GOP files court action! - Apparently Contrary to Texas Law Bush Signed !!

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DefRef

Diamond Member
Nov 9, 2000
4,041
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Because Bush doesn't sit passively by as the Democrats try to steal another election (they even brought a Daley in to do it!), he gets called a hypocrite.

The Gore camp want to whip up public outcry and legal mumbo-jumbo to drag the process out until they can create a result that they can accept. (A WIN!)

About 100 million vote were cast nationwide, but the spread between them is less than 200,000 votes. The states that Gore won were either big urban states (NY, CA, MI) or were razor-thin margains (a couple of thousand votes). I wonder how many foreign ballots are gonna come in that got mailed TODAY, if you follow my meaning.

Some articles on the issue:

Slight of Hand
The Perils of Hand Counting
Beware of Hanging Chads

Some snips from the last one: (I've replaced the names with parties for clarity)

The Democrats' agenda was, of course, to change the election result, and they went about it systematically. At their urging, the recounting began with Dem's strongest precincts, GOP's weakest. Their intention was to recount ballots in those areas until the election outcome was reversed, and then stop the recount. Similarly, today in Florida, the Gore people are demanding hand recounts in their favored counties, where they would be most likely to gain.

But the order in which the precincts are recounted isn't the only thing that matters: As I learned firsthand, the recounting process itself affords plenty of opportunity for tampering with ballots.

Their hired guns tried lots of tricks on Dem's behalf, but what I remember most was the hanging chads. A chad is the perforated square (or circle) on the ballot that a voter depresses with a pin to indicate his preferred candidate...This matters because voter machines usually are not able to tabulate cards with hanging chads.

It often comes down to interpreting the voter's intention. Does the chad hang "strongly" ? i.e, detached only a little ? meaning that it is a mistake that should not be counted? Or does it hang loosely ? i.e., mostly detached ? as an intended vote would be?


This is the key part

What my lawyers soon discovered was that the opposition would eyeball a disputed ballot before picking it up to officially inspect it. If the hanging chad indicated a vote for GOP, the lawyer for the other side picked up the ballot ever so carefully, so he could argue that the voter really never intended to vote for GOP. If the hanging chad was a Dem vote, the lawyer picked up the ballot quite vigorously, so that the chad soon was no longer hanging. "You see," their guy would declare, "that voter obviously intended to vote for Dem."

This is the core of the Bush opposition to hand-counting. The Dems have a long history of monkeying with the process to attain their goals.
 

ride525

Golden Member
Oct 14, 1999
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<< Does anyone else find it interesting that the &quot;media estimates&quot; had President-Elect Bush up by 327 votes, but when the REAL numbers come out, the spread is nearly three times higher, at 961 votes.

The bottom line is that these ballots have already been counted FOUR times per ballot. The process is complete. There is NO legitimate reason to hand count anything.
>>



Russ, I think the discrepency between the 327 votes and 961 is Palm Beach county which first showed in the totals, then was removed.

And...have I miscounted the number of recounts? :)
I thought there was one count on election day, then one recount (which still doesn't show complete), only 66 of 67 counties show. I think that there has been requests for manual recounts in a few counties. So, I think there have been two counts, plus just a start of a third count.
How do you get four ballot counts?

This election is too close....Let's make sure that everyone's vote is properly counted.....all the punches removed and accounted for

 

Shuxclams

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
9,286
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The National Review? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Now that is funny, I am going to start posting Bill Press's opinions as if they were fact and see if that helps. Another sheep.



<< And...have I miscounted the number of recounts? <i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif>
I thought there was one count on election day, then one recount )which still doesn't show complete), only 66 of 67 counties show. I think that there has been requests for manual recounts in a few counties.
>>



No there has been one completed count, that was found to be within the .5% so a second count was automatic, that automatic recount has not been completed therefore the election results are not final until the 17th. So it's one count. As for the hand count that is a request for 4 counties, 3 of which have granted that request, so 3 counties out of 67 hardly make it a 3rd recount.


SHUX
 

Kanly

Senior member
Oct 23, 1999
922
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&quot;legal mumbo-jumbo&quot;

Which campaign filed a FEDERAL lawsuit seeking to suppress the legally required recount in FL? I don't the Gore campaign is a party in any suit right now. Bush doesn't trust the people. He trusts a Federal judge. Who will throw the case out.

&quot;At their urging, the recounting began with Dem's strongest precincts, GOP's weakest.&quot;

By FL law, you have up to 72 hours after an election to ask for a recount in whatever county you want. If Bush wanted to, he could have requested recounts in other counties.

All those links are from the National Review, not the most unbiased source in the world.

Apparently, according to the Bush campaign, if you don't like state law, get a Federal judge involved.




 

Anyone2u

Member
Aug 12, 2000
32
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<< I thought there was one count on election day, then one recount (which still doesn't show complete), only 66 of 67 counties show. I think that there has been requests for manual recounts in a few counties. So, I think there have been two counts, plus just a start of a third count.
How do you get four ballot counts?
>>


Actually, I don't believe the initial election has been finalized as all of the absentee ballots have not been counted. Are we going to be getting into the definition of &quot;is&quot; is argument?

 

ride525

Golden Member
Oct 14, 1999
1,379
0
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Shux,

You and I agree....

one count on election day (which isn't even complete yet)...
one state-mandated recount (which isn't apparently complete yet)....
and a request for a partial manual count in four counties.....

Interesting thought I just had....if Bush only has 72 hours to request recounts, maybe he is REALLY worried now that he hasn't requested recounts...and that's why he wants to stop the four county recounts....



 

Kanly

Senior member
Oct 23, 1999
922
0
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&quot;Actually, I don't believe the initial election has been finalized as all of the absentee ballots have not been counted.&quot;

Exactly!

But try telling that to Bush who is already leaking names of his proposed Cabinet/Staff
picks.


 

DefRef

Diamond Member
Nov 9, 2000
4,041
1
81
The LEGAL recount was mandated by state law and it's been done and it shows that Gore still lost, albeit be a closer margin.

The Bush camp is suing to prevent the Democratic's vote fraud scheme. If anything, the Gore camp doesn't want the &quot;will of the people&quot; to be heard (i.e. They lost.) and they're having suits filed on their behalf to give temselves another chance at stealing it.

Face it Al, you lost in a close race. Concede and spend the next four years as a martyr and try again in '04. You can beat Hillary!, can't you?

What's wrong with the National Review? Sure, it's a conservative magazine, but they're upfront about it, unlike the mainstream media, which is overwhelmingly liberal but proclaims themselves &quot;objective&quot;. The New Republic is a Left's equivalent. Go there for some Left-wing hate speech against conservatives.
 

Michael

Elite member
Nov 19, 1999
5,435
234
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This is an interesting quote from CNN:

&quot;The statue is very clear that if a county's results are not to us by 5 p.m. Tuesday we shall ignore that county's vote, and the counties need to be very aware of that,&quot; Crawford told reporters. &quot;Candidates asking for recounts need to be aware of that.&quot;

If the Republicans fight each and every vote in the recount, they could delay it past the state deadline. If Palm Beach County is thrown out, Bush's lead will be huge.

The consequences, of course, of having that many votes thrown out will be severe and greatly escalate the problem.

I hope that both candidates are taking this into account.

Michael

ps - as there is an &quot;unofficial&quot; count for all counties, I think that there has been at least one complete recount by machine of all the counties in Florida with the unofficial result of Bush being ahead by about 330 votes before the overseas absentee votes are counted. I think the people arguing that this is still the first recount are hanging their hats on the technicality that the Palm Beach County results are not certified yet (which a court injunction has prevented from happening until Tuesday, why soemthing this important can't be ruled on by Monday or even over the weekend is beyond me ...)). I think at least one county did a hand count already to confirm the machine recount.
 

Russ

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
21,093
3
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<< And yes the &quot;official&quot; numbers do show Bush ahead, but the election isn't over And yes the &quot;official&quot; numbers do show Bush ahead, but the election isn't over >>



Shux,

It was over before the recount began. President-Elect Bush has won. That won't change if Bore demands a thousand more counts.



<< And...have I miscounted the number of recounts?
I thought there was one count on election day, then one recount
>>



ride525,

The recount required that each individual ballot be counted three times. The ballots have now been counted a total of four times each, and statistically as a percentage of total votes, the outcome has changed almost nil.

I've said it a hundred times, but since there seem to be quite a few people who just don't get it: Recounts DO NOT change outcomes in modern elections.

Your boy lost. Time to quit grasping at thin air.

Russ, NCNE
 

ride525

Golden Member
Oct 14, 1999
1,379
0
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<< Your boy lost. Time to quit grasping at thin air. >>



First he's not my boy....

Second, I just want to make sure that the ballots in Florida are all counted.....the totals changed pretty significantly with the recount....

 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
0
0
The Federal Judge who will hear the Republicans complaint is a Clinton appointee. :p

Boy, will we hear the whining after he dismisses their petition. Is that Russ winding his motor? (Those rubber bands take so d*mn long to wind up.)
 

JellyBaby

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
9,159
1
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chess9,

<< The Federal Judge who will hear the Republicans complaint is a Clinton appointee. >>

You forgot to end that sentence, &quot;...whos boss is due to stand down in 2 months.&quot;. Now how does it look? ;)

In any event it'll be interesting to see which way he goes.
 

ride525

Golden Member
Oct 14, 1999
1,379
0
0
Hey Russ....

Can you explain how the ballots are checked three times on a recount? Not a trick question, I just hadn't heard about that before...

Thanks.....
 

ride525

Golden Member
Oct 14, 1999
1,379
0
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Russ,

Tried sending you Private Message to see if you could explain my above post...but you seemed to have PM turned off.....too popular? :) ;)

Was the three checks on the recount one by the county checker, one by Republican, and one by Democrat?

How does that work?

Thanks....
 

fragarific

Golden Member
Sep 29, 2000
1,355
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I can't believe after all that crap Bush said about not filing court actions. Bush was the first to start a law suit!
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,270
103
106
fragarific, I can't believe you dug up a 20 day old tread to say day ;)

Anyway, as to your comment, Gore and his Gorons were the first in court, Bush then had to file his own suits in return to ensure fairness.
 

ToBeMe

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2000
5,711
0
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Two questions.......1) What happens if Gore loses another recount if it is granted? 2) What happens if Gore wins his first count? I don't think it's prudent to expect Bush to concede after losing only 1, I suspect he would then request another by his specifications.........Realisticly it can't/shouldn't happen....but who knows at this point, laws are basicly being tested everyday. Honestly, I expect a split USSC ruling and the FL Leg. to assign the electors.
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,270
103
106
ToBeMe, I expect the same, a split supreme court ruling, a handcount where a lot of Gore votes are manufactured, and finally the Florida legislature stepping in to produce the fair result......

If Gore wins the recount, the legislature will have to save the day. If Bush wins the recount, I suppose the senior leaders of the Democratic party will step in and force Gore and the Gorons to finally give in and not hurt the party down the line.