.

 

[werepossum]

Holy shit, even the English language you use exists in a fucking alternate reality:



ENGLISH MOTHERFUCKER, DO YOU SPEAK IT

GOP obstructionism was the BIGGEST reason you god damned idiot

THIS WAS A GOP HEALTHCARE PLAN YOU FUCKING NIMROD

The GOP didn't care whether it had single payer or not, whether it was their plan or not, they were set out to oppose ANYTHING the president proposed.

CLEARLY Obama wants some form of Single payer healthcare considering HE'S TRYING TO BACKDOOR IT

Dude, seriously. Your meds are your friends. Being so full of rage and so out of touch with reality cannot be good for you.

GOP obstructionism had absolutely zero affect on Obamacare with the exception of Vitter's Healthy Hooters amendment. Obama did not need Republicans, never consulted Republicans, never listened to Republicans - even support for Vitter's amendment came from liberal groups. Obamacare was written by Democrat staffers and/or lobbyists completely behind closed doors, and except for Vitter's common sense amendment is exactly as written. It is NOT a GOP health care plan; at the very most it incorporates some ideas proposed by some Republicans as a lesser evil to the truly horrible Hillarycare. Obamacare is exactly what he could get from his Democrat Senators, no more and no less.

The low ratings for Congress are funny, but easy to understand. Republicans hate Congress because of the Democrats, and Democrats hate Congress because of the Republicans. And independents hate Congress because of both. You'll never see an approval that low on the president, because some percentage of his party will approve of him even if he sacrifices a puppy on an altar and eats its heart on live TV.

And everyone only thinks their guys are great, it's the other guys that are the problem. Despite those low ratings, incumbents win by huge percentages every two years.

This, except most of us are not very fond of our guys either. Seems the things where we supposedly agree are the things they never really get around to introducing and the things where we disagree are the things that get pushed. I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal and damned near every small government conservative has a laundry list of social issues to push which empower government, or at the least don't empower individuals.

Since Reagan and Sasser (and ironically Frist, when he ran against Sasser), I've had no one at a federal level that I really wanted to support who actually got elected. Mostly it's a question of voting for the lesser evil. Gary Johnson is the closest to an ideal Presidential candidate in my lifetime, but he got nowhere.

Wow, a lot of the over-the-top rhetoric here. I suppose that's expected for ATP&N.

Firstly, this is not a filibuster per se. This is appropriate use of the cloture rules. The cloture rules exist to extend debate if parties believe that more debate is necessary.

From what I hear the vote is expected to take place next week, so it's not a filibuster.

I've heard several reasons for the delay.

1. Info was requested from Hagel previously and he has failed to provide it, specifically copies of (policy-type) speeches he has made.

2. There is concern he may have a financial conflict, he has also failed to produce the info requested about that.

3. Looks like some Senators are using this as leverage to get answers to questions about Benghazi from the Obama admin. I don't think that's what cloture is about, but this is politics in Washington.

I don't see how a week long delay to get Hagel to produce the relevant, or potentially relevant info is outrageous in any way. That info may sway some votes. Moreover, Senate votes on confirmation are a serious responsibility and will likely be an issue during reelection for some Senators. Getting the info about Hagel's speeches and financial info before deciding on a vote seems entirely prudent.

So much drama for a mere one week delay, much of which could have been avoided had Hagel promptly provided the info in the first place.

Fern

If they're filibustering because of requested information from Hagel then I absolutely support it in principle. For Hagel, though - almost every one of them know him personally, and Cabinet members don't have the autonomy of, say, federal judges. Serving at the President's pleasure, they are simply spear catchers/carriers who execute the President's policy (albeit hopefully with considerable input into that policy if they are well qualified) until needed to deflect (or if needed absorb) a threat. Even if Hagel has worked for/with anti-Israel groups, it's Obama's policy he'll be carrying out, not his own. Makes me wonder what information they can honestly need from Hagel.

I dislike Hagel and his politics, but I think in general the President deserves to have the Cabinet members he wants unless they are dishonest or grossly unqualified.

 

[Bird222]

Can't believe such a big deal is being out of a week's delay when we've 'delayed' having a federal budget for about 4 years, and a delay of a couple of years with regard to sequestration etc. It's not like the post is vacant, Panetta is still serving.

Fern

It's because people are sick and tired of obstruction on every motherfucking thing. Even who the president has in his cabinet which ought to be his choice barring some treasonous action by the nominee. Even McCain at one time said he would be proud to have Hagel be Sec. of Defense but now it's just block, block, block anything Obama wants.

 

[TerryMathews]

It's because people are sick and tired of obstruction on every motherfucking thing. Even who the president has in his cabinet which ought to be his choice barring some treasonous action by the nominee. Even McCain at one time said he would be proud to have Hagel be Sec. of Defense but now it's just block, block, block anything Obama wants.

If that were the case, then why does the Constitution grant the power of confirmation to the senate?

It's the debt ceiling all over again. These powers aren't invested in the executive FOR A REASON.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

This, except most of us are not very fond of our guys either.

Wrong "us". You're talking about high-information voters across the country; I'm talking geographically (meaning, a small percentage of high-information voters sprinkled around a big bunch of morons.)

Approval ratings for individual House members are far, far higher than for Congress as a whole.

 

[Throckmorton]

Oh, so now we're supposed to care about the unwritten rules, but only when the gop violates them. LOL



Like I said, it sounds exactly like what the gop was saying just a few short years ago. Things change, and changing the rules of the game just because you don't like the current score inevitably comes back to bite you in the butt. Tampering with rules that have worked for 200 years because the other side isn't playing ball with you is stomping your feet and throwing a tantrum, just like the gop was doing during GWB years.

How about making it so fillibustering requires actual fillibustering... do you oppose that?

 

[Winnie the Pooh]

Small communities become great through harmony; great ones fall into chaos through discord.

Wonder which one the U.S. is?

 

[cubby1223]

It feels more and more like the nomination, expedition of the vote, and predictable filibuster, was intentionally done to cause exactly this fight amongst us.

As if citizens in fights with other citizens is good for government.

 

[GMC12]

Well the GOP not only has set a record on the abuse of the Filibuster(Not to mention filibustering one of their own bills) but now they are filibustering President Obama's nomination for Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel.

The is a first for this Nation! Way to go GOP and you wonder why you have an image problem desperately in need of rebranding? LMAO!

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57569286/vote-scheduled-on-hagel-nomination-gop-filibustering/

I voted for Obama but I don't agree with who he pick for secretary of defences chuck hagel him and Obama have the same negative thinking of Israel and that not going to work at all America is the only friend they have. And IAM a Vietnam veteran to.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Sometimes, but it would be a stretch to say filibustering your own bill isn't abuse, which is something the GOP has actually done

Surely Democrats have never " filibustered their own bills