GOP blinks on debt limit.

[theeedude]

And by "blinks" I mean "shuts eyes and buries head."

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-mcconnell-debt-plan-20110712,0,892271.story?track=rss

McConnell unveiled a complicated legislative strategy that would allow Congress to vote against raising the debt limit, let President Obama veto the measure, and then hold a vote to override the veto, which requires a two-thirds majority to pass.

GOP has abandoned any pretense of being a responsible political party. They want to be able to stage mock votes against ceiling increase without having to worry about getting what they vote for and taking any responsibility for that vote. Absolutely disgusting.:thumbsdown:

 

[woolfe9999]

I'm so tired of this garbage it makes me almost physically ill to think about it anymore. But I'll make one more comment. This is basically the GOP abolishing the debt ceiling by making it nearly 100% discretionary to the POTUS. They know that not lifting the debt ceiling will sink us, but they also know that lifting it is politically unpopular. So they want to pass a piece of legislation to give Obama unlimited authority to do what they know must be done, but which will allow them to blame Obama for doing it. It also allows them to sidestep a deficit reduction bill and put it off until after the 2012 elections which is exactly what they want. They want to say, look, Obama lifted the debt ceiling and failed to cut government spending!

The economic implications of all this are, of course, irrelevant, because the economy is irrelevant except for its political implications.

The dems aren't much better than this, if at all.

I'm very close to expatting myself and my family from this whole fucking mess.

 

[Theb]

Sure it looks complicated, but it's probably a lot simpler than coming up with a real solution.

 

[theeedude]

I'm so tired of this garbage it makes me almost physically ill to think about it anymore. But I'll make one more comment. This is basically the GOP abolishing the debt ceiling by making it nearly 100% discretionary to the POTUS. They know that not lifting the debt ceiling will sink us, but they also know that lifting it is politically unpopular. So they want to pass a piece of legislation to give Obama unlimited authority to do what they know must be done, but which will allow them to blame Obama for doing it. It also allows them to sidestep a deficit reduction bill and put it off until after the 2012 elections which is exactly what they want. They want to say, look, Obama lifted the debt ceiling and failed to cut government spending!

The economic implications of all this are, of course, irrelevant, because the economy is irrelevant except for its political implications.

The dems aren't much better than this, if at all.

I'm very close to expatting myself and my family from this whole fucking mess.

The Dems were open to HUGE concessions to actually deal with the deficit in a responsible way. GOP could not even agree to close ANY market distorting tax loopholes. For them, this is all for show. They have created this enormous uncertainty for businesses and investors, probably hurting the economy in the process, for nothing more than scoring PR points with the tea party. The GOP is so ideologically bound that they cannot govern, period. All they can do is say, Obama, you deal with the problems, we are just going to keep bashing you.

 

[woolfe9999]

The Dems were open to HUGE concessions to actually deal with the deficit in a responsible way. GOP could not even agree to close ANY market distorting tax loopholes. For them, this is all for show. They have created this enormous uncertainty for businesses and investors, probably hurting the economy in the process, for nothing more than scoring PR points with the tea party. The GOP is so ideologically bound that they cannot govern, period. All they can do is say, Obama, you deal with the problems, we are just going to keep bashing you.

On the substance of deficit reduction, I agree with the dem's compromize approach and disagree with the GOP's rigidly ideological approach. Both, however, are playing games in the process. SS payments, for example, aren't really all that likely to stop if we fail to lift the debt ceiling and the Obama administration knows it.

The politics, however, are increasingly irrelevant, because the GOP, or rather, its underlying ideology and the interests it serves, has already won. A majority of Americans think taxes and government are the enemy. It's probably best to just give them what they want and anyone sane should basically head for greener pastures.

 

[Doppel]

And by "blinks" I mean "shuts eyes and buries head."

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-mcconnell-debt-plan-20110712,0,892271.story?track=rss



GOP has abandoned any pretense of being a responsible political party. They want to be able to stage mock votes against ceiling increase without having to worry about getting what they vote for and taking any responsibility for that vote. Absolutely disgusting.:thumbsdown:

Total lulz. It's disgusting but it's also quite clever and elegant in its disgustingness.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Obama should call their bluff and sign it.

"It's what the Republican party wants for America, remember grandmas and grandpas it was the Republicans that took away your Social Security check."

Yes Republican, this is ever so much more responsible than coming up with a compromise to cut spending and close a few corporate welfare loopholes to raise revenue. :rolleyes;

 

[umbrella39]

Same shit, same GOP, different day.

They will defend their rich comrades to the death it would seem.

Come on rich GOP butt buddies, create those jobs you keep telling us you will for 10 years now.

 

[theeedude]

On the substance of deficit reduction, I agree with the dem's compromize approach and disagree with the GOP's rigidly ideological approach. Both, however, are playing games in the process. SS payments, for example, aren't really all that likely to stop if we fail to lift the debt ceiling and the Obama administration knows it.

The politics, however, are increasingly irrelevant, because the GOP, or rather, its underlying ideology and the interests it serves, has already won. A majority of Americans think taxes and government are the enemy. It's probably best to just give them what they want and anyone sane should basically head for greener pastures.

Aren't really likely to stop is not the same as guaranteed not to stop. So Obama was straightforward on this. Bottom line is this will be uncharted territory, so there are NO guarantees.

 

[IronWing]

And by "blinks" I mean "shuts eyes and buries head."

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-mcconnell-debt-plan-20110712,0,892271.story?track=rss



GOP has abandoned any pretense of being a responsible political party. They want to be able to stage mock votes against ceiling increase without having to worry about getting what they vote for and taking any responsibility for that vote. Absolutely disgusting.:thumbsdown:

The debt limit debate has been BS from the beginning. Reality is that the Republicans already voted for the spending and tax breaks that necessitated increasing the debt limit. Now they are just being pouty little snots about the consequences of their own actions. If they were serious about stopping government borrowing they would have passed a balanced budget. They didn't. Note that the government can continue to spend appropriated funds regardless of what happens with the debt limit. Sucks to be our creditors.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Total lulz. It's disgusting but it's also quite clever and elegant in its disgustingness.

That describes the modern Republican party perfectly!

 

[theeedude]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/58843.html

Across the Capitol, a closed-door caucus of House Republicans broke up with the leadership conceding that it’s frankly at a loss about getting the votes before Treasury’s Aug. 2 deadline.

“Nothing can get through the House right now,” Cantor said after the White House meeting. “Nothing.”

Complete collapse and paralysis of GOP's ability to get anything done. Never mind passing something that is has a chance of being signed, they can't even get anything through a House their party fully controls.

 

[Aluvus]

They know that not lifting the debt ceiling will sink us, but they also know that lifting it is politically unpopular.

The tragedy is that it wasn't that politically unpopular until they made it so; the debt ceiling has been increased plenty of times before, generally with a little squawking but nothing too crazy. But now, in their efforts to play to the Tea Partiers in their base, they've painted themselves into a corner. The whole thing is pretty pathetic.

 

[a777pilot]

I'm at the point where I believe it is time to shut the federal government down. How could we be worse off?

 

[blackangst1]

Did you guys read the article? Its a way to get the ceiling raised without imposing spending cuts...

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I'm very close to expatting myself and my family from this whole fucking mess.

Some parts of coastal Spain look nice. I've considered it, but let's say I'd be vetoed by "The Boss"

 

[Lithium381]

It has to be done. It's similar to a parent always conceding to a crying child that isn't getting what it wants..... now the child is throwing a tantrum and the parent is standing firm. It's a hard decision to make and it will be hard in the beginning but the child has to realize that its current path is great in the short term but sucks in the long term...

it's not popular with ANYONE right now because it cuts what we're used to... what we think we are somehow ENTITLED to.... but in the long term it is better for the US....
I'm happy the Reps are finally stepping up and doing what serves the country best, not just what helps their reelection chances.

 

[JSt0rm]

It has to be done. It's similar to a parent always conceding to a crying child that isn't getting what it wants..... now the child is throwing a tantrum and the parent is standing firm. It's a hard decision to make and it will be hard in the beginning but the child has to realize that its current path is great in the short term but sucks in the long term...

it's not popular with ANYONE right now because it cuts what we're used to... what we think we are somehow ENTITLED to.... but in the long term it is better for the US....
I'm happy the Reps are finally stepping up and doing what serves the country best, not just what helps their reelection chances.

your analogy doesn't hold because the parent has no idea what is about to happen. You are going to destroy the economy.

 

[a777pilot]

Did you guys read the article? Its a way to get the ceiling raised without imposing spending cuts...

That is what is pissing me off.

They, Republicans and Democrats, are all the same.

 

[fskimospy]

I'm at the point where I believe it is time to shut the federal government down. How could we be worse off?

That's because you're either really ignorant or really dumb. We would all be a lot worse off if we defaulted on the debt. I'm not aware of a single credible economist who thinks otherwise.

Where do you get these insane ideas? Does it just feel good in your gut so you think it's true?

 

[UberNeuman]

Did you guys read the article? Its a way to get the ceiling raised without imposing spending cuts...

and the GOP not taking credit for their poor leadership and this plainly obvious scheme....

\wanna guess how many times Mitch the Bitch voted to increase the debt limit over the years?


McConnel's debit limit vote record:

Jan 28, 2010 (12.4T to 14.3T, 15.3% increase) - No
Dec 24, 2009 (12.1 to 12.4T, 2.5% increase) - No
Feb 10, 2009 (11.3 to 12.1T, 7.1% increase) - No
Oct 01, 2008 (10.6 to 11.3T, 6.6% increase) - Yes
Apr 10, 2008 (9.8 to 10.6T, 8.2% increase) - Yes
Sep 27, 2007 (9.0 to 9.8T, 8.8% increase) - Yes
Mar 16, 2006 (8.2 to 9.0T, 9.8% increase) - Yes
Nov 17, 2004 (7.4 to 8.2T, 10.8% increase) - Yes
May 23, 2003 (6.4 to 7.4T, 15.6% increase) - Yes
Jun 11, 2002 (6.0 to 6.4T, 6.7% increase) - Yes
Jul 31, 1997 (5.5 to 6.0T, 9.1% increase) - Yes
Mar 28, 1996 (4.9 to 5.5T, 12.2% increase) - ?? (Unam. consent)
Aug 06, 1993 (4.1 to 4.9T, 19.5% increase) - No
Oct 27, 1990 (3.1 to 4.1T, 32.3% increase) - No
Nov 07, 1989 (2.8 to 3.1T, 10.7% increase) - ?? (Voice Vote)

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Seriously, this was bound to happen. Republicans couldn't find their way out of a paper bag, but by heavens they're going to get in one!

 

[Lithium381]

your analogy doesn't hold because the parent has no idea what is about to happen. You are going to destroy the economy.

Bobo the post turtle is going to destroy it.
Once the debt limit hits, it is his obligation to honor the debt we have incurred and pay interest on it, after that he can do what he pleases with the leftover income. He's going to try and make it hurt for a lot of people by cutting SS and Medicare/aid first, then try and pin THAT on the Republicans. Nope. That's all on him. Think about it, in the best interest of the people of the United States, all of whom he represents, why would that be best for them to have those benefits cut? Or would that be best for the Dems because then it's somehow the Repubs fault? It's a game they're playing.

Anyway, the repubs are just as at fault as the Dems for the whole mess, i just think they're picking the right play.

 

[IronWing]

Bobo the post turtle is going to destroy it.
Once the debt limit hits, it is his obligation to honor the debt we have incurred and pay interest on it, after that he can do what he pleases with the leftover income. He's going to try and make it hurt for a lot of people by cutting SS and Medicare/aid first, then try and pin THAT on the Republicans. Nope. That's all on him. Think about it, in the best interest of the people of the United States, all of whom he represents, why would that be best for them to have those benefits cut? Or would that be best for the Dems because then it's somehow the Repubs fault? It's a game they're playing.

Anyway, the repubs are just as at fault as the Dems for the whole mess, i just think they're picking the right play.

Bobo?

Anyway, Presidents don't get to pick and choose which appropriated funds to spend and which not to spend. Appropriations are law just like other laws and the President has to spend according to the law passed. Court cases from the Reagan era made this very clear. Failing to raise the debt limit will not cut spending, it will merely screw our creditors (mainly us) and destroy the global economy. Republicans are simply being dishonest (as usual).

 

[Lithium381]

Bobo?

Anyway, Presidents don't get to pick and choose which appropriated funds to spend and which not to spend. Appropriations are law just like other laws and the President has to spend according to the law passed. Court cases from the Reagan era made this very clear. Failing to raise the debt limit will not cut spending, it will merely screw our creditors (mainly us) and destroy the global economy. Republicans are simply being dishonest (as usual).

what will then?

lol, the republicans are less honest than the dems? so a kettle is more black than the pot?