GOP alienating Latino voters

[BoberFett]

Green cards are too easy to forge and the GOP strenuously opposes national identity papers. Meanwhile farmers in Alabama and Arizona are going broke because they can't find enough workers.

But I agree, the solution to illegal immigration is to prevent Americans from hiring them.

AL and AZ have 100% employment?

Yeah, I suppose it does get hard to hire workers for less than minimum wage when the people they could hire would rather sit at home and collect a free check.

 

[Mursilis]

That's fine, but are you suggesting that employers of illegals are not part of the problem?

Why is it so goddamn difficult for that to be a part of the discussion in conservative circles? Yes, we need to secure the border... but we also need to punish those who knowingly employ and house illegals.

Of course, as a practical matter, proving the "knowingly" part is tough. As Lemon Law noted, forging green cards doesn't appear to be that difficult, so while an employer may strongly suspect they're employing illegals, proving they knew it is tough. Most prosecuters are already overworked, and don't want the extra hassle. It's simply easier to go after the illegals instead. But of course I'd still like to see more employers prosecuted and fined.

 

[Mursilis]

AL and AZ have 100% employment?

Yeah, I suppose it does get hard to hire workers for less than minimum wage when the people they could hire would rather sit at home and collect a free check.

But the article clearly said Americans won't do these jobs! Besides, this stuff sounds like real work, which is for suckers. Keep those checks coming!

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

"Free access" is off point to the OP's article as that was not a given opinion. Those who think the GOP is off the reservation about this have a variety of opinions on the specifics of immigration. For example, my own position is that I want to see the border secured. Then and only then it will be constructive to talk about a path to citizenship for those already here. I don't think we can continue to have a porous border, but at the same time I don't have ill will toward those who cross it to have a better life. I don't see why those two positions are incompatible.

I largely agree with the OP's article. The GOP IS alienating latino voters by implying that these immigrants are a bunch of sponging freeloaders. Illegal immigration is a problem, but vilifying the immigrants is not the solution. Vilifying the immigrants is just red meat for the GOP base.

The problem that many people have is they don't care about the Republicans or Democrats. You are seeing a government which will not secure the border. They will not allow effective action taken against illegals (and I don't mean executions or other nonsense so other posters have been warned off). The federal government has gone to lengths to prevent anything which would discourage more illegals from crossing the borders. They'll send some back and the rest? You can't even check to see if they are legal before renting IIRC. If the Reps vilify people who shouldn't be here, why aren't the Dems being vilified for encouraging illegal entry by their policies?

Frankly I'm fed up with the lot, but if the Reps are being judged for what is said they say I'm a whole lot more upset with those who want this mess, if not in words, but in deed.

 

[Svnla]

LEGALS = si.

ILLEGLAS = no.

Comprende?

Gracias.

 

[woolfe9999]

The problem that many people have is they don't care about the Republicans or Democrats. You are seeing a government which will not secure the border. They will not allow effective action taken against illegals (and I don't mean executions or other nonsense so other posters have been warned off). The federal government has gone to lengths to prevent anything which would discourage more illegals from crossing the borders. They'll send some back and the rest? You can't even check to see if they are legal before renting IIRC. If the Reps vilify people who shouldn't be here, why aren't the Dems being vilified for encouraging illegal entry by their policies?

Frankly I'm fed up with the lot, but if the Reps are being judged for what is said they say I'm a whole lot more upset with those who want this mess, if not in words, but in deed.

Actually border security has been strengthened both in terms of personnel and physical barriers, and we're spending more money on it than we ever have. And IIRC illegal immigration has been down for the past several years. Some attribute this solely to the depressed economy. I doubt that is the only reason.

The problem with border security is that it has to reach a critical mass to be truly effective, and it's a long as hell border we're talking about.

The reason we haven't committed what we need to commit is that we have a deadlock on the issue. The two parties cannot agree to both secure the border and provide amnesty. Honestly I don't see why the dems should accede to GOP demands to secure the border without a concomitant agreement to provide a path to citizenship once certain benchmarks are reached in terms of security. It's a fools bargain to just give the GOP what they want and hope they'll support amnesty later.

The position of moderate dems (not the open border position of the far left) for amnesty in conjunction with border security is more than reasonable. It isn't remotely practical to deport all these people. It would require a massive police state witch hunt and ultimately achieve deportation of only a fraction. And many of these people put down roots here long ago and their kids had no say in how they got here.

Let's have an omnibus bill that provides both security and amnesty, with the latter being predicated on the success of the former. Why not? Any unilateral concession to security will not result in any future GOP support for amnesty, no matter how successful the security measures. We know this is the case because much of the GOP base simply does not like these people. Nativism is a very long and not very proud tradition in America. We have detested immigrants here, both of the legal and illegal type, since the founding of this republic. Catholics, Irish, Germans, Chinese, Italians, you name it. It beggars belief to assert that nativism is suddenly a non-factor in American immigration politics just because the language of it has become more PC in recent years.

- wolf

 

[Ausm]

al and az have 100% employment?

Yeah, i suppose it does get hard to hire workers for less than minimum wage when the people they could hire would rather sit at home and collect a free check.

oh the irony😀

 

[BoberFett]

oh the irony😀

No irony at all, you clearly don't understand the meaning of the word.

I loved my two year paid vacation, courtesy of the taxpayer.

Why the hell would I go pick vegetables or mow lawns?

 

[Ausm]

No irony at all, you clearly don't understand the meaning of the word.

I loved my two year paid vacation, courtesy of the taxpayer.

Why the hell would I go pick vegetables or mow lawns?

Because it would make you a useful contributor to society instead of a worthless fucking leach?

 

[Mursilis]

Let's have an omnibus bill that provides both security and amnesty, with the latter being predicated on the success of the former. Why not?

Why? Why do these things have to be linked? There shouldn't even have to be a bill to enhance border security - it's already the federal gov't's job to do that. And who cares if the GOP won't support amnesty? Obama passed health care reform against the GOP's wishes. Why didn't the Dems do anything on this issue when they ran the show in Congress? Of course the Dems have no real interest in border security anyway - they see Latinos as future Dem voters, and it lets them constantly trot out the race card against the GOP.

Any unilateral concession to security will not result in any future GOP support for amnesty, no matter how successful the security measures. We know this is the case because much of the GOP base simply does not like these people.

And here we go with the race card. But at least you renamed it - "Nativism!"

Nativism is a very long and not very proud tradition in America. We have detested immigrants here, both of the legal and illegal type, since the founding of this republic. Catholics, Irish, Germans, Chinese, Italians, you name it. It beggars belief to assert that nativism is a non-factor in American immigration politics just because the language of it has become more PC in recent years.

Which is why the son of a Kenyan will never be president. 🙄 For a country with such a nativism problem, immigrants sure do keep coming!

 

[Mursilis]

Because it would make you a useful contributor to society instead of a worthless fucking leach?

I thought that was "victim of an oppressive capitalist system" to you.

 

[rudder]

Because it would make you a useful contributor to society instead of a worthless fucking leach?

Are you saying his unemployment checks are not stimulating the economy?

Anyway I imagine Boberfett lives in a single family dwelling with outsharing it with 15 other people, has valid car insurance, pays for medical insurance, pays for his kids school lunches, etc. Hard to complete on slave wages when you have expense many illegal immigrants do not have.

 

[fskimospy]

Why? Why do these things have to be linked? There shouldn't even have to be a bill to enhance border security - it's already the federal gov't's job to do that. And who cares if the GOP won't support amnesty? Obama passed health care reform against the GOP's wishes. Why didn't the Dems do anything on this issue when they ran the show in Congress? Of course the Dems have no real interest in border security anyway - they see Latinos as future Dem voters, and it lets them constantly trot out the race card against the GOP.

It doesn't have to be in an omnibus bill, that's just the smart way to do it so everyone gets something they want. If you want to go all one way or the other, the most likely outcome is nothing. Would you prefer nothing?

Who cares if it's the fed's job to provide border security? That's such a nebulous concept as to be basically meaningless, a bill would specify exactly HOW the US conducts border security, presumably making it more towards conservative likings.

And here we go with the race card. But at least you renamed it - "Nativism!"

Which is why the son of a Kenyan will never be president. 🙄 For a country with such a nativism problem, immigrants sure do keep coming!

Are you unaware of the US's long history of nativism? Are you saying it stopped? If so, when?

 

[fskimospy]

Because it would make you a useful contributor to society instead of a worthless fucking leach?

My favorite part is that he apparently believes that taking home around $1,500 a month (at most after taxes, and likely less depending on what state he lives in) is some kind of awesome paid vacation. If he did that for two years he was either seriously dipping in to his savings, which is foolish, or living on somewhere not far above a minimum wage salary.

Really, the joke was on him.

 

[woolfe9999]

Why? Why do these things have to be linked? There shouldn't even have to be a bill to enhance border security - it's already the federal gov't's job to do that. And who cares if the GOP won't support amnesty? Obama passed health care reform against the GOP's wishes. Why didn't the Dems do anything on this issue when they ran the show in Congress? Of course the Dems have no real interest in border security anyway - they see Latinos as future Dem voters, and it lets them constantly trot out the race card against the GOP.

The two absolutely should be linked. Amnesty is more than a reasonable demand. It's actually inevitable. We aren't going to be able to deport all those people. They should be in the system, paying taxes, getting paid a reasonable wage so that they aren't undercutting local workers by being paid under the table. Furthermore, those who complain about a lack of assimilation should be seeing the obvious here. Legal Mexican immigrants are much better assimilated because they had to go through naturalization, but more importantly, because they didn't feel the need to segregate themselves for fear of being turned in and deported.

As far as the dems true motives being political, the GOP has the mirror opposite motive here. Is either motive really relevant though? What matters is what is best for the country. And that is stopping the flow of illegal immigration and getting the existing ones into the system. Screw the motives.

And here we go with the race card. But at least you renamed it - "Nativism!"

And here we go with the straw man of "race card." Nativism is the correct term and is not the same thing. I don't think many people have a problem with assimilated Mexican immigrants. It's the un-assimilated ones who bother them - because they don't act or talk like we do. If you can't see the distinction here, that is your problem.

Which is why the son of a Kenyan will never be president. 🙄 For a country with such a nativism problem, immigrants sure do keep coming!

Yeah, you mean the Kenyan secret Muslim who wasn't born in the United States? Let's not forget that Obama was elected over the objection of those people. The people I'm talking about are clearly not the ones who voted for Obama, are they?

- wolf

 

[Ausm]

I thought that was "victim of an oppressive capitalist system" to you.

I don't have a problem helping people who legitimately cannot work and/or find work.

 

[airdata]

are they illegal alienating?

 

[Ausm]

Are you saying his unemployment checks are not stimulating the economy?

Anyway I imagine Boberfett lives in a single family dwelling with outsharing it with 15 other people, has valid car insurance, pays for medical insurance, pays for his kids school lunches, etc. Hard to complete on slave wages when you have expense many illegal immigrants do not have.

Never claimed that...but I am repulsed by people who can work but are to fucking lazy to, unfortunately when Gubermint tries to help people who legitimately cannot find work or are not capable of working there are always pricks out there who will take advantage of the system.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Never claimed that...but I am repulsed by people who can work but are to fucking lazy to, unfortunately when Gubermint tries to help people who legitimately cannot find work or are not capable of working there are always pricks out there who will take advantage of the system.

Wow, you sound like a conservative.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

As far as the dems true motives being political, the GOP has the mirror opposite motive here. Is either motive really relevant though? What matters is what is best for the country. And that is stopping the flow of illegal immigration and getting the existing ones into the system. Screw the motives.

Motives matter because they are what achieve the final results. We went through this once if you recall. We had an amnesty in the past. Were the borders secured? No. So we give amnesty (or whatever). What guarantee do we have the the results will be any different? None at all.

Stepping away from one side or the other and looking at the whole coin this becomes not about anything other than a game of "who blinks first" with neither side trusting the other and sadly that last part makes sense. We aren't going to get a satisfactory resolution to any of this because it is not politically possible as things stand.

BTW, this is nothing. If UHC ever goes before Congress, immigration will look as if it was handled by anal retentives. Oh yes, it's hypothetically possible that government can handle immigration and other issues, but it is not run by representatives but parties and I think you'll have a hard time finding that is not a general rule.

 

[Ausm]

Wow, you sound like a conservative.

Maybe that's what a true conservative also believes but I don't think the values of today's G.O.P represent what true Conservatives believe. My problem with the G.O.P(the way I see it) is their desire to eliminate all safety nets in Society but what I would like to see is the safety nets we have become more efficient.

 

[ccbadd]

The GOP would never get behind this because they are addicted to cheap labor and making it cheaper all the time.

Who tried put an end to funding for e-verify??? The GOP isn't the only ones who want cheap labor. I wish at least some of you fundie-lefties could open yours eyes to the truth, both parties are the same, they just tell different lies.

 

[fskimospy]

Maybe that's what a true conservative also believes but I don't think the values of today's G.O.P represent what a true Conservatives believe. My problem with the G.O.P(the way I see it) is their desire to eliminate all safety nets in Society but what I would like to see is the safety nets we have become more efficient.

No, a true conservative wouldn't believe in those programs at all. It's one of those silly straw men where liberals can't be outraged by individuals misusing government programs because they love it so much or something.

Liberals such as myself detest misuse of government funds as much as anyone else, and the possibility of such misuse is something that always needs to be taken into account when you evaluate a program.

 

[xBiffx]

That's the mother of all cop-outs. If they're really serious about fighting the illegal immigration problem they should advocate and propose things that address both the supply and demand parts of the problem. Instead, they pick the supply side... simply because it's more politically beneficial to do so.

Not a cop-out. I don't claim to know what their motivations are either. I simple gave one possible explanation for the lack of movement on the right on this issue. You and others have said, without a doubt, the right is addicted to cheap labor and this is why they won't seriously address the issue. I am making to claims, just simply offering a possible explanation as to why this is. You make the claim, you support it. Not a cop-out when your side chooses to throw out claims that have no direct support, they just happen to fit the description of behavior from the right. Well, so does my explanation then.

Unless you have evidence of a conservative law maker specifically saying that they don't address the issue of illegal immigration because of their addiction to cheap labor you have nothing but conjecture. Put up or shut up. Calling my explanation a cop-out is laughable since there has been no evidence in the first place to prove what you are saying is true.

 

[Ausm]

No, a true conservative wouldn't believe in those programs at all. It's one of those silly straw men where liberals can't be outraged by individuals misusing government programs because they love it so much or something.

Liberals such as myself detest misuse of government funds as much as anyone else, and the possibility of such misuse is something that always needs to be taken into account when you evaluate a program.

You and I are on the same page!