Discussion Google Tensor SoC thread

[soresu]

https://x.com/QaM_Section31/status/1717369147963916446?s=20

Tensor G3's CPU backend is designed by Google apparently.

What does this mean?

The same tweet says the GPU is credited to Google so some context is clearly missing from this information.

Perhaps it only means circuit placement on the lithography mask vs µArch design.

 

[FlameTail]

Power curves of Tensor G3 have been released by Geekerwan


It's not good

 

[LightningZ71]

G4 isn't likely to be much better...

 

[Nothingness]

Power curves of Tensor G3 have been released by Geekerwan

It's not good

That's an understatement.

 

[FlameTail]

Exynos 2400 seems decent though, especially the GPU. mRDNA shines

 

[FlameTail]

This redditor has made a nice post about Google Tensor:

https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/1dxa30e/a_note_on_the_tensor_g5_the_first_fully_custom

 

[FlameTail]

Tensor G3 die shot:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1799097967884083393

Node
Samsung SF4 (4LPP)

Die Area
10.71 x 12.62 = 135 mm²

The SoC is remarkably large (despite not having an integrated modem). The 16 MB SLC is bigger than Snapdragon 8G3 or Dimensity 9300. The TPU (Google's take on the NPU) also takes up a large amount of area.

 

[FlameTail]

As the OP of this thread, I have decided to rename this thread from "Google Tensor G3" to "Google Tensor SoC thread", so that the discussion may not be limited to only the the Tensor G3, but extended to all Google Tensor SoCs including future ones.

 

[FlameTail]

Google Tensor G4 rumours:

Pixel 9 leak reveals Tensor G4 specs, benchmarks

The leaked Pixel 9, 9 Pro, and 9 Pro XL have now been subjected to preliminary benchmarks, while we now have details on the Tensor G4...

9to5google.com

The regression in the "width" of the CPU is notable. The CPU component of the Tensor G4 looks more comparable to a midrange SoC from Qualcomm/Mediatek, instead of a flagship one.

 

[soresu]

The regression in the "width" of the CPU is notable

Regression compared to what exactly?

Tensor has never been a top end SoC compared to the best QC/MTK options.

As far as I can see there is no generational regression on that chart either.

 

[FlameTail]

Regression compared to what exactly?

As far as I can see there is no generational regression on that chart either

Tensor G3 was 1+4+4. According to this rumour, Tensor G4 will be 1+3+4. Clearly, a regression in the number of A7xx mid cores.

Meanwhile, Qualcomm/Mediatek/Samsung have been beefing up their CPUs in recent years;

8G1 = 1+3+4
8G2 = 1+4+3
8G3 = 1+5+2

I expected the Tensor G4 to upgrade to 1+5+4 (a configuration similar to it's distant relative born the same year- the Exynos 2400).

 

[soresu]

This redditor has made a nice post about Google Tensor:

https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/1dxa30e/a_note_on_the_tensor_g5_the_first_fully_custom

The Tensor G5 SoC will be the first fully in-house design by the Google Silicon Team, in contrast to the decade+ experience that Samsung LSI has in designing SoCs

This is ignoring the years of experience Google have designing silicon themselves.

They have their own general ARM server CPU chip Axion, several generations of their own AI/ML training and inference TPU chips (the latter of which integrated into the Tensor Gx SoCs), and their Argos VCU chips that handle Youtube encoding.

 

[soresu]

Tensor G3 was 1+4+4. According to this rumour, Tensor G4 will be 1+3+4. Clearly, a regression in the number of A7xx mid cores.

A7xx are not super big, but they are big enough to add extra cost increasing area and increase licensing costs to ARM per SoC.

They probably did a cost vs benefit analysis based on user use and determined it wasn't worth the extra.

Google are very price conscious with their Pixel phone line.

 

[FlameTail]

Google are very price conscious with their Pixel phone line

A tragedy for a lineup of phones that aspires to be 'the iPhone of Android'.

 

[soresu]

A tragedy for a lineup of phones that aspires to be 'the iPhone of Android'.

Journalists mark it as such more than Google themselves.

A far closer market comparison is Samsung/Android vs Apple/iOS, and that has always been the case.

The main point of Pixel is cost conscious build and standard Android software that updates pretty much the week Google announces each new version has gone gold.

Having suffered Samsung's Message app crashing my phone more than once it's beginning to feel like standard Android might be worth a hardware downgrade.

Not that my pokey Galaxy S21 FE is going to be that impressive vs Tensor G4.

 

[coercitiv]

Having suffered Samsung's Message app crashing my phone more than once it's beginning to feel like standard Android might be worth a hardware downgrade.

Not that my pokey Galaxy S21 FE is going to be that impressive vs Tensor G4.

I don't even remember how the default Phone, Contacts and SMS apps look on my S20 FE, changed to the Google ones very quickly after purchase. When it comes to the Pixel experience, not being able to remove the search bar from the homescreen felt like a petty thing to do from Google, and not being able to double-tap to turn on the screen is one of the more requested features that Google ignores because reasons. It's still easier to fix the Pixel software experience than the Samsung one, that's for sure.

 

[LightningZ71]

We're an Samsung Galaxy A52 5g family, up until recently. My wife's phone got to where it wouldn't charge unless you held the cable at a precise angle, with the moon in a particular phase, etc... and we replaced it with a Pixel 8a. I won't say that the phone is lightning fast as compared to the old one, but, it is consistently responsive, and the apps just consistently work. The Samsungs sometimes require killing and restarting apps, they can get really sluggish, and often get weirdness with wifi/cell communications.

The Pixel 8a is just better in every possible way, and is worth the modest extra amount they ask for it.

 

[FlameTail]

Google Tensor G4 leak:

Exclusive: Google Pixel 9’s Tensor G4 is the smallest upgrade to the series so far

The chip in the Google Pixel 9 chip is a very small upgrade over its predecessor, making the new exclusive features purely artifical locks.

www.androidauthority.com

G4 is a very minor upgrade, almost like a stopgap until next year's custom TSMC-manufactured G5 lands.

 

[FlameTail]

Kirin 9000S > Tensor G3

Oh dear.

For those who don't know, the Kirin 9000S is an SMIC manufactured chip.

 

[LightningZ71]

Not very shocking? G3 is fabbed on a Samsung node that's known for being underwhelming at best, using ARM cores that are at least a generation behind contemporaries and not aimed at absolute performance.

 

[FlameTail]

Not very shocking? G3 is fabbed on a Samsung node that's known for being underwhelming at best, using ARM cores that are at least a generation behind contemporaries and not aimed at absolute performance.

That graph not only speaks about Tensor's mediocrity, but also how surprisingly good the Huawei chip is.

 

[LightningZ71]

Can't translate, is that ST or MT score?

 

[gdansk]

Can't translate, is that ST or MT score?

I can't read it either but It does say GB5. For a score over 4000 it has to be MT. Or they're both really, really good.

 

[gai]

The title says 多核, which is multicore. You would see 単核 for single core (i.e. single thread).

 

[LightningZ71]

If it's single thread, while great, that's not overly impressive. You can sacrifice efficiency for performance in ST and not cause too many problems unless you hit thermal saturation. I'm interested to see their MT performance and actual die size compared. I suspect that they aren't too terribly far apart given the known qualities of Samsung's nodes.