GOP Convention Surprise? Or More BS

[smashp]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: smashp

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: smashp

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: shinerburke
Hope this is true.....it's the one thing Steve Forbes brought to the game back when he ran. We need to move to a flat 15% tax on everyone except those making less than 20k a year.

sounds like a reasonable plan.

only if you include corporations😉

You dont need to tax corportations, if yuo tax them, those costs just get passed to the consumer.

then I guess they cant use any of my Citizan paid for Roads or legal Systems or Hell, Our Patent System....

Tax corporations Too Since they Benifit from US Government sometimes more than citizens

And who owns the corporations? The people.

Point taken...

 

[zephyrprime]

You dont need to tax corportations, if yuo tax them, those costs just get passed to the consumer.

You could say the same thing in reverse. Taxing consumers will just them to be more expensive for employees.

Money circulates in the economy. You can't tax any part of it without passing on costs to other parts.

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

This will NEVER happen...both parties spend like drunken sailors on the first day of shore leave. They depend far too much on the revenue the IRS takes in to kill it.

 

[Acanthus]

Getting rid of federal income tax for a flat sales tax wouldnt work.

How do you tax stock dividends and the like? Its hard for the IRS to catch now...

My idea is what about the millionaires that DONT spend their money... that goes completely untaxed and just builds up? All the money in the stock market? No tax?

 

[Kibbo]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
Getting rid of federal income tax for a flat sales tax wouldnt work.

How do you tax stock dividends and the like? Its hard for the IRS to catch now...

My idea is what about the millionaires that DONT spend their money... that goes completely untaxed and just builds up? All the money in the stock market? No tax?

Acanthus,

There is such a thing as a capital gains tax, which taxes the difference in price between when you buy a stock and when you sell it. Remember that the value in a stock is worthless until you trade it for a good or a service.

 

[Ldir]

Originally posted by: Dissipate
The day the IRS is eliminated is a day to celebrate. The day all government tax collection ends is a day that will probably mark the beginning of utopia.

You mean a utopia like Bangladesh?

 

[Ldir]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: smashp

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: smashp

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: shinerburke
Hope this is true.....it's the one thing Steve Forbes brought to the game back when he ran. We need to move to a flat 15% tax on everyone except those making less than 20k a year.

sounds like a reasonable plan.

only if you include corporations😉

You dont need to tax corportations, if yuo tax them, those costs just get passed to the consumer.

then I guess they cant use any of my Citizan paid for Roads or legal Systems or Hell, Our Patent System....

Tax corporations Too Since they Benifit from US Government sometimes more than citizens

And who owns the corporations? The people.

Not exactly. Stock holders own the corporations. Stock holders are disproportionately rich people.

 

[alchemize]

Not exactly. Stock holders own the corporations. Stock holders are disproportionately rich people.

Doesn't lying come easily to you?

Do a google, see how much retirement funds and pension funds comprise the stock market.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Ldir

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: smashp

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: smashp

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: shinerburke
Hope this is true.....it's the one thing Steve Forbes brought to the game back when he ran. We need to move to a flat 15% tax on everyone except those making less than 20k a year.

sounds like a reasonable plan.

only if you include corporations😉

You dont need to tax corportations, if yuo tax them, those costs just get passed to the consumer.

then I guess they cant use any of my Citizan paid for Roads or legal Systems or Hell, Our Patent System....

Tax corporations Too Since they Benifit from US Government sometimes more than citizens

And who owns the corporations? The people.

Not exactly. Stock holders own the corporations. Stock holders are disproportionately rich people.

I'd like you to define "disproportionately" and "rich", please, and provide statistics to back up your statement.

 

[Ferocious]

Typical politics.

Preach a desire to sway some voters knowing (and hoping) that it will never happen.

 

[imported_tss4]

Originally posted by: Orsorum

Originally posted by: Ldir

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: smashp

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: smashp

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: shinerburke
Hope this is true.....it's the one thing Steve Forbes brought to the game back when he ran. We need to move to a flat 15% tax on everyone except those making less than 20k a year.

sounds like a reasonable plan.

only if you include corporations😉

You dont need to tax corportations, if yuo tax them, those costs just get passed to the consumer.

then I guess they cant use any of my Citizan paid for Roads or legal Systems or Hell, Our Patent System....

Tax corporations Too Since they Benifit from US Government sometimes more than citizens

And who owns the corporations? The people.

Not exactly. Stock holders own the corporations. Stock holders are disproportionately rich people.

I'd like you to define "disproportionately" and "rich", please, and provide statistics to back up your statement.

He means the 1% of the population that pays 30% of the income taxes are the ones that own most of the stock in the U.S. (by most I mean over 50%) while the other 99% that pay 70% of the taxes own less than 49%.

This isn't something to get defensive about. Those that have more money than they need to live comfortably, use it to acquire more wealth. The stock market is a great way to do that.

But back to the topic... Has anyone seen any evidence that this flat tax would actually generate comparable revenue to the current system. Or are we assuming massive government spending cuts across the board to make this work? I'm pretty far left, but the idea of a flat tax that poor people are excempt from paying, seems worth talking about.

 

[XMan]

Originally posted by: tss4

Originally posted by: Orsorum

Originally posted by: Ldir

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: smashp

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: smashp

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: shinerburke
Hope this is true.....it's the one thing Steve Forbes brought to the game back when he ran. We need to move to a flat 15% tax on everyone except those making less than 20k a year.

sounds like a reasonable plan.

only if you include corporations😉

You dont need to tax corportations, if yuo tax them, those costs just get passed to the consumer.

then I guess they cant use any of my Citizan paid for Roads or legal Systems or Hell, Our Patent System....

Tax corporations Too Since they Benifit from US Government sometimes more than citizens

And who owns the corporations? The people.

Not exactly. Stock holders own the corporations. Stock holders are disproportionately rich people.

I'd like you to define "disproportionately" and "rich", please, and provide statistics to back up your statement.

He means the 1% of the population that pays 30% of the income taxes are the ones that own most of the stock in the U.S. (by most I mean over 50%) while the other 99% that pay 70% of the taxes own less than 49%.

This isn't something to get defensive about. Those that have more money than they need to live comfortably, use it to acquire more wealth. The stock market is a great way to do that.

But back to the topic... Has anyone seen any evidence that this flat tax would actually generate comparable revenue to the current system. Or are we assuming massive government spending cuts across the board to make this work? I'm pretty far left, but the idea of a flat tax that poor people are excempt from paying, seems worth talking about.

www.fairtax.org

Worst it looks to be revenue neutral, best case it might even improve government revenues.

 

[tallest1]

Originally posted by: smashp

Originally posted by: Todd33
This is like the mars crap. Aim for something that will never pass just to make it look like you were trying. Smoke screen.

MARS B!TCHES

Exactly! Why doesn't Bush propose Flying Cars, world peace, broadband for everyone (oh wait, hes already promised that), a cure for cancer, and free college education by 2009 while hes at it? Sure it won't happen, but hey, he tried right? :thumbsdown:

 

[imported_tss4]

Originally posted by: X-Man

Originally posted by: tss4

Originally posted by: Orsorum

Originally posted by: Ldir

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: smashp

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: smashp

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: shinerburke
Hope this is true.....it's the one thing Steve Forbes brought to the game back when he ran. We need to move to a flat 15% tax on everyone except those making less than 20k a year.

sounds like a reasonable plan.

only if you include corporations😉

You dont need to tax corportations, if yuo tax them, those costs just get passed to the consumer.

then I guess they cant use any of my Citizan paid for Roads or legal Systems or Hell, Our Patent System....

Tax corporations Too Since they Benifit from US Government sometimes more than citizens

And who owns the corporations? The people.

Not exactly. Stock holders own the corporations. Stock holders are disproportionately rich people.

I'd like you to define "disproportionately" and "rich", please, and provide statistics to back up your statement.

He means the 1% of the population that pays 30% of the income taxes are the ones that own most of the stock in the U.S. (by most I mean over 50%) while the other 99% that pay 70% of the taxes own less than 49%.

This isn't something to get defensive about. Those that have more money than they need to live comfortably, use it to acquire more wealth. The stock market is a great way to do that.

But back to the topic... Has anyone seen any evidence that this flat tax would actually generate comparable revenue to the current system. Or are we assuming massive government spending cuts across the board to make this work? I'm pretty far left, but the idea of a flat tax that poor people are excempt from paying, seems worth talking about.

www.fairtax.org

Worst it looks to be revenue neutral, best case it might even improve government revenues.

Where did you see that it would be neutral or that it might actually make more money? The only thing I found was a graph showing that pretty much everyone except those around 35000 would have lower taxes?

 

[Thump553]

In politics, this is known as a trial balloon. Leaking it to such a frequently wrong source as Drudge gives the GOP deniability. If this generates enough interest, then maybe they will pursue it-otherwise no.

Dissolving the IRS is a great catch phrase but total BS. A properly implemented VAT tax could be an improvement. However, given this Bush's track record the chances of him implementing a fair VAT are nill-it would be yet another corporate bailout.

 

[halik]

Wow,
wouldn't that completly rape the tax revenue?? I mean theres a huge deficit as is, how are they planning on making a budget with no income tax?

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: halik
Wow,
wouldn't that completly rape the tax revenue?? I mean theres a huge deficit as is, how are they planning on making a budget with no income tax?

It's called a 100% sales tax, duh. 😛

 

[Acanthus]

I guess you guys didnt see exactly what i was saying. This type of tax assumes that all of the money in our economy is moving, and it isnt. This allows the wealthy to go completely untaxed until they spend the money.

Not to mention we will still have state and county taxes, and social security, still come out of our checks.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: shinerburke
Hope this is true.....it's the one thing Steve Forbes brought to the game back when he ran. We need to move to a flat 15% tax on everyone except those making less than 20k a year.

No deductions no exclusions? Should'nt a guy drilling a well then finds it's dry not have to pay taxes on his loses?

Also, sounds like a tax on consumption which will drive the US economy to a stand still (maybe depression) much like Bush 1's luxury tax did to luxury item manufactures like boat builders.

 

[DanceMan]

Originally posted by: Zebo

No deductions no exclusions? Should'nt a guy drilling a well then finds it's dry not have to pay taxes on his loses?

Well, the guy could do like Dubya did with Arbusto. Have his investors and buddies bail him out! 😀

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: shinerburke
Hope this is true.....it's the one thing Steve Forbes brought to the game back when he ran. We need to move to a flat 15% tax on everyone except those making less than 20k a year.

No deductions no exclusions? Should'nt a guy drilling a well then finds it's dry not have to pay taxes on his loses?

Also, sounds like a tax on consumption which will drive the US economy to a stand still (maybe depression) much like Bush 1's luxury tax did to luxury item manufactures like boat builders.

I would think a tax on labor(income) really stops consumption as well.

 

[Pliablemoose]

There's another reason Congress wants rid of the IRS, quite honestly, they're afraid of an audit as the rest of the population.

Have you-all ever noticed congress doesn't jack with the IRS? They're freaking scared.

If they're even discussing it, they'll do it, there's no going back for them😀

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: shinerburke
Hope this is true.....it's the one thing Steve Forbes brought to the game back when he ran. We need to move to a flat 15% tax on everyone except those making less than 20k a year.

No deductions no exclusions? Should'nt a guy drilling a well then finds it's dry not have to pay taxes on his loses?

Also, sounds like a tax on consumption which will drive the US economy to a stand still (maybe depression) much like Bush 1's luxury tax did to luxury item manufactures like boat builders.

I would think a tax on labor(income) really stops consumption as well.

Intesting point but Consumption tax would be a choice one could make unlike income tax. Most simply would'nt opt to pay more taxes just to have a $10,000 wristwatch which would devistate the economy I believe. Also the current tax system is geared twards moving the economy in a positive manner, unlike a consumption tax, by spending as much as humanly possible for tax breaks on earned income. EX?

Also I gurantee you Id live in a shack and drive a 40 year old car before paying VAT taxes on a mansion and VAT on a new F-350. Now I get a write off all the intrest paid on a nice house ( the whole payment, since I only do intrest loans) which benefits the economy all around... from the materials maufacturer to supplier to construction worker. My vechile is also 100% write-off offsetting any tax burden I may have.

Frankly I'm surprised anyone making less than 100K is feeling income taxes at all with all the exclusions and deductions we are afforded in the code. (other than SS/medicare, sales and property taxes of course)

 

[Dissipate]

I just got this email from fairtax.org:

Dear Dissipate,

"Good for you." When you and I look in the mirror, that's what we should tell ourselves. Should we be proud of the extraordinary grassroots accomplishments of our efforts to replace the income tax so far? Of course, we should. We should be thankful of the sacrifices of the thousands of members, volunteers, and monetary contributors which have brought us to this place. And we are! But, if we're serious about passing the FairTax (www.fairtax.org) we've got to realize that the true test of our commitment is ahead of us, not behind us.

In fact, today it's staring us right in the face. Last nights headlines on the Drudge Report were: "A centerpiece of the Bush/GOP agenda for a second Bush term is getting rid of the IRS". Yes! That's right. Click here to read the story: http://www.drudgereport.com/rnc.htm. This story was followed by another at GOPUSA http://www.gopusa.com/news/2004/august/0802_hastert_irs.shtml and even more stories this morning on national T.V. and from talk show hosts around the country, including Rush Limbaugh.

Your help is needed today on two fast and critical action items. Please e-mail the President at www.georgewbush.com today and cc us (or send us a copy) at info@fairtax.org. Ask your friends to do the same by forwarding this e-mail to them.

We want 5,000 friendly emails into the President's campaign in the next week to encourage him to pursue what Drudge and others are now referring to. Specifically, to open the debate on passage of the FairTax. We will notify you as soon as we have 5,000 in. Please be sure and forward your email to us at info@fairtax.org

Please also send an e-mail to Speaker Hastert at www.house.gov/hastert/. Note: a message will pop up that says he will not able to respond to you if you are out of the district. However, his office will receive your comments.

Please express your appreciation of his efforts to eliminate the IRS and please do mention the FairTax. We want 1,000 emails into his office in the next week to thank him. Please cc us (or send us a copy) at info@fairtax.org

Many of you have worked long and hard on the campaign to eliminate the IRS - now is the time to make it happen!!


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Linky on second article:

GOPUSA

I'll believe it when I see it. Sounds like a ploy to get Bush back in the Whitehouse.

 

[ToBeMe]

Both sides have been toying with this since the Reagan years.....................

Quite a quandry is actually very possible too................

If the Reps. take it and run with it during this election and get it passed................their in.................if the Democrats block it somehow......their the "Bad Guys" whom blocked the tax overhaul bill...................as I've said all along, I really don't like either one but if forced, I think Kerry would be better to get things straightened out economy wise and the markets always do better under dem. control.....................but for Iraq...........I think Bush needs to see that through..............Foreign policy wise.....................IMHO, it's a toss up..........Bush sucks and Kerry's unproven...................