Google exec blasts Apple's "Disneyfied" approach to internet

[QueBert]

That's fine an dandy, but the situation will be different in a few years. This isn't going to be a redux of the iPod, where Apple established and held a commanding lead in the PMP market.

The iPhone, in the US, is stalling out at 25%. Even the six-feet-under old WinMo platform still has 15% of the market, and that's before Win7Mo comes out. Android only has 7%, but as a percentage gain it more than doubled its market share and has the industry-wide adoption. Apple/ATT as the sole iPhone provider cannot compete against an army of Android phones from Samsung/LG/HTC/Motorola for ATT/Verizon/Sprint/TMobile that will fight for shelf space and carrier contracts.

The iPhone can compete, you're saying 25% like it's small. That's a single phone on a single carrier. No other single phone comes close. There are dozens of WinMo phones *I own one* I would hope 20+ phones combined would have a decent amount of the market. The App store alone will keep Apple doing extremely well. 25% for 1 phone is damn impressive, even if it drops to 20% they're not worried at all. They're not trying to be #1, same as the PC/Mac thing. the 6% market share they have is plenty. There will never be a single smartphone on the market that will compete with the iPhone. It will take an army of different Android phones to match what Apple does with 1. And if the rumors are true and Verizon is getting some sort of Apple phone in 2011, that will push their 20%'ish to probably 35 or more. for 2 phones? wow

 

[foghorn67]

If you count the first 74 days of sales, the Droid outsold the iPhone.

 

[theeedude]

Even with Apple controlling which apps you can use. A person still has 100 times the selection of any other phone, even ones that have a completely open app store. And since the Apple App store is so much more popular than any other. The developers are fighting each other to get their apps out first. Also I've never had a single app fuck up my phone up, where I had to do a hard reset on my WinMo phone multiple times due to shitty apps that got released with no testing. Apple did the App store right. I can't think of any I'm left wanting on my iPhone.

Like I said, Apple is great if you want the hardware maker deciding what network you use, what apps you get to run, and what web sites you get to render.

 

[TheStu]

If you count the first 74 days of sales, the Droid outsold the iPhone.

I did count the first 74 days of sales, and I did note that the Droid outsold the iPhone.

I imagine that it could be argued that the Droid had a bit of a ground softening for its launch, 2 years after the iPhone, people were already ok with the idea of a big touch screen device that cost hundreds of dollars, and the bad press that AT&T had gotten regarding their network made them wary of AT&T and eager to go to Verizon.

All of that said, the Droid looks like a great device and I can't wait to get my hands on one once my contract issues with Verizon are sorted, and I am glad that it has sold so well, it keeps the pressure on the other players.

 

[dwell]

Like I said, Apple is great if you want the hardware maker deciding what network you use, what apps you get to run, and what web sites you get to render.

What sites can you not render on the iPhone that you can on Android?

 

[rudeguy]

What sites can you not render on the iPhone that you can on Android?

pretty sure he is referring to flash based sites.



Also...I wasn't trying to dog Apple. I like it when companies call other companies out. Right now the reality is that the consumer smart phone market is basically Apple vs Android. Heck....it would be great if Apple came back with an "at least we're better than BlackBerry" comment.

Get some of the suit's tempers up!

 

[dwell]

pretty sure he is referring to flash based sites.

Thought the same, but until Flash 10.1 comes to Android this is not true. And the fact is that the Flash update most likely will never make it to most of the current Android phones.

 

[rudeguy]

Thought the same, but until Flash 10.1 comes to Android this is not true. And the fact is that the Flash update most likely will never make it to most of the current Android phones.

now now....I'm pretty sure flash will hit Android before or shortly after Duke Nukem Forever hits store shelves.

 

[Cuda1447]

There's more to Android than just buying their phones. Didnt anyone take into account that someone who uses an Android device (with excellent google integration) is MUCH more likely to use google apps. (Google Calender, Google News, Google Voice etc...)

The more people that have Android, the more people that use Google products. Even if AT&T rips google off the phone, at the end of the day what did Google lose by offering their OS on some phones by AT&T? Nothing. They probably are making a bit of money off of it.

In a few years Android will be the dominant device in terms of Marketshare and that's ultimately what matters. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt, as someone who works in the wireless industry, that more and more customers are asking for Android. It used to be always about the Iphone. Thats all anyone wanted. That is most certainly not the case anymore. Sure, people still want it, but a lot of people come in LOOKING for Android.

As far as comparing Iphone sales to Nexus sales... well that's pretty silly. Let's think about what Google actually wanted to do. Essentially there is no difference between the Nexus and a Moto Droid as far as google is concerned, other than the fact that the Droid is being sold by Verizon and not directly by Google. At the end of the day though, all of Google's integration is there. So while you can point the the Droid and say look.... 1.05 Million units. Well guess what, thats a GOOD thing for Google. Sure, the Nexus sales are small. Do you think Google wanted to make a huge splash, or just use it as a beta launch to test their online store for future use? Hmm... launch the phone on the smallest major carrier, make it very difficult to get the phone subsidized. Don't offer it in stores. Don't advertise. What do you think? It doesn't take a genius to figure out that it was a test and they didnt plan, nor did they want to sell a lot of this phone.

 

[TheWart]

I think Apple cares more about $$ than marketshare. Not that the two are not obviously linked, but if Apple can continue to rake in cash but has less marketshare than Android, I don't think they would give a hoot.

It seems to me that the execs at Apple are pretty savvy, so I doubt that they really expected/expect to dominate the smartphone market like the mp3 player market. Instead, they command 1/4 of an exponentially valuable and growing marketspace....which means mega $$$$

 

[Pliablemoose]

Instead, they command 1/4 of an exponentially valuable and growing marketspace....which means mega $$$$

Yep, thats one of the other factors that everyone keeps overlooking when simply looking at marketshare, the market is growing and will continue to grow for some time...

 

[jpeyton]

They're not trying to be #1, same as the PC/Mac thing.

Good, because they won't be #1.

There will never be a single smartphone on the market that will compete with the iPhone.

Slurp slurp slurp.

And if the rumors are true and Verizon is getting some sort of Apple phone in 2011, that will push their 20%'ish to probably 35 or more. for 2 phones? wow

The rumors said 2009, then 2010. Now 2011? Why bother. With Android surging in popularity, Verizon doesn't need to fill Apple's coffers with an exclusivity deal and bend over backwards to please El Jobso like AT&T has done. Between high end Android sets from Motorola and HTC, and Win7Mo sets at the end of this year, Verizon won't have any trouble selling smart phones like hotcakes.

 

[QueBert]

Like I said, Apple is great if you want the hardware maker deciding what network you use, what apps you get to run, and what web sites you get to render.

What web site can the Android view that my iPhone can't? Ironically I can think of flash sites that have made iPhone compatible versions to overcome the lack of Flash on the iPhone. So if you want to get technical, there will more sites that aren't viewable on the Droid. And they're not deciding what network I use, wait what other network can I use a Moto Droid on again? But that's not the same thing right? It's only a point to bring up when Apple does it, Motorola gets a pass here.

Meanwhile I'll be using my iPhone on TMOBILE, have fun trying to use a Droid on anything besides Verizon.

 

[zerogear]

QueBert is extremely.. defensive.

 

[dwell]

Good, because they won't be #1.

Does Google get a cookie or something if Android becomes #1? I mean, what's the point of saturating the market with an open source operating system if you're not directly getting revenue from it.

Android very well be #1 at some point, but it does it matter when there's a craptasic AT&T fork, the Verizon fork, T-Mobile, etc? I don't see how it's any different than Linux with the distro stew situation.

 

[jpeyton]

Does Google get a cookie or something if Android becomes #1? I mean, what's the point of saturating the market with an open source operating system if you're not directly getting revenue from it.

Jesus H. Christ. Let's try this again.

Google generates profits on ad sales, not operating system sales.

Mobile web access is where the market is heading, and mobile web ads are the new frontier.

Google doesn't want Apple to be the gatekeeper of a large portion of mobile web traffic. While Apple may currently be a close partner with Google, Apple has also shown no hesitation to censor or remove access to whatever they see as a threat. Rejecting the Google Voice app was only casting the first stone.

Google introduces a free, open-source mobile operating system to ensure that doesn't happen.

 

[dwell]

Jesus H. Christ. Let's try this again.

Google generates profits on ad sales, not operating system sales.

Mobile web access is where the market is heading, and mobile web ads are the new frontier.

Google doesn't want Apple to be the gatekeeper of a large portion of mobile web traffic. While Apple may currently be a close partner with Google, Apple has also shown no hesitation to censor or remove access to whatever they see as a threat. Rejecting the Google Voice app was only casting the first stone.

Google introduces a free, open-source mobile operating system to ensure that doesn't happen.

And for the last (fucking) time, there is absolutely no stipulation that Google products and services have to be in an Android install at all. Sprint can release an "Android" phone with all Google apps removed and the default search engine changed to Bing. Your argument makes zero sense.

If Google didn't want anyone else to become the "gatekeeper" of the internet, they'd release a kick-ass phone that's locked down to Google. That is not what Android is. You can bet your ass that Windows 7 Series Phone will be locked down to Microsoft/Bing.

To my original point, Google's problem is that they are an operation run by engineers and people who think like engineers. When it comes to gauging individuals and consumer markets they are a big bag of fail. The fragmented mess Android is about to become will be proof of this.

 

[theeedude]

What web site can the Android view that my iPhone can't? Ironically I can think of flash sites that have made iPhone compatible versions to overcome the lack of Flash on the iPhone. So if you want to get technical, there will more sites that aren't viewable on the Droid. And they're not deciding what network I use, wait what other network can I use a Moto Droid on again? But that's not the same thing right? It's only a point to bring up when Apple does it, Motorola gets a pass here.

Meanwhile I'll be using my iPhone on TMOBILE, have fun trying to use a Droid on anything besides Verizon.

I can get another Android phone and use it on TMobile. There is competition between devices and between networks, good for consumer. iPhone has neither. You are locked to AT&T and stuck behind the Great Firewall of Apple, where your daddy Steve decides what apps you can use and what plugins websites you visit can use. I am sure he has your best interest in mind, not locking you into the App Store. Android is going to come with Flash 10.1, which will let it render websites that Apple can't. I am not in line to get Droid either, I think there will be even better Android devices coming out this year. That's what happens when you have open competition between hardware makers.

 

[jpeyton]

And for the last (fucking) time, there is absolutely no stipulation that Google products and services have to be in an Android install at all.

There's no stipulation against Google products (such as a Google Voice app) either.

Sprint can release an "Android" phone with all Google apps removed and the default search engine changed to Bing. Your argument makes zero sense.

It makes a lot of sense. Apple bought Quattro Wireless and Google bought AdMob. What incentive does Apple have to give AdMob a fair shake over their own mobile advertising firm? Zero. What incentive does Sprint have to give both AdMob and Quattro a fair shake? Tons.

If Google didn't want anyone else to become the "gatekeeper" of the internet, they'd release a kick-ass phone that's locked down to Google.

Google doesn't want to be the gatekeeper. They want no gatekeeper. If they released a locked down single network phone like Apple, we wouldn't be seeing Android's huge levels of growth right now.

You can bet your ass that Windows 7 Series Phone will be locked down to Microsoft/Bing.

Of course. But again, more strong players in the market means more competition.

To my original point, Google's problem is that they are an operation run by engineers and people who think like engineers. When it comes to gauging individuals and consumer markets they are a big bag of fail. The fragmented mess Android is about to become will be proof of this.

Windows is a fragmented mess, too. The PC install base has machines running everything from Win98 through Win7, with different drivers and program compatibility for each version. That hasn't stopped Windows from becoming the dominant force in the PC market, and if anything proves that even a fragmented Android install base can succeed.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Meanwhile I'll be using my iPhone on TMOBILE, have fun trying to use a Droid on anything besides Verizon, while I crawl along using EDGE like it's still 2004.

:awe:

 

[hanoverphist]

Good, because they won't be #1.


Slurp slurp slurp.


The rumors said 2009, then 2010. Now 2011? Why bother. With Android surging in popularity, Verizon doesn't need to fill Apple's coffers with an exclusivity deal and bend over backwards to please El Jobso like AT&T has done. Between high end Android sets from Motorola and HTC, and Win7Mo sets at the end of this year, Verizon won't have any trouble selling smart phones like hotcakes.

i have heard from a friend "in the know" that there will be no dissolution of the att partnership anytime soon, even when their contract ends (which is supposed to be june). i dont usually care to listen to rumors from people, but this guy actually works for apple and has a bit of pull.

as for vzw selling smart phones like hotcakes, they will have to do a better job than they did for their winmo phones for sure. the omnia and omnia 2 werent advertised at ALL until after they were available for weeks. even then, they barely get rotation on their website. it was droid fever the whole time, and even when i asked about the omnia 2 they tried to redirect me to the droid. even argued with me about the droid being far superior to the omnia2 for all kinds of reasons. i left, told the guy i wasnt going to get a phone from someone that insists on arguing with me about everything.

What web site can the Android view that my iPhone can't? Ironically I can think of flash sites that have made iPhone compatible versions to overcome the lack of Flash on the iPhone. So if you want to get technical, there will more sites that aren't viewable on the Droid. And they're not deciding what network I use, wait what other network can I use a Moto Droid on again? But that's not the same thing right? It's only a point to bring up when Apple does it, Motorola gets a pass here.

ive been watching flash content on my winmo 6.1 phone for a year now. what does that matter? flash wont be the end point decision on which is the better phone. for what its worth, i have not cooked my phone, and the only additions i made to its base os are size tweaks and volume levels. the apps i use are pretty stable, and undoing crappy apps is a simple process for the most part. ive tried every available interface replacement, app launcher, lock program and most every silly app i can find and have never had to hard reset my phone. its been running with the samsung today 2 interface for months, and i havent soft reset it for almost 2 months. last time i did was to save battery, not due to a rogue app or anything. winmo may be crap in lots of people eyes, and i agree it takes a specific type to use it, but it isnt the crapfest people seem to make it out to be. if the "powers that be" had done a better job on the polish and fluff for winmo, as well as an ad machine running the size that android and iphone have, winmo would have been a much more used os, regardless of its shortcomings.

 

[zerocool84]

QueBert is extremely.. defensive.

because he thinks Apple can do no wrong. I'd rather not buy a phone that I have to "hack" to have something as basic as multitasking and tells me what apps are ok for me to have access to and tries to brick my phone that I legally paid for or even have the option for a spare battery. Plus I won't have to use god awful iTunes.

 

[tatteredpotato]

And for the last (fucking) time, there is absolutely no stipulation that Google products and services have to be in an Android install at all. Sprint can release an "Android" phone with all Google apps removed and the default search engine changed to Bing.

Yes that can and very well may happen, but I'm willing to bet there will continue to be a vast majority of Android phones coming compatible with all of Google's services.

Google isn't afraid of an Android phone shipped without it's services, but it is afraid of a platform (like the iPhone) banning it's services (like Apple has done).

Apple's ban of Google Voice and the rumored switch to Bing as default search is exactly the reason for Android. Google counts on the fact that if consumers have a choice they will win out, however the need to guarantee consumers do have a choice.

 

[TheWart]

Yes that can and very well may happen, but I'm willing to bet there will continue to be a vast majority of Android phones coming compatible with all of Google's services.

Google isn't afraid of an Android phone shipped without it's services, but it is afraid of a platform (like the iPhone) banning it's services (like Apple has done).

Apple's ban of Google Voice and the rumored switch to Bing as default search is exactly the reason for Android. Google counts on the fact that if consumers have a choice they will win out, however the need to guarantee consumers do have a choice.

I am gonna go out on a limb and say Android was in development weeeellllll before the GV fiasco.

 

[dwell]

Google isn't afraid of an Android phone shipped without it's services, but it is afraid of a platform (like the iPhone) banning it's services (like Apple has done).

Apple's ban of Google Voice and the rumored switch to Bing as default search is exactly the reason for Android. Google counts on the fact that if consumers have a choice they will win out, however the need to guarantee consumers do have a choice.

AT&T pushed for the ban of Google Voice. The Bing rumor never turned out, it's BS. The iPhone uses more Google services out of the box (Maps, YouTube, Search) than most non-Android phones out there.