Google Home or Amazon Echo?

[poofyhairguy]

What if you want to issue a voice command away from home?

Uh, the Google Assistant in the Pixel phone is exact same thing the Google Home has. Pretty soon every phone (including iPhones) will have Google Assistant.

In fact the system is really advanced in that if you have more than Google Assistant device around you the one closest to you will answer the query, and each of them communicate with the Home to relay commands when you are away from home or in another room.

 

[JackBurton]

Uh, the Google Assistant in the Pixel phone is exact same thing the Google Home has. Pretty soon every phone (including iPhones) will have Google Assistant.

In fact the system is really advanced in that if you have more than Google Assistant device around you the one closest to you will answer the query, and each of them communicate with the Home to relay commands when you are away from home or in another room.

You mean the phone that was JUST released? That's a pretty small market. HomeKit on the other hand works with just about all iPhones, iPads, Apple Watches and Macs (seamlessly). And no, Google Assistant is a fail on any iOS device. It will require an app, which is a step backwards in automation. Apps suck, which is why I invested in HomeKit in the first place. If I want to turn on a light, I don't want to unlock my phone and launch an app. Or unlock my phone, launch an app only to issue a voice command. That's just dumb and a big fail. Google Assistant's only REAL option is on Google/Android devices (for remote voice commands). Forget about iPhones.

Now where Google shines is in its AI. They are way beyond Siri's capabilities. If I wanted something to give me answers to random questions, Google Assistant or Alexa would be my choice (I'm betting Google with surpassed Alexa in the near future). For home automation on a secure platform though, it's HomeKit all day long.

 

[Darwin333]

Yes. Information isn't being recorded...it's only being processed when a keyword activates the connection, and after that it only stays active for a few seconds.

If they wanted to record everything you said, the amount of data would be too large to handle...not to mention turning all of that metadata into something usable. There wouldn't be enough payoff to have someone listen to millions of people all the time.

Why would they need people to listen to it? The proof that it recognizes the words you say is in the fact that it works. And too much information to handle, it's audio files so I don't really see how that would be an issue.

 

[Darwin333]

Unless you're looking for something very specific from a specific group, that's still way too much data to handle for a marketing payoff. The NSA does things like this on a group of people that have raised flags, and even then the amount of data they have to sort through is incredible.

People get this image of a guy in a datacenter with a wall of monitors watching and listening to everything you do. This COULD happen if it involved 10, 50, even 100 people. For MILLIONS though, it would be very unwieldy. You'd spend more on the huge data center to handle all of that data than you would gain in ultra-directed marketing based on conversation.

The computer/service/device understands the words you are saying and even the context. Why would you need some guy listening to the actual conversation? You would just need a way to store the data, which I don't think would be nearly as big as you think it would be, and search through the data for the information relevant to you. Google is pretty good at both of those things, kind of their bread and butter actually.

I'm not saying it IS happening or trying to jump on any conspiracy bandwagon, just that the thought of it being relatively easy for them, or someone else, to do without your knowledge is a bit troublesome to me.

 

[JackBurton]

Yes. Information isn't being recorded...it's only being processed when a keyword activates the connection, and after that it only stays active for a few seconds.

If they wanted to record everything you said, the amount of data would be too large to handle...not to mention turning all of that metadata into something usable. There wouldn't be enough payoff to have someone listen to millions of people all the time.

You probably want to give the documentary, CitizenFour a watch.

 

[OutHouse]

no thanks, having a always on, always listening "internet of devices" in my house creeps me out.

its the ultimate keylogger.

 

[OutHouse]

Yes. Information isn't being recorded...

not according to Amazon.

The recordings are streamed and stored remotely, and can be reviewed or deleted over time, Amazon says.

Cops want recordings for murder case.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/28/tech/amazon-echo-alexa-bentonville-arkansas-murder-case-trnd/

 

[Fritzo]

not according to Amazon.



Cops want recordings for murder case.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/28/tech/amazon-echo-alexa-bentonville-arkansas-murder-case-trnd/

No, it doesn't record without the wake word. You need the full quote:

"According to Amazon, Echo works by constantly listening for the "wake word" -- "Alexa" or "Amazon," by default -- and then records your voice and transfers it to a processor for analysis so that it can fulfill requests or answer questions. The recordings are streamed and stored remotely, and can be reviewed or deleted over time, Amazon says."

 

[Fritzo]

You probably want to give the documentary, CitizenFour a watch.

There's a difference between govt intelligence and a business collecting marketing data. A business wants to make money...and too much meta data is not a profitable venture without some kind of context.

 

[OutHouse]

No, it doesn't record without the wake word. You need the full quote:

"According to Amazon, Echo works by constantly listening for the "wake word" -- "Alexa" or "Amazon," by default -- and then records your voice and transfers it to a processor for analysis so that it can fulfill requests or answer questions. The recordings are streamed and stored remotely, and can be reviewed or deleted over time, Amazon says."

yea i know. but i had to do a few Blackhat seminars last year and devices like this creep me out. Yes my paranoid factor was raised quite a bit after those seminars.

I love gadgets, but i dont think ill have one of these gadgets in my home anytime soon.

 

[FelixDeCat]

This is why I sit here in my safe space with no Google or Amazon device .....yet.

http://nymag.com/selectall/2016/12/can-an-amazon-echo-testify-against-you.html

Can an Amazon Echo Testify Against You?

Amazon’s Echo (and its main competitor, the Google Home) works by passively recording everything you say. None of this information is actually sent to Amazon. Think of it more like taking notes in class — as if you’re listening but not writing anything down until your professor actually says something important. But when the Echo hears “Alexa” (or whatever your activation phrase is), it begins to actively record. That snippet of speech is then sent to Amazon’s cloud servers, where your recorded message is run through a speech-recognition neural network and a response is sent back to you, whether that’s playing a song on Spotify or giving you the weather forecast.

Amazon keeps all of the recordings of you asking Alexa to play WNYC or of you setting a timer for 20 minutes. You can jump into the Alexa companion app and hear all of your requests again if you want to see just how bored you sound when talking to your home voice robot. Sure, it’s slightly creepy — but Amazon also tracks pretty much every move you make while you’re online shopping as well.

Court records show that Amazon twice declined to turn the actual voice-search queries over to the local police, though it also did not comment to the Information about the case in question. For what it’s worth, anecdotally, I’ve heard from a professor who works in voice research that Amazon deletes all voice data after six months — but Amazon has no stated policy about how long it holds onto that data. Still, if any of this has you feeling uneasy about your Amazon Echo, you can always head to amazon.com/myx, find your Echo, and delete out all of your old voice recordings.

In the above case, police confiscated the Echo itself and attempted to extract data from it, but it’s unclear how much they could get — the Echo itself doesn’t have much of a hard drive and almost no information is stored locally on it.

Doesn't Google store your searches? I don't stay logged in to browsers but clear search histories on occasion. It is interesting to go back in time however and see what you looked for a few years ago.

 

[sportage]

I just want one of these things to make and receive calls like a speaker phone.
CALL JOE. DIAL 1234567890. ANSWER CALL. etc.
Is that so much to ask of Amazon? Google?

I know about IFTTT but not interested in that route.
And I don't really care if the invisible boogie man is listening.
As far as I know, there could be someone from the CIA hiding in my closet right now. Doesn't bother me.
Would explain why my Häagen-Dazs Mint Chip keeps disappearing.
And who really cares if I slipped grandma a mickey then buried the old bat in the backyard? If you knew granny like I know granny, you would have easily done the same.

As far as Echo vs Google Home, its true Echo has been around longer but Amazon has done little to expand the scope of Echo other than provide more ease when ordering crap off of Amazon.
Or allowing Echo to read a book, where you also need a paid subscription to Audible.com.

I want to see some hard core features added to these devices.
The Echo is good for what its worth, but I feel Amazon has topped out with adding real usable features.
And the problem with home control is not with the Echo or Google home itself. The problem is with the home control "devices" failing to live up to the hype.
And the companies that manufacture these home control devices are not as dedicated and invested into the effort as Amazon and Google, resulting in a less than desirable overall experience.

I just bought a few Google Home gadgets for testing vs Amazon Echo.
One feature I do like with the Goo-Home is the ability to redirect music to an additional HOME device elsewhere in the house.
Helps get those sleeping kids out of bed in the mornings.
No need to yell down the hall or bang on the door.
Now THAT's an "I'm too lazy" useful productive feature.
Saves steps, yelling, and time.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I'd rather implement something like this myself with a Raspberry PI or something and know it's not spying on me. Whenever I decide to overhaul my home automation system so it's more modular and expandable, I may look into what kind of Linux libraries are available to code a Siri/Alexa etc like program. As far as controlling stuff around the house go it would actually be fairly simple, provided there is such library that makes it easy to actually recognize the voice. That is the part that is really the most advanced. If you can end up with text strings of speech then it's just the thing of parsing it out and processing it.

Do these things typically distinct between different people's voices? Would be cool if it actually did accurately and you can set different accesses based on the person. Except if you get a cold then it won't authorize anything you ask it to do lol.

"I'm sorry dave, I'm afraid I can't do that"

 

[Murloc]

yea i know. but i had to do a few Blackhat seminars last year and devices like this creep me out. Yes my paranoid factor was raised quite a bit after those seminars.

I love gadgets, but i dont think ill have one of these gadgets in my home anytime soon.

I'd rather implement something like this myself with a Raspberry PI or something and know it's not spying on me. Whenever I decide to overhaul my home automation system so it's more modular and expandable, I may look into what kind of Linux libraries are available to code a Siri/Alexa etc like program. As far as controlling stuff around the house go it would actually be fairly simple, provided there is such library that makes it easy to actually recognize the voice. That is the part that is really the most advanced. If you can end up with text strings of speech then it's just the thing of parsing it out and processing it.

Do these things typically distinct between different people's voices? Would be cool if it actually did accurately and you can set different accesses based on the person. Except if you get a cold then it won't authorize anything you ask it to do lol.

"I'm sorry dave, I'm afraid I can't do that"

What do you think of Mycroft and Jasper?

They also support totally offline speech-to-text and are open source.
I've never tried them but it looks like an interesting alternative.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Never heard of those but definitely something to keep in mind if/when I decide to pursue this further.

 

[Bubblehappy]

I bought my Echo last month. I put it in my kitchen, and I just love it. Of course, I do a lot of cooking so I spend a pretty fair amount of time there. It's a very useful device!

 

[Skel]

yea i know. but i had to do a few Blackhat seminars last year and devices like this creep me out. Yes my paranoid factor was raised quite a bit after those seminars.

I love gadgets, but i dont think ill have one of these gadgets in my home anytime soon.

I'm always paranoid about these type of devices after I read up on a few Blackhat things. What I do find more disturbing is some friends who were so vocal about the Kinnect listening to turn itself on were having the same discussion on which one of these to get. While I get that MS has a very sketchy track record, it blows my mind how people are flipping the script for these devices. Somehow it's now OK, even though these devices are doing the same thing.

 

[slag]

I would like a feature called "recipe mode" you can set it by saying "OG, go into recipe mode". Then tell it to find a recipe for something in particular, or feed it a url to go to, and it will read back, line by line, of the steps to make something. You can give it verbal prompts to continue to the next line after you've done that part. Then, when you are done, you could turn recipe mode off. That way, you don't have to pull the recipe up on your phone or tablet. That's my biggest pet peeve when my phone or tablet goes back into sleep mode and I need to turn it back on when I have dirty hands when I'm trying to follow a recipe or "how to" on how to do something.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I'm always paranoid about these type of devices after I read up on a few Blackhat things. What I do find more disturbing is some friends who were so vocal about the Kinnect listening to turn itself on were having the same discussion on which one of these to get. While I get that MS has a very sketchy track record, it blows my mind how people are flipping the script for these devices. Somehow it's now OK, even though these devices are doing the same thing.

What's scary is the fact that most people have the "nothing to hide" mentality. Everything these days is trying to spy on us, whether it's physical spying such as voice and video, or more virtual spying such as what you do online. It's sickening that people think this is ok. There should be riots over this stuff. Privacy should be a right.

The super scary one is the backdoor in Intel and AMD CPUs. This runs at a very low level and can pretty much access anything in your computer even if it's behind a firewall. Heck even if it's not plugged into the internet, as it has a 3G backup radio.

 

[poofyhairguy]

The super scary one is the backdoor in Intel and AMD CPUs. This runs at a very low level and can pretty much access anything in your computer even if it's behind a firewall. Heck even if it's not plugged into the internet, as it has a 3G backup radio.

Link?

 

[Red Squirrel]

Link?

Here's a few:
https://popularresistance.org/new-intel-based-pcs-permanently-hackable/
http://www.infowars.com/91497/
https://fossbytes.com/intel-processor-backdoor-management-engine/

More (just a web search that reveals lot of different sources) :
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=intel+backdoor&t=h_&ia=web

Most of this is somewhat speculation as it's based on info that is fairly top secret, but the fact that it's so top secret does make it fairly safe to assume it's something that's up to no good. Intel does not want to talk about it when asked. Possibly due to an NDA.

I don't know enough about sillicon level circuits, but I wonder if one could manage to carefully open up a cpu to reveil all layers (if more than one) of sillicon wafers, and actually analyze them to find out. I imagine something like the 3G capability could be confirmed or denied by someone well versed in micro electronics.

Only thing, is it possible to physically look at actual data, like binaries when looking at cpus visually? I'm not expert enough at how stuff works at that level to know for sure. If it's not possible, then a lot could still be hidden in binary blobs/programs. ex: if there is a FPGA in there is it possible to actually look at the logic gates that are programmed in?

 

[Skel]

What's scary is the fact that most people have the "nothing to hide" mentality. Everything these days is trying to spy on us, whether it's physical spying such as voice and video, or more virtual spying such as what you do online. It's sickening that people think this is ok. There should be riots over this stuff. Privacy should be a right.

The super scary one is the backdoor in Intel and AMD CPUs. This runs at a very low level and can pretty much access anything in your computer even if it's behind a firewall. Heck even if it's not plugged into the internet, as it has a 3G backup radio.

I do find myself surprised, but I keep having to remind myself that I shouldn't be. I remember a couple of years ago some group did a poll where the people were asked if they were provided an mobile phone plan that was completely free but it meant that the Government would be recording and keeping all data and voice from it. While I can't remember the exact number, it was overwhelmingly the majority that would go for it. It reminded me that people are gullible for 'free' crap.

 

[Imp]

.....IT.... BEGINS!

Someone set up two Google Homes, supposedly, to talk to each other non stop. It's a Twitch channel? Go google Seebotschat.

 

[Fritzo]

What's scary is the fact that most people have the "nothing to hide" mentality. Everything these days is trying to spy on us, whether it's physical spying such as voice and video, or more virtual spying such as what you do online. It's sickening that people think this is ok. There should be riots over this stuff. Privacy should be a right.

The super scary one is the backdoor in Intel and AMD CPUs. This runs at a very low level and can pretty much access anything in your computer even if it's behind a firewall. Heck even if it's not plugged into the internet, as it has a 3G backup radio.

I get your concern, but my response is "OK, say they're collecting all this data...what would they DO with it?" 99.9% of people's Internet traffic is most likely things like posting memes, complaining about politics, asking your spouse what they want for dinner, etc. All of this recorded data gets lost in the crowd, and it's only really useful for figuring out trends. These trends come in the form of targeted advertising...which doesn't really both me (it's how these companies make income to give away free services).

Yes, I know, there's been cases of directed attacks on people based on data collected by companies. But, looking at the amount of data out there, these cases are actually very rare.

If they were using collected data for something like ethnic cleansing or military interrogation, sure, there would be outrage. That's not going to happen though.

 

[Craig234]

If you're paranoid, you shouldn't be interested in any of them...

There's nothing like opening an app and seeing all the commands you gave, maybe some more, and realizing everything said in your home could be logged.