Discussion Google Tensor SoC thread

[Frankil]

https://www.androidauthority.com/exclusive-google-tensor-g6-g5-tsmc-3493014

It looks like the Media finally found the slides posted on Twitter. Unfortunately, it seems that they plan to release the information piecemeal.

Hey @Hesperax,

Could you please share me that Tweet or Slides, I'm very curious to know about upcoming Tensor chips, whether Google is going / or have plans to put Axion arch. in future phones, and other stuff such as the slide comparing Geekbench scores... The media is going to redact most things and keep recycling same information for months.

Thanks.

 

[Doug S]

Apple GPU
mRDNA
Mali/Immortalis
Imagination
Adreno

So many different mobile GPUs.

This must be a nightmare for game devs.

That's certainly going to be among the reasons why mobile games tend to be released on iPhone first. Only one GPU target to test against there.

 

[FlameTail]

Google Tensor G5 makes appearance in Geekbench 6.

1 @ 3.4 GHz
5 @ 2.86 GHz
2 @ 2.44 GHz

Imagination GPU confirmed.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1852543833592254902

 

[soresu]

Imagination GPU confirmed.

PowerVR is still their branding.

 

[soresu]

That's certainly going to be among the reasons why mobile games tend to be released on iPhone first. Only one GPU target to test against there.

Mobile ports of games tapered off years ago.

They never even did GTA4 despite the hardware being capable of GTA 5 for quite some time now.

Initially I think it was just Android's apk system not being secure enough to prevent piracy, but perhaps eventually without Android sales too they didn't find it worth porting to mobile platforms at all.

It's a shame given how much mobile CPUs and GPUs have improved to the point that they almost certainly exceed what will be in Switch 2 on both fronts - we could easily have serious mobile gaming systems at this point.

IMHO Valve might even harbor thoughts along this line for the future once they are no longer forced to conform to Google or Apple's rules on their own proprietary app stores.

 

[FlameTail]

PowerVR is still their branding.

Didn't they move away from that?

 

[soresu]

Didn't they move away from that?

Not as far as I am aware.

 

[FlameTail]

Mobile ports of games tapered off years ago.

They never even did GTA4 despite the hardware being capable of GTA 5 for quite some time now.

Initially I think it was just Android's apk system not being secure enough to prevent piracy, but perhaps eventually without Android sales too they didn't find it worth porting to mobile platforms at all.

It's a shame given how much mobile CPUs and GPUs have improved to the point that they almost certainly exceed what will be in Switch 2 on both fronts - we could easily have serious mobile gaming systems at this point.

IMHO Valve might even harbor thoughts along this line for the future once they are no longer forced to conform to Google or Apple's rules on their own proprietary app stores.

Emulating PC games on mobile is a thing. There is Winlator. The gaming performance while being emulated through several layers is surprisingly good.

 

[FlameTail]

Not as far as I am aware.

See;

A-Series is the company’s 10th generation GPU architecture and represents a big leap for the company. Even something simple, like the product names, have changed. Gone is the longstanding PowerVR branding, in favor of a more immediate focus on Imagination the company. We'll still see PowerVR around – Imagination is keeping it to describe their technology, particularly their tile-based deferred rendering approach – but after over 20 years it's no longer a brand in and of itself.

Imagination Announces A-Series GPU Architecture: "Most Important Launch in 15 Years"

www.anandtech.com

 

[FlameTail]

More rumours: Tensor G5's Imagination GPU will be better than Adreno 830

It's difficult to judge how much water this rumour holds. We haven't had an Imagination GPU in a smartphone chip for years.

Looking at the specs we know, it has 1536 FP32 ALUs and a clock speed of 1.1 GHz, which is identical to that of the Adreno 830.

 

[DZero]

And here come the scores...
ST 1323
MT 4004

Comparing to others processors...
SD +7 Gen 3:
ST 1913
MT 5098

Dimensity 8300:
ST 1398
MT 4293


Yeah... Tensor will have a very hard time, seems that even TSMC can't help them.

 

[poke01]

So uhh, what’s the point if powerful GPU if your CPU is from the 1880.

At this point Google intentionally uses a bad cpu config on purpose to promote the idea that they don’t care about benchmarks and they like to cheap out too. What a waste of TSMC sillicon

 

[FlameTail]

FYI, that score is with the core at 2 GHz.

 

[moinmoin]

Mobile ports of games tapered off years ago.

They never even did GTA4 despite the hardware being capable of GTA 5 for quite some time now.

Initially I think it was just Android's apk system not being secure enough to prevent piracy, but perhaps eventually without Android sales too they didn't find it worth porting to mobile platforms at all.

It's a shame given how much mobile CPUs and GPUs have improved to the point that they almost certainly exceed what will be in Switch 2 on both fronts - we could easily have serious mobile gaming systems at this point.

IMHO Valve might even harbor thoughts along this line for the future once they are no longer forced to conform to Google or Apple's rules on their own proprietary app stores.

I think the markets are too clearly separated by the common input methods used. Consoles use controllers and more experimental inputs, PC use keyboard and mouse and are rather open to controllers, but mobile phones are all about touch control, with deviations from that as well as prices common in both consoles and PC have a hard time there.

 

[DZero]

I think the markets are too clearly separated by the common input methods used. Consoles use controllers and more experimental inputs, PC use keyboard and mouse and are rather open to controllers, but mobile phones are all about touch control, with deviations from that as well as prices common in both consoles and PC have a hard time there.

Well... Genshin Impact, WuWa and some other games shows that is possible to make good ports to mobile. And yeah, those are pretty good games, and shows how a port can be done. There is also Pascal's Wager which was decent enough and had a Switch version too.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I think the markets are too clearly separated by the common input methods used. Consoles use controllers and more experimental inputs, PC use keyboard and mouse and are rather open to controllers, but mobile phones are all about touch control, with deviations from that as well as prices common in both consoles and PC have a hard time there.

At least in Asian markets, phone controllers are pretty big. See ROG Phone accessories etc.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Honestly I side graded from a S23 Ultra to a Pixel 9 Pro XL and I notice zero difference in performance. Sure on paper it's slower than the 8 Gen 2 but in the real world I notice zero difference, and for most people that's all they care about. Only 1% of the population look at benchmarks.

I also don't even notice any difference between it and my wife's Iphone 15 Pro and the soc in that is significantly quicker on paper.

 

[moinmoin]

Well... Genshin Impact, WuWa and some other games shows that is possible to make good ports to mobile. And yeah, those are pretty good games, and shows how a port can be done. There is also Pascal's Wager which was decent enough and had a Switch version too.

Yeah, I'm not saying that no efforts exist that are not being rewarded by the markets. But Genshin Impact and Wuthering Waves are both PC first F2P games with stylized non-realistic graphics, that translates comparably well to mobile. I'd say that the exception not the rule.

And still Genshin Impact has room to improve controls wise on mobile, thinking of:

At least in Asian markets, phone controllers are pretty big. See ROG Phone accessories etc.

In public transportation I see plenty people playing with phones. I honestly can't recall the last time somebody did that with a gaming accessory. No idea about Asian markets though.

---

On topic, it's interesting that by using Imagination Google is pushing to keep viable another GPU manufacturer in mobile. Will be really interesting how all that plays out once even Nvidia with MediaTek joins the challenge next year.

 

[FlameTail]

On topic, it's interesting that by using Imagination Google is pushing to keep viable another GPU manufacturer in mobile. Will be really interesting how all that plays out once even Nvidia with MediaTek joins the challenge next year.

ARM isn't going to be happy if Mediatek switches to Nvidia GPU IP for their Dimensity smartphone SoCs.

Mediatek is really the last major SoC vendor who is still using ARM GPUs. Samsung switched to Xclipse (mRDNA) and Google is switching to Imagination.

 

[moinmoin]

ARM isn't going to be happy if Mediatek switches to Nvidia GPU IP for their Dimensity smartphone SoCs.

Mediatek is really the last major SoC vendor who is still using ARM GPUs. Samsung switched to Xclipse (mRDNA) and Google is switching to Imagination.

I'm actually not expecting MediaTek to move away from Arm GPU IP. But I do expect the Nvidia/MediaTek collaboration to extend from WoA to some high end phones, though not as SoCs, more likely MCMs like Intel's Hades Canyon.

 

[LightningZ71]

Honestly I side graded from a S23 Ultra to a Pixel 9 Pro XL and I notice zero difference in performance. Sure on paper it's slower than the 8 Gen 2 but in the real world I notice zero difference, and for most people that's all they care about. Only 1% of the population look at benchmarks.

I also don't even notice any difference between it and my wife's Iphone 15 Pro and the soc in that is significantly quicker on paper.

I have a vanilla Pixel 8 and, honestly, in the month that I've had it, I haven't run across a single CPU performance related issue. Granted, coming from a Samsung A52 5g, most any modern midrange is a big improvement, but, it's plenty fast enough for daily use.

 

[soresu]

ARM isn't going to be happy if Mediatek switches to Nvidia GPU IP for their Dimensity smartphone SoCs.

Mediatek is really the last major SoC vendor who is still using ARM GPUs. Samsung switched to Xclipse (mRDNA) and Google is switching to Imagination.

There are a bunch of other ARM SoC vendors out there like Amlogic, Rockchip, Allwinner etc.

Not to mention that even if Mediatek do switch to nVidia for some chips, they probably won't do so for all of them, as they do cover a very wide range of markets.

 

[MarkizSchnitzel]

If real people, actual end customers, don't care about smartphone SOC performance so long as it is "enough", why is everybody in the smartphone business chasing this?

I personally easily get by with Snapdragon 7+ levels of performance, and performance is my nr1 priority when buying (on a budget).

But, it makes no sense to charge more for such a phone, all else being equal.
In EU, Pixel 8 is significantly more expensive than the S24.
There is no value there and people are not buying it.

So, is google really that cheap that they are trying to squeeze a few bucks or what is going on?

 

[DZero]

If real people, actual end customers, don't care about smartphone SOC performance so long as it is "enough", why is everybody in the smartphone business chasing this?

I personally easily get by with Snapdragon 7+ levels of performance, and performance is my nr1 priority when buying (on a budget).

But, it makes no sense to charge more for such a phone, all else being equal.
In EU, Pixel 8 is significantly more expensive than the S24.
There is no value there and people are not buying it.

So, is google really that cheap that they are trying to squeeze a few bucks or what is going on?

The issue is that "enough" and latests Pixel processors weren't together. If the next iteration delivers a correct processor and GPU, it would be a win.

 

[gdansk]

If real people, actual end customers, don't care about smartphone SOC performance so long as it is "enough", why is everybody in the smartphone business chasing this?

I don't know what the split is but many people do care and for the many people who don't care it's not a negative unless it hurts battery life.

Google wanted their own SoC to lower cost and to integrate IP they had designed (TPU).